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KurtiZ

Other than nostalgia, why do people like Halo 3?

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No offence, but it seems like you're responding to less and less of my post each time. My points about what's a reasonable effective range, and the effect of randomness even well below the longer ranges you claim are what the mechanic is aimed at stopping, are central to what I'm trying to say here.

 

And also, now it's been categorically demonstrated that the spread has a profound effect on effective range and consistency even within mid ranges, how does that square with this?

 

It massively changes one of the fundamental parts of the utility weapon: range based TTK. When you combine that with the significant inconsistency introduced by spread, you have a drastically changed weapon. Still a BR, but a pretty damn different one.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that if anyone is being disingenuous about the Halo 3 BR here, it's the person claiming it's not a big change and is aimed at stopping cross map four shots. When actually it is a big change, and has a significant impact well below the ranges you say the mechanic is targeting for reduced effectiveness.

 

 

The BR has been defined as a medium range utility weapon.  When bungie made the game, they never stated what they deemed was medium range. 

 

IF medium range is determined as dead middle of a small map such as midship, then shooting any further than that would be outside of medium range, thus outside THIS BR's MAX EFFECTIVE RANGE.  But we don't know exactly what medium range is according to bungie. 

 

Correct, you have a drastically changed BR from it's previous installment.  But you have failed to recognize that I stated this weapon should not be judged on what it use to be, because you have a completely different weapon in a completely different game.   That is why I stated in my first post, if you believe this weapon to be inadequate, then you need to play the game more.  By that I mean play Halo 3 with a fresh look and stop comparing it to the previous installment and that game's utility weapon.   

 

Vastly different games with vastly different starting weapons.  I stated my reasons as to why I BELIEVE (My opinion) Halo 3 to be better.  You won't change my mind, and I won't change yours.  You don't like Halo 3's BR, I do.   

 

We're on opposite sides of the spectrum brah.

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NO NO NO NOW YOU HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD ME - i am assuming you are referring to my post on page 5

 

yes all the power to you for you creating a thread about halo #content where my problem lies and where other peoples problem lie is the condescending tone of this entire thread

 

its your opinion that halo 2 is better than halo 3 THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT CORRECT it is subjective, it is an opinion, it is a matter of preference, your question may as well be why do people like peanut butter over jam, people differ, what is good for one person might not be good for you, it isn't factual, no side is correct or wrong because there is no right answer

 

IT IS ENTIRELY BASED AROUND PEOPLE'S INDIVIDUALS PREFERENCES, PEOPLE SHOULDNT HAVE TO JUSTIFY IT hence why i said this thread is ultimately pointless and questioned why you even bothered making it

 

if you still do not understand this point of view then i give up

Well no shit.

 

But what I'm asking if for the opinion of those who favour H3. Not to "argue" which is better, not to "state which is best", not to "prove anyone wrong". I just want to know why H3 fans think it is better other than nostalgic reasons (which disappointingly has been the majority of answers so far). I am asking for enlightenment, that is all.

 

You've asked a question that isn't relevant here, hence you're not getting the answer you want. Who exactly within this community is arguing that H3 from a gameplay perspective is 'objectively' the best Halo game? As I've explained the thread you linked on Beyond isn't solely about gameplay and pretty much all of the discussion around H3 being the most viable choice is based on sustainability (popularity / watch-ability / other external factors) rather than the gameplay itself.

I understand that very well but I'm hopeful. At the very least this provides an interesting read

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I know it's the cool thing to hate on Halo 3 on this forum, but the aiming skill and gun play in Halo 3 is so much more difficult than the Halo 2 counterparts that I think it more than makes up for the spread everyone hates. 

 

Someone else already stated that the term mid range is only relative to the game and sandbox it's in. For what Halo 3 was it was okay.  Would the game be better off with less/no randomized spread? Sure, no one's arguing that. But that alone alongside slightly worse movement acceleration and the lack of button glitches doesn't make Halo 3 a worse game. 

 

The bottom line is that in a shooter the most important and essential part of the game that needs to have a high skill gap is shooting.  Sprint blows, clamber blows. So does thruster and ground pound and charge and ADS.  But if the shooting has an insanely high skill gap it still brings a lot to the table.  H2A is fantastic on paper, in fact on paper it's just H2C with grenade indicators and no button combos. But the guns aiming themselves doesn't help the engine in the least.

