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Halo: MCC is definitely a black eye for us - Frank O'Connor

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There is not a chance I will be caving in and giving 343 anymore of my money.

No matter how much hype there is, or positive reviews post launch

 

343 lost me as a customer after H4/MCC/lack of communication/no transparency/no honesty/lying to its customer/still broken game/abilities pushed on h5/COD influence/nothing but forge maps/immersion/zero originality & innovation/must I go on?

You're kind of cutting off your nose to spite your face a little there eh?  

 

Not buying H5 on launch out of principle is fine.  Lower those first week sales numbers so it sends a message.  I get it.

But NEVER buying the game at all no matter what?  Even if it turns out to kick total ass?  That's just denying yourself many hours of fun out of spite, in the hope of sending a message to 343 that they are never going to receive.  And even if they do, and its the reason that their future games are great, you would never reap the rewards.

 

When you really analyze the spiteful "Im never going to do this cuz, well... fuck them" mentality, nobody really wins....  :(

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I have one of those Virtual Boy's sitting on a book case...

 

Let's just say, if you are bothering to collect one of these, might as well live on Ramen for the next two months because it's going to set you back.

 

I think there were less than a thousand units built?

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Shit happens loads of time. example: garden warfare was all the hype when it was released on the forums, well where the fuck is it now?

Garden Warfare is my shit and I play it more than MCC

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I'd love to see a "343 employees read mean tweets" video, the :salt:  would be real.

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You're kind of cutting off your nose to spite your face a little there eh?

 

Not buying H5 on launch out of principle is fine. Lower those first week sales numbers so it sends a message. I get it.

But NEVER buying the game at all no matter what? Even if it turns out to kick total ass? That's just denying yourself many hours of fun out of spite, in the hope of sending a message to 343 that they are never going to receive. And even if they do, and its the reason that their future games are great, you would never reap the rewards.

 

When you really analyze the spiteful "Im never going to do this cuz, well... fuck them" mentality, nobody really wins.... :(

I don't care how awesome it is, I'm never buying it. I don't think I really need to worry about the game becoming awesome per fluke chance, though.

 

343 knew we the competitive community would react this way. They knew it would split us. They knew our members (particularly the ones who have playing the games the longest) would get shoehorned out of the franchise.

 

I am not a part of the intended demographic, so I will not purchase it. It's really simple.

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I don't care how awesome it is, I'm never buying it. I don't think I really need to worry about the game becoming awesome per fluke chance, though.

 

343 knew we the competitive community would react this way. They knew it would split us. They knew our members (particularly the ones who have playing the games the longest) would get shoehorned out of the franchise.

 

I am not a part of the intended demographic, so I will not purchase it. It's really simple.

 

 

Hmm ok.  I don't think 343 knew any of that.  They certainly knew that MCC was broken before launch, so im pissed at them for that but that doesn't have any bearing on the development or quality of Halo 5.

 

It's clear that your opinion will not be changed, so i'm not trying to fight about it, but making that decision before seeing the final product seems... misguided.  Convictions are convictions I suppose, 

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Hmm ok. I don't think 343 knew any of that. They certainly knew that MCC was broken before launch, so im pissed at them for that but that doesn't have any bearing on the development or quality of Halo 5.

 

It's clear that your opinion will not be changed, so i'm not trying to fight about it, but making that decision before seeing the final product seems... misguided. Convictions are convictions I suppose,

You seriously think that they weren't fully aware that sprint, ads, thruster, and ground pound would cause divisions among us?

 

I don't feel like pandering around, so I'll just spell this out:

 

They knew, and they probably predicted that the changes would help introduce more new players to the franchise and generate more sales than they would if they tried to focus on facilitating the growth of the competitive community by making a game more in the style of h1, or even h2c. Those predictions are probably literally on a spreadsheet on some 343 market analysts computer.

 

I am willing to compromise on a lot of things I do in life, but buying a subpar game simply for the sake of supporting a company that consistently marginalizes our community is not one of those things.

 

I'd rather spend my energy supporting H1 and H2c until their last dying breath. I'll have a lot more fun doing that than giving 343 positive feedback for making a new space cod.

