My Thoughts on Continued Progression and Renewed Relationships

[Lazer]

But it's hard to deny that someone, somewhere, is screwing up on a very big scale.

 

Some monkey in a suit at Microsoft would be a likely culprit but even then, fuck ups on this scale aren't down to 1 person. I think one of the key issues with 343 is the sheer disconnect they have, well with like everything. The community/fans, the GAME and with each other. Its been pretty apparent since day one their communication has severely lacked, between the fans but also with themselves. There seems to be fundamental problems internally within 343 and it desperately needs to be addressed, ideally before continuing on with the series.

 

The disconnect from the game is a whole nother ball game however.

 

 

But, at a certain point you have to say okay, they messed up, they know they messed up, they might even still be messing up, but how can we positively influence them with feedback so that the entire franchise can benefit going forward. 

 

Um, hello? What were the past few years? lol

 

Its not up to us or any part of the fanbase to make the first move anymore, we've been doing that and it doesn't matter when they don't care or want to hear it. We're past that now, its up to 343 and 343 alone at this point. Whether they want to or not is another matter entirely and if they do then they're the ones that will need to start putting a real effort into reaching out to the fanbase and to start amending everything. Not us.

 

Our attitude/reaction/atmosphere will change accordingly.

[BR N00b]

I think the message has been received by 343 Industries that we are less than satisfied with the launch of the Master Chief Collection. The Halo Championship Series has suffered because of it, and yes the competitive community has suffered because of it. 

 

But, at a certain point you have to say okay, they messed up, they know they messed up, they might even still be messing up, but how can we positively influence them with feedback so that the entire franchise can benefit going forward. 

 

The anger was justified, but at a certain point you have to take a step back and reevaluate your approach, because no amount of witty critique or hate will change what's happened in the past. 

 

I would like to think that 343i has "received" the message that Halo fans are "less than satisfied" with MCC, but what evidence does the Halo community have that proves this? We are 6+ months into the launch of MCC, and there aren't ranks, games still launch with uneven teams, and it seems that new bugs are discovered every day. To call MCC "functional" 6+ months after launch, would be GENEROUS at best. All of this coming from a supposed AAA game studio with the near limitless resources of Microsoft at their disposal.

 

Given all the problems that still exist with MCC, I don't think anyone in their right mind would consider the game to be "fixed,"  However, this is exactly what 343i/MS promised to do. Despite this promise, and MCC's continued dysfunctional state, 343i has gone from releasing a patch almost every week, to releasing one every 1-2 months. From my perspective not only did 343i fail the Halo community with the initial launch off MCC, but they have continued to fail the community with their attempted "fixes," and they will fail the community one more time when they stop patching the game (before it's fixed).

 

At this point I have moved beyond anger, and into the acceptance stage; I have accepted  that their is an incompetent studio at the helm of one of my all-time favorite video game franchises, and that there will probably never be another Halo game that I will consider buying (H5 included). I have also accepted the fact that 343i/M$ made a calculated business decision to knowingly launch a completely broken game in order to reap the financial rewards. They determined that it was better to meet the launch date, sell consoles, and fleece their customers, than it was to deliver a quality (working) product.

 

So you will excuse me if I find the concept that we can "positively influence them with feedback" to be naive at best. We are nothing more than numbers on a page to them, the only "feedback" that matters is what will sell the most copies come November.

[MrGreenWithAGun]

@@Vetoed, its has gone well past the point of a screw up. The fact they knew makes it intentional. The fact they continue affirms it was intentional. From this we can extrapolate the outcome.

 

And if anyone believes they didn't know is blind.

[KurtiZ]

The closed door approach is so redundant. There are unlimited possibilities to make development more open without it taking more time, causing issues or otherwise negatively impacting the game. For example if some of the decision making we saw in The Sprint was discussed in a quick skype call with a BE representative, and put under NDA. Doing so would efficiently force the cream of our community to the top and it could be used quickly and effectively. Doing this once per week would take next to no time on their behalf, and would give our entire community something constructive to work - ie decide on talking points/analysis/reasoning to put forward relating to said decision/question put forward by 343. They would be hiring a team bigger than themselves for free, and the call would take 5 minutes, if that.

