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Halo Championship Series Season 2 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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There may be so many reasons that ricochet shouldn't be added to HCS and it would take a lot of effort to organize and explain them all. I really hope that 343 gives a reasoning as to why it's being added so we can address our concerns point-by-point rather than having to write dissertation-length essays to cover everything.

 

If their reasoning is "it's a competitive gametype so we put it in" and nothing more, we wouldn't need to argue why it's a bad gametype, we could pretend it's a good one and still say "Griffball is pretty competitive but it has its own separate tournament scene because it's a different type of competitive game compared to the rest of the HCS settings" and argue that since nobody wants to play it adding it to HCS will ultimately be bad because it makes HCS a lot less fun and more of a chore, resulting in lower player numbers and views.

 

If there's different reasoning we respond accordingly, but the point I'm trying to make is that we need simplicity and structure in our response to them adding ricochet to the lineup. Everyone loudly yelling different things without polish to the argument seems childish and doesn't make a strong counter argument.

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No, an actual boycott needs to happen, however apg said a few pages back that he's too wernie to put the controller down on a main stage during a ricochet match. 343 runs the game, they'd forking out the dough for tournies, they're gonna do what they want and the pros will play it. I wish everyone had balls like lethul lol.

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I'm sorry, this is probably going to come off slightly dickish. But you contradicted your self in this post. You claim you would enjoy watching it played on a competitive level, but you stated right after that you haven't "seen any legitimate gameplay of pro teams playing this". I get what you mean, you think you would have fun watching it even though you haven't actually seen it yet, but you may want to consider rephrasing.

 

Also, CLG and Noble Black kind of attempted to scrim it last night on Warlord. CLG ended the game after a minute or two the first time from frustration, then the second game lasted a little longer before Ninja rage quit out of the game. I know that's not a very legitimate effort, but very quickly the game devolved into "when getting shot, chuck it to the opponent's goal and score before dying", which pretty much rewarded just touching the ball.

 

Who knows, maybe with more effort it could be better and you would be right. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it could never work in Halo 2 Anniversary, especially on the current maps selected.

 

I do appreciate your opinion though, sometimes we need a bit of a different perspective. :)

 

Bold is pretty misleading. They stopped scriming for other reasons not b/c they were playing Rico. And I think it was Noble Black that called of the scrim not CLG. Maybe someone can verify. I could be mixing up a different scenario.

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So what's the deal with GoldenBoy, why isn't he on Bomb Planted anymore?

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Because the BR is the worst weapon to ever exist in Halo, and it's the de facto utility weapon of every Halo game after CE (excluding Reach obviously).

Funknown from HaloGAF?

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Funknown from HaloGAF?

Who else would it be?

 

He hates the BR and wants Ninja to play CE.

 

 

 

 

I'm just kidding Funknown ;)

 

He also has the same avatar.

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No, an actual boycott needs to happen, however apg said a few pages back that he's too wernie to put the controller down on a main stage during a ricochet match. 343 runs the game, they'd forking out the dough for tournies, they're gonna do what they want and the pros will play it. I wish everyone had balls like lethul lol.

I wonder what the pro players contract say about that? I can imagine that companies like Denial, CLG, Cloud 9, Noble and EG have this covered in some way?

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I'm sorry, this is probably going to come off slightly dickish. But you contradicted your self in this post. You claim you would enjoy watching it played on a competitive level, but you stated right after that you haven't "seen any legitimate gameplay of pro teams playing this". I get what you mean, you think you would have fun watching it even though you haven't actually seen it yet, but you may want to consider rephrasing.

 

Also, CLG and Noble Black kind of attempted to scrim it last night on Warlord. CLG ended the game after a minute or two the first time from frustration, then the second game lasted a little longer before Ninja rage quit out of the game. I know that's not a very legitimate effort, but very quickly the game devolved into "when getting shot, chuck it to the opponent's goal and score before dying", which pretty much rewarded just touching the ball.

 

Who knows, maybe with more effort it could be better and you would be right. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it could never work in Halo 2 Anniversary, especially on the current maps selected.