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You seriously think that they weren't fully aware that sprint, ads, thruster, and ground pound would cause divisions among us?

 

I don't feel like pandering around, so I'll just spell this out:

 

They knew, and they probably predicted that the changes would help introduce more new players to the franchise and generate more sales than they would if they tried to focus on facilitating the growth of the competitive community by making a game more in the style of h1, or even h2c. Those predictions are probably literally on a spreadsheet on some 343 market analysts computer.

 

I am willing to compromise on a lot of things I do in life, but buying a subpar game simply for the sake of supporting a company that consistently marginalizes our community is not one of those things.

 

I'd rather spend my energy supporting H1 and H2c until their last dying breath. I'll have a lot more fun doing that than giving 343 positive feedback for making a new space cod.

 

Of course they knew not everybody would react the same way or be in favor of all the changes.  That's inevitable with anything whether its video games, sports, politics, TV, etc etc.  Did they think the changes would cause people to blindly write off the entire franchise?  Certainly not, that's not good business.  

 

You're damned if you do and your damned if you don't.  When something is changed, flak is given because it's not "what people remember."  If nothing gets changed there will be flak for "being the same thing all over again."

 

I've got a raw ass about MCC too (and Halo 4.. gross) but thats 2 strikes, and 343 is still up to bat so hopefully on the next pitch they can knock it over the left field wall.

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Of course they knew not everybody would react the same way or be in favor of all the changes.  That's inevitable with anything whether its video games, sports, politics, TV, etc etc.  Did they think the changes would cause people to blindly write off the entire franchise?  Certainly not, that's not good business.  

 

You're damned if you do and your damned if you don't.  When something is changed, flak is given because it's not "what people remember."  If nothing gets changed there will be flak for "being the same thing all over again."

 

I've got a raw ass about MCC too (and Halo 4.. gross) but thats 2 strikes, and 343 is still up to bat so hopefully on the next pitch they can knock it over the left field wall.

I know, man. It's just business, I'm not taking it personally. However, they shouldn't take it personally when I don't buy it. I'm simply not a part of the target demographic.

 

I saw my younger cousin whose 5 years old playing with some Master Chief action figures, and oh you should have seen the joy he had in telling me all the cool stuff master chief did. THAT is who halo belongs to now, gents. I'm not even upset; to him MC is a super hero right up there with Iron Man and the rest of the avengers. Call me crazy, but that the gamestop trailer for H5 where Locke was flying around like iron man wasn't an accident. Halo isn't a game about super soldiers anymore; it is a game with super heroes.

 

Frankly, 343 is an extremely deceitful company. I won't even go into why, but I don't think many people on here would argue that. My point is that they are saying that H5 is going to bring back competitive halo, but what are their actions saying? (Note: I'm not calling all 343 employees deceitful. )

 

Do what y'all want, but don't act like I'm being spiteful for not wanting to support H5.

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You're kind of cutting off your nose to spite your face a little there eh?  

 

Not buying H5 on launch out of principle is fine.  Lower those first week sales numbers so it sends a message.  I get it.

But NEVER buying the game at all no matter what?  Even if it turns out to kick total ass?  That's just denying yourself many hours of fun out of spite, in the hope of sending a message to 343 that they are never going to receive.  And even if they do, and its the reason that their future games are great, you would never reap the rewards.

 

When you really analyze the spiteful "Im never going to do this cuz, well... fuck them" mentality, nobody really wins....   :(

 

I played the Beta - didnt enjoy it - so my decision is not based solely on spite. 

There are better games to be played, created by far more competent developers. 

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I know, man. It's just business, I'm not taking it personally. However, they shouldn't take it personally when I don't buy it. I'm simply not a part of the target demographic.

 

I saw my younger cousin whose 5 years old playing with some Master Chief action figures, and oh you should have seen the joy he had in telling me all the cool stuff master chief did. THAT is who halo belongs to now, gents. I'm not even upset; to him MC is a super hero right up there with Iron Man and the rest of the avengers. Call me crazy, but that the gamestop trailer for H5 where Locke was flying around like iron man wasn't an accident. Halo isn't a game about super soldiers anymore; it is a game with super heroes.