 

I mean the surveys are good and all, but text communication is pretty redundant/time consuming/inefficient, and it came out far too late for any of the feedback to make significant changes. This kind of stuff needed to be done pre-alpha, then continue through to release.

 

I'm with you though @@FrankTheShow

[NinjaWuu]

not sure what feedback we are talking about. Feedback to Halo 5 seems like they are too many competing factors (corporate and sales). They have a vision for Halo 5 and I do not think 343 is taking much feedback on that.

 

The feedback for HCS is something that should be incorporated.

[Bloodshot1990]

I don't care.


 

I am really torn between this being a troll post or not, I mean it is Frank

I was literally going to say the exact same thing.....

[Bdog]

Is this shit serious? 343 are scumbags. They stole our money.

[Guest]

I'm sure they're trying their best to get everything together.

[Aphex Twin]

How does anyone have the patience for this kind of stuff anymore?

[Hard Way]

I think the message has been received by 343 Industries that we are less than satisfied with the launch of the Master Chief Collection. The Halo Championship Series has suffered because of it, and yes the competitive community has suffered because of it. 

 

But, at a certain point you have to say okay, they messed up, they know they messed up, they might even still be messing up, but how can we positively influence them with feedback so that the entire franchise can benefit going forward. 

 

The anger was justified, but at a certain point you have to take a step back and reevaluate your approach, because no amount of witty critique or hate will change what's happened in the past. 

 

We're already doing what you're suggesting.  We're active on their Twitter.  We mention them in posts here, on reddit, Neogaf, etc.  We are giving them feedback and they are supposedly receiving it.  And our 'witty critiques' aren't trying to change the past, and its foolish to think that's their purpose.  We're trying to change the future.  We're trying to get them to fix their mistakes.  And more often than not, they do not listen.  So what then?  What do you suggest when they continually ignore both our patient feedback and our witty critiques?  What do we do when they write off overwhelming anti-sprint poll results from three very different fan sites with a snarky wikipedia link to 'selection bias'?  What do we do when they barely talk to us over the course of Project Salvage MCC, which is over 5 months and counting btw.

 

You know what's crazy (and this doesn't get mentioned enough)?  We still don't know why this happened.  Throughout all of this, they have never once came out and explained why this game was such a gigantic embarrassment.  Instead they barely acknowledge it.  Their communication with us has been as minimal and vague as they can possibly make it.  And as this raging dumpster fire continues to burn, they have the nerve to release weekly update videos that completely ignore the MCC.  They don't even mention it, like it never happened.  Like hundreds of thousands of people aren't waiting for an explanation or an update.  Or like they didn't turn away hundreds of thousands more from Halo, possibly for good.  Instead they try to sweep this huge pile of embarrassing failure under the rug, as if no one will notice the lump when H5 comes out.

 

And what's more, they lied to us about this game.  They knew damn well how bad it was prior to launch, and they still sold it with a straight face.  It blows my fucking mind that H5 has good preorder numbers.  Those people are enabling this type of developer behavior by not punishing it.  If you have a preorder for Halo 5, shame on you.  You are encouraging this widespread shafting of the consumer that publishers have been getting away with the last couple years.  Get a clue people.  How about wait to see if the game fucking works before you fork over your money like a mindless lemming.  How many times do you have to burn your hand on the stove before you remember that it's hot?

[The Snazzer]

If some of you guys don't like negative post then don't bother stopping by when Halo 5 comes around.

[MrGreenWithAGun]

If some of you guys don't like negative post then don't bother stopping by when Halo 5 comes around.

Ok

[Jake Teh Nub]

So we should see where they're coming from when a AAA studio owned by Microsoft fucks us out of 350+ for a game that is "just like we remember it" that didn't and still doesn't work 6 month later???

 

Nevermind all the lies and constant shoving of Halo 5 down our throats. All development and advertisement of Halo 5 should have been halted the second this travesty was released. It was done with Battlefield, it can be done.