 

Button combos and an accurate BR alone isn't enough to merit H2 infinitely superior to Halo3 in my eyes. Say what you want, I love the OG trilogy with all my heart but I've always though H3 took more individual skill than Halo 2.  Chalk it up to the shitty grid aiming if you need, but Halo 3 when it comes down to it has a much higher skill curve when it comes to BR/Snipe gunplay then Halo 2 has with button combos. Just my opinion.

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I think one of the reasons Halo 3 is remembered so fondly by so many is Halo Reach. People looked at that train wreck and compared it to when times were simpler and conveniently better. If bloom and armor abilities never existed, or at least weren't made so painfully obvious, there would have been little desire to return to the previous installment, and the whole "return to Halo's roots" campaign might not have the same pull it has today.

The reason h3 is so beloved is because it accomplished its primary design goal- it entertained people well.

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this post is dumb and smart at the same time

No it was right on. Reach had the most sophisticated game type ever developed and its mm was the best. Today despite low pop you can still get into a game very fast and consistently.

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H2A is fantastic on paper, in fact on paper it's just H2C with grenade indicators and no button combos. Halo 2 has with button combos. Just my opinion.

*sigh*

 

No it's not god damnit

 

H2a = h4 with h2 skin

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Because on this forum if somebody were to say they liked the H3 BR more than the H2 BR they would be downvoted to hell. People have tried to explain why they think H3 is better in their opinion than H2/H1, but it doesn't matter because people only hear what they want to hear.

Which is why I don't care if I say what I want to say ...

 

 

Wait.....

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honest to god why did the op bother to make this thread? Do you have nothing else to do?

 

Why do people choose halo 1?

Why do people choose halo 2?

Why do people choose halo 4?

 

Its subjective, halo 3 appeals to some halo fan's taste and preferences more so than any other halo game IT IS THEIR INDIVIDUAL PREFERENCE! why do people fall in love with some people over others? why do some people hate pizza? you cant explain it it is simply a matter of taste and opinion, your opinion is not divine or gospel nor do we see people BOTHERING TO POST "why do people pick h2 over h3" all in all get over yourself your opinion is just that it is yours, other people do not have to agree with you.

 

Now as for your explanation as to why people choose h3 please look other posts such as @ and finally please get over yourself

The reason I play reach and not h3 is less Mexican hosts and I get into matches like right now.

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I vote CE over all, but I would rather play H3 than H2.  H2 is not fun for me at all.  H3, in my opinion, is a far superior game.

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Obviously the halo 3 br has a higher skill gap, no one is arguing that.

 

The problem is at upper levels of play most people have similar aiming skill, thus whoever wins battles comes down to luck. You can get the first shot but the other guy will 5 shot you and yours took 6 and it didn't have anything to do with aiming or strafing... It only had to with random luck.

 

Halo 2 br is easy mode but at least it's consistent. You shoot first and keep your reticle on the guy and you'll win 99% of the time. Halo 3 it's more like 70% of the time... Halo 1 would also be 99% of the time while retaining a high shot count in most duels thanks to good strafe mechanics.

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Opinions are funny. I never could understand how everyone else's are always so shitty.

 

All kidding aside, I don't think I'll ever understand how people could like H3 more than H2 or NBNS Reach.

Different ideas of what "Halo" means, I guess.

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For me, H3 is vastly overrated. Just moving and aiming around feels awkward as hell. Feels unnatural and like you're under water or in quicksand. Then you got a BR that literally puts a bullet in a random place and will also refund you a bullet when the connection "lost your shot". Blood shots on LAN and trading kills? Such progress. Terrible maps. IMO the only good thing about H3 is the campaign (decent), introduction of forge, theatre, and file share.

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I love it for the artstyle, the personality, the things that no other Halo has. Its my favourite campaign too, love it to death. Yea, the multiplayer is well below the previous efforts, but for some reason its still so fun. I dont know about you guys but equipment really does it for me from a casual perspective, adds so much random fun that the previous ones didnt have as much of.

 

Competetively, CE, 2, v7 >>>absolutely shits on>>> H3

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I vote CE over all, but I would rather play H3 than H2.  H2 is not fun for me at all.  H3, in my opinion, is a far superior game.

 

May I ask why?