 

Frankly, 343 is an extremely deceitful company. I won't even go into why, but I don't think many people on here would argue that. My point is that they are saying that H5 is going to bring back competitive halo, but what are their actions saying? (Note: I'm not calling all 343 employees deceitful. )

 

Do what y'all want, but don't act like I'm being spiteful for not wanting to support H5.

 

To each their own, i've got no problem with that.  Hopefully future decisions/games will bring you back into the fold.  The better the population, the better for all of us.

 

And i totally agree, the locke trailer was like a mashup of "Iron Man" and "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon."  Outside of the Halo context it would have looked cool, but since it exists in the Halo context, it was... unnerving, to say the least. 

 

I played the Beta - didnt enjoy it - so my decision is not based solely on spite. 

There are better games to be played, created by far more competent developers. 

 

Can't argue with that, they certainly aren't going to make any radical changes that would give you reason to pull a 180 on that opinion if you hated it in the first place.  I happened to enjoy it, despite my reservations about some of the mechanics.  So i will be getting it, provided its actually working when it launches.

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To each their own, i've got no problem with that. Hopefully future decisions/games will bring you back into the fold. The better the population, the better for all of us.

 

And i totally agree, the locke trailer was like a mashup of "Iron Man" and "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon." Outside of the Halo context it would have looked cool, but since it exists in the Halo context, it was... unnerving, to say the least.

 

 

Can't argue with that, they certainly aren't going to make any radical changes that would give you reason to pull a 180 on that opinion if you hated it in the first place. I happened to enjoy it, despite my reservations about some of the mechanics. So i will be getting it, provided its actually working when it launches.

Asides from scrapping H5 altogether and starting from scratch, firing 80% of 343 upper management, and requiring Josh Holmes to take mandatory Halo 1 lessons from missingno before they write a single line of code for new h5, there isn't even a remote possibility that I will support it. Lol

 

That being said, I don't even think I would want them to do all that. It's a lost cause for me honestly.

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Asides from scrapping H5 altogether and starting from scratch, firing 80% of 343 upper management, and requiring Josh Holmes to take mandatory Halo 1 lessons from missingno before they write a single line of code for new h5, there isn't even a remote possibility that I will support it. Lol

 

That being said, I don't even think I would want them to do all that. It's a lost cause for me honestly.

 

Well said.  It's just sad that this new generation is so infatuated with shitty halo games and thinks that they are actually playing a fun game because they equate getting a kill to being fun and that is all they know.  Anyone that is a halo 1 OG knows that h5 is going to be inferior game.  Just have to be thankful that we were able to ride the wave from 02-06 when halo was at it's peak.  I feel blessed growing up in a generation where games actually took skill enabling me to recognize a shitty low skill curve game like h5 at the drop of a hat while gen Z kids aimlessly walk around with their blinders on.   Everything that's come out past halo 2 has been complete garbage and on top of that, halo CE is worlds better than H2.

 

NO one from 343 should be writing any code until Hardy LeBel tells them what to write. 

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Well said.  It's just sad that this new generation is so infatuated with shitty halo games and thinks that they are actually playing a fun game because they equate getting a kill to being fun and that is all they know.  Anyone that is a halo 1 OG knows that h5 is going to be inferior game.  Just have to be thankful that we were able to ride the wave from 02-06 when halo was at it's peak.  I feel blessed growing up in a generation where games actually took skill enabling me to recognize a shitty low skill curve game like h5 at the drop of a hat while gen Z kids aimlessly walk around with their blinders on.   Everything that's come out past halo 2 has been complete garbage and on top of that, halo CE is worlds better than H2.

 

It's not just Halo but Console games as a whole are just out of touch compared to PC gaming. PC gaming has been taking strides in competitive gaming over the past 10 years, and the gap between PC and Console is as big as it ever has been.

 

With Twitch making it big, let's just hope that Console gaming realizes what it has been missing out on. If H5 flops like H4 did, I will probably start taking PC gaming seriously and build myself a rig.

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Can't argue with that, they certainly aren't going to make any radical changes that would give you reason to pull a 180 on that opinion if you hated it in the first place.  I happened to enjoy it, despite my reservations about some of the mechanics.  So i will be getting it, provided its actually working when it launches.