 

No. No sympathy from me. If they were more upfront about ANYTHING, MAYBE they would have a chance at sympathy. They want our money. All we want is what we paid for. They got what they wanted and we still haven't gotten what we want.

 

I've said this before to people: if you bought an Xbox One just for the MCC you're stupid. I'm sorry but it's the truth. Buying any system for literally one thing ever is a bad idea. Although I do agree with everything else you said.

[Petty]

I'm loving these replies.  Just imagine how good MCC would've been if it worked from day one.  I will never forgive 343.

[Shekkles]

No.

 

They change a franchise because they think "creating their own experience" is more important than pleasing fans. To remedy this, they release MCC which theoretically would please all halo fans enormously, however the game, 6 months in, still doesn't work as it was supposed to, and indeed for 4 months DIDN'T work at all.

 

Now, with more massive changes to the core Halo gameplay, with terrible hedging on issues like "sprint" and aim down sights, I can't really respond to them with anything but cynicism and frustration. The games I love in 1080p don't work and the game they're making looks like a warped 5 year old's version of Halo 2.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, as many, many posters here have said, we're willing to do our part (provide feedback that's useful), we just wait for them to do theirs (apply feedback, respond with reasoning). We'll see how Halo 5 turns out but let's all be honest, none of us expect much.

[Stephander]

I've said this before to people: if you bought an Xbox One just for the MCC you're stupid. I'm sorry but it's the truth. Buying any system for literally one thing ever is a bad idea. Although I do agree with everything else you said.

Gotta disagree brah. It's not die hard halo fans fault that ms is dog shit and don't bother funding new Ips.

[Snipe Three]

I'll be honest. I tried everything stated in the OP years ago and I still slide back into trying/hoping/praying that they'll even allow me to give them a break or a chance. Do you know why I want to believe in them? I want them to succeed. Do you know why I simply can't forgive, forget or believe in anything they say or do? Its because this is 2015 and they have done absolutely nothing but fuck up on the largest scale possible in every conceivable fashion in every single project that followed the removal of of bloom for MLG gametypes back in Reach except maybe the H4 update. Actually scratch that last bit off. It was late and incomplete at best. I'm not being rude or trying to hurt poor Johnny 343's feelings. I'm just talking about reality. They don't deliver on anything for any reason at any time ever.

 

I would have to actually be an idiot to let them have more chances or believe for a second that they'll pull through. We aren't talking a couple of mishaps of the new Halo developer that needs to get used to everything and work out the kinks. They're years in and making mistakes like the studio was founded last month.

[li97]

Also wanted to add that even if you think this game falls on some Microsoft suit calling the shots, keep in mind that is no excuse for the horrible game management when it comes to BR vs AR/SMG starts, wrong game types, horrible playlist selections, etc etc.

[Hitman]

Well, when you start out with "We Hired people who hate Halo"(the one time Frank O' Connor let the truth slip out) and then release H4, then MCC, and now another uninspired Halo game trying to fit in with the MMS crowd  its pretty damning from a fan's view point. You start to wonder if the leadership at 343 is really right for the job and why no significant changes have been made in studio to bring in dev's who have a real vision for Halo that aligns with what the fans want. The fans feel Halo should be its own commodity and not be made in the like-ness of other games this was the primary reason for the major  backlash against H4. And what I mean by that is when I play Halo 1-Halo 3 there is no doubt I am playing a Halo game even though there is major mechanical differences between them because the gameplay fundamentals and formula is similar.

 

However, when I play Reach default/H4/H5 beta I do not get that strong "Halo feel" and it just ends up feeling like a poor mis-mash of other modern shooter titles and I lose interest quickly. CS has had a huge resurgence in part because there really is no other FPS like it and it executes its own formula so well, Halo could do the same on Xbox and be the king of its own brand of Arena/tactical game-play like it used to be. Yet, 343 has shown they still haven't got this message, and they wish for Halo to fit in rather than stand out when Halo has always been known for being the leader and the innovator on console not the follower. Until Halo becomes king of its own formula once again, it will remain a shell of its former self and 343 does not seem to acknowledge this or understand this.