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Right i will try explain my reasons for preferring halo 3 

 

  1. There is a more broad range of competitive maps. halo 2 had  midship which accounted for the VAST AND I MEAN VAST majority of competitive game-types alongside warlord, lockout and shrine in comparison halo 3 which had midship, pit, narrows, gaurdian, construct (not counting forge maps). Call me crazy but i like a diverse range of maps otherwise the gameplay gets stale quick, its my main issue with the mcc at present.
  2. I think the ability to perfectly four someone over large distances is an absolute piss take, you shouldn't be able to do that, it encourages people to sit back and camp their little arses off, halo 3 spread requires people move up the map more, it also encourages more teamwork as one person cannot just camp p3 on midship and perfectly 4 someone every fucking time - it really is not that difficult in halo 2.
  3. halo 2's main skill gap is an accident, it wasn't meant to be in the game i.e button glitches and sadly these combos no longer even require skill to use with the introduction of scuffs which i am betting my house that some of the halo 2 purists in this forum have and use, which then allows the ability to double shot all day long WOW MAD SKILLS BRO.
  4. Halo 2 sword lunge was absolutely ridiculous also.
  5. Halo 3 had a more diverse range of weapons and maps which made the game fun to play competitively whilst also allowing people to play for fun, which halo 2 imo failed to do, with super jump kids (again another fucking glitch) ruining the fucking game.

But halo 2 did have it appeals also, i liked the ranking system in halo 2, it was extremely difficult to get that 50, it was at a point where even the pro's struggled to get them. I also actually enjoyed the button glitches (until scufs were introduced in the mcc and double shoting actually required skill) and lastly i enjoyed the fact that i didnt have to be in constant communication with my team as i have already said h2 required less team work than h3 but a but more individual skill (back in the day not now with scufs) 

 

am i saying halo 2 is a bad game? NO!!!!!! am i saying i dont enjoy h2 again no! i actually enjoy h2 and dont BITCH ABOUT IT when i play it despite the above flaws

 

has my opinion changed over years obviously, but the things which gave halo 2 its unique appeal and skill gap are too easy to do and so it has lost its appeal

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I like Halo 3 because it pushed me physically and mentally harder than any of the other Halo games. Playing with a weak utility weapon with projectiles against people of my skill on an awful foreign host was glorious and has taught me much patience. As so I am never an angry player anymore and I owe it to Halo: 3. Not to mention Halo 3 was the only game that gave me the opportunity to play with and against the world's best and as such I grew quickly as a player.

 

My second option would of course be Reach. It is by far the most fun social Halo game out there and it's ZBNS settings are beautiful. I'd be playing MLG all day if the Mexicans weren't dominating that playlist today.

 

H2 I was too young and XBC and MCC are shit.

H1 the only experience I had with it was on PC on 350+ ping on BTB maps as well as the team slayer playlist on MCC (cant get games in CE PL)

 

Most of all I enjoyed H3 and Reach the most because they simply worked as intended. Fast games? check. Competitive close games? check. Fun social experience? check. Gameplay mechanics that make H2 and CE better don't mean shit if you can't ever get a chance to play it in the first place.

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Correct, you have a drastically changed BR from it's previous installment. But you have failed to recognize that I stated this weapon should not be judged on what it use to be, because you have a completely different weapon in a completely different game. That is why I stated in my first post, if you believe this weapon to be inadequate, then you need to play the game more. By that I mean play Halo 3 with a fresh look and stop comparing it to the previous installment and that game's utility weapon.

I haven't failed to recognise that, I just think it's a non-contribution to the discussion. You're basically saying accept it for what it is. And I have, it's a less effective BR, and that's what I don't like. It's not like it's got some upsides as well as downsides that I'm overlooking in terms of effectiveness. It's just worse. People know this. That's precisely what they dislike.

 

It's not like I went in to Halo 3 expecting it to be the H2 BR and was disappointed. I barely played H2, yet H3 was the most significant Halo to me in terms of getting in to the game in depth, discovering live and the online community, and the competitive community in particular. I went in to H3 taking it at face value, I totally accepted the BR for what it was and continue to do so. Since then, looking back at the various BRs we have, and despite all that Halo 3 means to me, I've just decided that it's the least conducive to the style of competitive gameplay not only that I want to see, but is in line with the rest of the series in terms of a higher effective range and much greater degree of consistency in a utility weapon. This isn't nostalgia in effect, in fact its a decision made in spite of nostalgia. Hell I even like Halo 4's BR better, even if I like the game less overall than Halo 3.

 

 

Vastly different games with vastly different starting weapons. I stated my reasons as to why I BELIEVE (My opinion) Halo 3 to be better. You won't change my mind, and I won't change yours. You don't like Halo 3's BR, I do.

 

We're on opposite sides of the spectrum brah.

Thing is, you're right. And that's fine. Like you say, you prefer it to be a different kind of game, one which promotes people getting closer in to the modified effective range of the BR. Horses for courses, I don't have an issue with that.