 

cheers_law_and_order.gif

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Can't argue with that, they certainly aren't going to make any radical changes that would give you reason to pull a 180 on that opinion if you hated it in the first place.  I happened to enjoy it, despite my reservations about some of the mechanics.  So i will be getting it, provided its actually working when it launches.

 

I think you aren't seeing the big picture here.  It doesn't matter what they are or are not doing to halo 5. One of the wisest things you can do as a consumer is to not buy a game from a company that releases broken/incomplete games.  By supporting them and buying their products, you are essentially condoning the fact that it's OK to release unfinished games like MCC.  This is horseshit.  Consumers of your mindset are the reason why everyone has to put up with developers making unfinished games that require multiple patches to fix months and months after the game has been released.  MCC was a failure, so why would you reward failure by purchasing halo 5?  Is this what society has come to? Rewarding companies for failure instead of supporting ones that want to earn your business and demonstrate that they know how to not release a broken game and are more worthy of your time and money?  The sales #'s of halo 5 will answer this question.

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I think you aren't seeing the big picture here.  It doesn't matter what they are or are not doing to halo 5. One of the wisest things you can do as a consumer is to not buy a game from a company that releases broken/incomplete games.  By supporting them and buying their products, you are essentially condoning the fact that it's OK to release unfinished games like MCC.  This is horseshit.  Consumers of your mindset are the reason why everyone has to put up with developers making unfinished games that require multiple patches to fix months and months after the game has been released.  MCC was a failure, so why would you reward failure by purchasing halo 5?  Is this what society has come to? Rewarding companies for failure instead of supporting ones that want to earn your business and demonstrate that they know how to not release a broken game and are more worthy of your time and money?  The sales #'s of halo 5 will answer this question.

 

I liken it to paying a contractor to make you an original two-story house. He never finishes the downstairs--the walls are made out of duct tape and spit--but the upstairs looks nice. You haven't yet paid him for the upstairs, even though he assure you it will be great, but you've already paid him for the downstairs. He shrugs and says the downstairs'll be finished someday, and hey--he may even give you a free ODST bath towel for your trouble. Someday. 

 

Meanwhile, he tells you all about how great the upstairs will be and asks you to pay for it in advance. You say you did that for the downstairs but it isn't finished yet. You don't want to be swindled again. Again, he shrugs and says "But I've learned my lesson. It won't happen again, promise. So, ya know, pay me now anyway." You remember this same contractor saying the same thing three years ago when he built your first house, PROMISING it would be as good as the last three. It was one of the worst monstrosities you'd ever laid eyes upon.

 

Meanwhile the rest of your family has moved out of the downstairs and back to their vacation home near the lake with the good CoD fishing because at least that house is BUILT AND FINISHED, if not perhaps as interesting. And the contractor just keeps saying the downstairs will be finished "soon," even though he's seven-months past the due date. Soon, soon, soon, then on the day the upstairs is supposed to be finished, you pay for it, only to learn that three times isn't the charm and history repeats itself. The downstairs is unfinished and the upstairs has all kinds of horrible issues. It's stable, sure, but compared to the other houses on the street, it's bland and outdated, having done little more than taken various stylings of rooms from other houses and slapped them together. It's a frankenstein.

 

But hey, maybe the fourth house this contractor builds will be as advertised. You can trust him. He's learned his lesson after all, right?

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Can somebody please say the same damn thing for another 10 pages? Please?

MCC sucks...

MCC sucks...

game is still broken...

XBone is covered in dust...

MCC still unplayable...

game sucks...

500 less dollars in my bank account...

Fuck H5...

Still no fun console shooter...

I'm gonna go play LoL...

 

 

 

 

 

 

feels great :weback:

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Can't argue with that, they certainly aren't going to make any radical changes that would give you reason to pull a 180 on that opinion if you hated it in the first place.  I happened to enjoy it, despite my reservations about some of the mechanics.  So i will be getting it, provided its actually working when it launches.