[Cadillac]

What a joke.  They are business.  We are consumers.  We paid them full price for a product, and nearly 6 months later we still haven't received that full product.  We have a right to be angry.  They do not deserve patience.  They deserve a lot of negative attention about this.  We made a deal, and they didn't hold up their end of the bargain.  It's that simple.

 

And that's not even taking into account what a colossal failure Halo 4 was, or how they have applied almost none of the feedback regarding Halo 4 to Halo 5.  This company is a bumbling embarrassment.  This isn't a personal relationship.  It is a business transaction.  Don't forget that.  And in this business transaction, we were screwed over pretty God damn hard.  So no, I'm not going to forgive and forget, and I'm disappointed in anyone in our community that thinks we should.  For Christ's sake, fucking stand up for yourself.

 

lmao... Dude, you really need to...

[Spartan0S36]

We've been standing up for ourselves, we've also given them the finger by getting involved with the Halo Online project. I think the community already won (Sans corporate spokespeople).

 

We have an avenue to move on now.

 

Just to clarify, the situation is still depressing. But: It's a sign of the next most relevant direction for Halo -- which happens to appeal towards the competitive PC gaming.

[Spartan0S36]

 

We've been standing up for ourselves, we've also given them the finger by getting involved with the Halo Online project. I think the community already won (Sans corporate spokespeople, they won our goddamn money).

 

We have an avenue to move on now. What are we gonna do let Microsoft keep shitting on the PC Platform more and more are transitioning to?

 

Just to clarify, the situation with MCC is still depressing. But: It's a sign of the next most relevant direction for Halo -- which happens to appeal towards the competitive PC gaming.

[Gaard]

I haven't been here in ages because I have sort of given up on Halo 5. Glad to see people are still active here. I don't even want to go into all the detail of what I think about this because other people have already said it all and I don't want to rant. That being said...

The wider issue here is the denigration of consumers and the attitude of game developers. The "You take what we give you and be happy with it" attitude. It's been happening for the last 3-4 years. Look at Battlefont. It has 1/5th of the content of Battlefront 2, double the price and most of the content will come as DLC. It is literally selling 1/5th of the game at launch and selling the other 4/5th's when they decide to finish it and RAPE OUR WALLETS for it. That's EA for you.

Stand up for yourself. Do not just sit idly and take this shit that devs are giving out. MCC was and technically is a broken fucking mess, I don't care about ODST + Relic, that isn't the point. They KNEW it was broken and sold it to us anyway. They showed zero respect to us as a community when this happened and pretended like they didn't know. I'm going to go against what I said at the beginning but..... FUCK 343. On top of all this, they go even further in the direction of Halo 4 for Halo 5. but that's another story. 

 

They should've delayed the utter pile of cunt that is Halo 5 in order to fix this shit ASAP. It's been 6 months and we still don't have ranks in most playlists. 

 

I've already gone into a bit of a rant which is what I was hoping to avoid. I just hope people realise they don't need to stand for this shit.

 

Also, @@Hard Way sorry I missed your game invite the other day bro, I'd just finished playing when you sent it. 

[FireAtWill]

I am afraid that 343 want to build a new community and doesn't really care any more about the old fan base. I have, as a lot of you, spend tens of thousands of hours on Halo but we are the old guys...and we are very few. 343 will go all in with H5 and it is up to each one of us if we want to join that party, they will not beg us.

[Ciutchism]

Honestly, I view every 343i member that knew about the state of MCC's development and still hyped it up as a criminal. I don't care what they have to say for themselves. Three weeks of full time work was spent to pay for a terrible, falsely advertised, utterly broken product. On top of that they don't know anything about game design. Nothing. I trust the guy that made the ranks (hardly a 343i employee), and Ghost. That's it. The rest have little to no influence and I don't care about you, or you have influence and don't know how to make a halfway decent game. I have more hope in Halo 3 PC modding than Halo 5.

 

Btw just found out that they are releasing ranks in Halo 3 PC this weekend (less than a month into development). GG 343i.