 

But may I ask why you constantly focus solely on range and dodge the point about drastic inconsistency time and again? This is not simply about effective range, but of the significant variation in effectiveness even within lower ranges. Even if we accept that the BR should be severely range limited compared to its predecessor and successors, how is unreliable randomness a good way to achieve that? The existence and effect of randomness is not subjective, it is just there. And I don't see how even any of your more recent points really explains why that's good, or even passable, as an important mechanic. In fact, like I said, you don't seem to be even acknowledging it.

 

And can I also ask why you opened trying to massively downplay the changes to the BR, saying that spread is not that big of a change and that it's only really meant to stop people cross mapping? Because now you accept that it's a vastly different weapon, and that the spread isn't only meant to stop cross map fours like you said, but actually is meant to draw out battles even at ranges half those you cited. I just don't see why someone who's so reconciled with Halo 3's BR felt the need to be so disingenuous about its nature, and at the same time claim others were doing so, when trying to sing its praises. People who genuinely believe something is good genuinely don't feel the need to misrepresent it, right? I'm not trying to be an ass here, but those points are what I started off disagreeing with, and you just seem to have quietly moved away from defending them.

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*sigh*

 

No it's not god damnit

 

H2a = h4 with h2 skin

It's built off the same engine, sure. If I recall Halo 1 2 and 3 were all built off the Havok engine. Has nothing to do with it.

 

How is H2A different from H2C on paper aside from button combos and grenade indicators.

 

Again, I'm not saying it plays anything remotely like it. Because it doesn't, that's my point. The engine has everything it 'should' have and still is terrible.

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It's built off the same engine, sure. If I recall Halo 1 2 and 3 were all built off the Havok engine. Has nothing to do with it.

 

How is H2A different from H2C on paper aside from button combos and grenade indicators.

 

Again, I'm not saying it plays anything remotely like it. Because it doesn't, that's my point. The engine has everything it 'should' have and still is terrible.

Have you ever even played h2c?

 

H2a looks like h2c but it plays nothing alike, the strafing is different, floaty jumps, the melee system in h2a is atrocious

 

To say they are the same game minus button combos is a joke

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Have you ever even played h2c?

 

H2a looks like h2c but it plays nothing alike, the strafing is different, floaty jumps, the melee system in h2a is atrocious

 

To say they are the same game minus button combos is a joke

Yes I have, don't insult me. You're literally agreeing with everything I'm saying.

 

ON PAPER, H2A has even starts, the same maps H2C had, the weapons function similarly within the sandbox, the jumps are RELATIVELY similar in comparison to jumping in other FPS games, or even Reach/H1, the weapons spawn in the same spots at the same time, 4 grenades of each type, the shielding works the same, the melee system 'should' work the same, but in practice the two play nothing alike. If 343 described what the H2A engine would be like before MCC released, they would list out all of these traits that are similar between H2A and H2C and we could believe that we're getting a modern Halo 2. But we're not.

 

Stop trying to argue when you're saying the same thing as me lol.

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Why ? Probably because that's the Halo game they started playing(which is unfortunate), also the fact that it was probably the best game we had back at 2007(even though Halo 2 was still working).

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Yes I have, don't insult me. You're literally agreeing with everything I'm saying.

 

Stop trying to argue when you're saying the same thing as me lol.

Wow I am an idiot, fck me

 

LOL sry m8

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Obviously the halo 3 br has a higher skill gap, no one is arguing that.

 

Au contraire!  I am . . . or, at least, I will.  I fail to see how the addition of randomness (both intentionally via spread and unintentionally via latency to the host affecting the amount of lead) makes the gun have a higher skill gap.  Higher host gap, sure.  Higher luck gap, yeppers.  But skill gap?

 

If adding random factors to bullet travel such that with identically aimed guns you could have a 4-shot one time and a 6-shot next time adds a skill gap, then is not the AR the most skilled weapon of all?  After all, it has even more randomness with respect to where bullets go.  If making the BR accuracy shit-poor even at half the red reticule range is good, then making it fucking awful all the time must be awesome.  So awesome that you give it a new name.  AR.  Awesome Rifle.

 

Random =/= skill.

 

Now when it comes to the aim assist reduction, yes.  I will agree that the reduction in aim assist for H3 created a higher skill gap for players to put the reticle on target.  That's a universal characteristic for all the weapons, not something specific to the BR.

 

So I would conclude:

 

Aiming skill gap:  H3 > H2

BR mechanics skill gap:  H2 > H3

 

What would have been awesome is the H3 aiming + H2 BR.

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