 

I think you aren't seeing the big picture here.  It doesn't matter what they are or are not doing to halo 5. One of the wisest things you can do as a consumer is to not buy a game from a company that releases broken/incomplete games.  By supporting them and buying their products, you are essentially condoning the fact that it's OK to release unfinished games like MCC.  This is horseshit.  Consumers of your mindset are the reason why everyone has to put up with developers making unfinished games that require multiple patches to fix months and months after the game has been released.  MCC was a failure, so why would you reward failure by purchasing halo 5?  Is this what society has come to? Rewarding companies for failure instead of supporting ones that want to earn your business and demonstrate that they know how to not release a broken game and are more worthy of your time and money?  The sales #'s of halo 5 will answer this question.

 

I get the big picture.  I fully understand the argument about not rewarding companies that make shit products and I fully support it.  But just like people, companies are allowed to learn from their mistakes, improve and start treating others better.  When that happens, they deserve to be rewarded.  Long term behavioral change comes from rewarding good behavior, not just punishing bad.    

 

In no way did i suggest in my post that I was, "condoning the fact that it's OK to release unfinished games like MCC."  In fact, I very deliberately qualified my statement with, "...provided its actually working when it launches."  aka I will not buy it until i know that the game actually works.  And pre-ordering is simply out of the question, for any game I ever buy.  Never doing it again.

 

You say that, "MCC was a failure, so why would you reward failure by purchasing halo 5?" Whether or not I buy Halo 5 is a decision based on the merit of Halo 5.  If i determine that the game is working and i like the changes they made since the beta, then i'm buying it.  Why wouldn't I?  In no way am I am going to deny myself a solid game (yet again, if it turns out that way after launch) just to send a continuing message about a past transgression.  I would rather "catch them being good" and reward them for that to increase the likelihood of that good behavior going forward.

 

To reiterate so nobody tries to put words in my mouth again:  My willingness to buy Halo 5 presupposes that 1) I Approve of the changes they make since the beta and 2) that it is actually fucking working when it releases.  If that's not the case, i wont be buying until it is.  And if it's broke and takes too long (maybe a week or 2, not months and counting like MCC) to fix, then i wont be buying it at all.  I have better things to do with my time.

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I guess we are only the 5% of Halo fans, according to Frank...

 

Dang, just keeps getting smaller and smaller - no wonder with every Halo title it just gets worse and worse. 

 

The competitive used to be referred to as the 1% from what I remember. So hopefully we become more and can get our damn game back to play the way we want it since we obviously stick around.

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I liken it to paying a contractor to make you an original two-story house. He never finishes the downstairs--the walls are made out of duct tape and spit--but the upstairs looks nice. You haven't yet paid him for the upstairs, even though he assure you it will be great, but you've already paid him for the downstairs. He shrugs and says the downstairs'll be finished someday, and hey--he may even give you a free ODST bath towel for your trouble. Someday. 

 

Meanwhile, he tells you all about how great the upstairs will be and asks you to pay for it in advance. You say you did that for the downstairs but it isn't finished yet. You don't want to be swindled again. Again, he shrugs and says "But I've learned my lesson. It won't happen again, promise. So, ya know, pay me now anyway." You remember this same contractor saying the same thing three years ago when he built your first house, PROMISING it would be as good as the last three. It was one of the worst monstrosities you'd ever laid eyes upon.

 

Meanwhile the rest of your family has moved out of the downstairs and back to their vacation home near the lake with the good CoD fishing because at least that house is BUILT AND FINISHED, if not perhaps as interesting. And the contractor just keeps saying the downstairs will be finished "soon," even though he's seven-months past the due date. Soon, soon, soon, then on the day the upstairs is supposed to be finished, you pay for it, only to learn that three times isn't the charm and history repeats itself. The downstairs is unfinished and the upstairs has all kinds of horrible issues. It's stable, sure, but compared to the other houses on the street, it's bland and outdated, having done little more than taken various stylings of rooms from other houses and slapped them together. It's a frankenstein.

 

But hey, maybe the fourth house this contractor builds will be as advertised. You can trust him. He's learned his lesson after all, right?

I wish I could use up 10 days worth of likes on your post, standing ovation!

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I'd love to see a "343 employees read mean tweets" video, the :salt:  would be real.

Yeah and a week later or so:

 

Various employees from 343 Industries resign from their job due to unforeseen circumstances!

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