 

I do appreciate your opinion though, sometimes we need a bit of a different perspective. :)

 

Let's just forget these guys are pros for a second. If someone told you that "richoshit is absolute garbage and if it gets into the settings I'm boycotting the gametype" and then you find out they didn't have the willpower to finish A SINGLE GAME. Would you give a shit about that guys opinion? I surely wouldn't.

Keep in mind these are the guys who were in favor of keeping station 9 in the settings even though that played and spectated like an absolute snooze-fest of zero depth, just so they wouldn't have to learn anything new.

People throwing a tantrum and acting like they might as well put grifball in the settings are being ridiculous.

Let's look at the things the way they are. Does ricochet have hammer/sword only starts? Are the maps nothing but a flat surface? Are there no weapons on the map?

It is more or less nothing but a modified assault. Now I'm not saying it is better than assault, and I agree it is essentially redundant. Ricochet probably isn't  what the HCS season 2 settings need, but half of this thread is now just filled with bashing that is unjustified, even considering the fact that 343 fucked up. I feel like at least someone has to play devil's advocate because a thread that is nothing but a fucking echo chamber gets old real fast.

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Funknown from HaloGAF?

 

 

Yup, I lurk here from time to time.

 

Who else would it be?

 

He hates the BR and wants Ninja to play CE.

 

After reading Ninja's comparison of CE to Halo 3 in the context of "slow Halo games," I think it's safe to say Ninja won't be playing CE anytime soon.

 

Probably never even played it in that case.

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Bold is pretty misleading. They stopped scriming for other reasons not b/c they were playing Rico. And I think it was Noble Black that called of the scrim not CLG. Maybe someone can verify. I could be mixing up a different scenario.

The two attempts start at 2:21:30 and 2:26:20. I don't know, I said it was barely an attempt but maybe I should have been more specific that it was literally three minutes of gametime across two matches before someone quit out. They did go on to at least start a scrim after though, don't know if it was finished. I'll reword my original message to state how little of an attempt was given to playing the gametype.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/ninja/b/647595870

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Yup, I lurk here from time to time.

 

 

After reading Ninja's comparison of CE to Halo 3 in the context of "slow Halo games," I think it's safe to say Ninja won't be playing CE anytime soon.

 

Probably never even played it in that case.

 

 

Most of the current pro's have a very very limited experience with CE. I'm assuming he didn't mean Halo CE had slow kill times unless that's his personal experience in which it looks like he has plenty of room for improvement there. It's amazing how sprint can create this illusion of increasing the pace of the game where as consistent power weapon cycles seem to "slow it down".

 

There are maybe, maybe a handful of current pro's that have an actual idea of what goes into competitive CE 2v2 but whether or not they can still execute it from there remains debatable. I know Legit used to LAN quite a bit but he was still really far off from who he was lanning with.

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Let's just forget these guys are pros for a second. If someone told you that "richoshit is absolute garbage and if it gets into the settings I'm boycotting the gametype" and then you find out they didn't have the willpower to finish A SINGLE GAME. Would you give a shit about that guys opinion? I surely wouldn't.

Keep in mind these are the guys who were in favor of keeping station 9 in the settings even though that played and spectated like an absolute snooze-fest of zero depth, just so they wouldn't have to learn anything new.

People throwing a tantrum and acting like they might as well put grifball in the settings are being ridiculous.

Let's look at the things the way they are. Does ricochet have hammer/sword only starts? Are the maps nothing but a flat surface? Are there no weapons on the map?

It is more or less nothing but a modified assault. Now I'm not saying it is better than assault, and I agree it is essentially redundant. Ricochet probably isn't  what the HCS season 2 settings need, but half of this thread is now just filled with bashing that is unjustified, even considering the fact that 343 fucked up. I feel like at least someone has to play devil's advocate because a thread that is nothing but a fucking echo chamber gets old real fast.

Fair enough, I can agree with that. I was just stating my experience in watching others play the gametype the other night. I do think there's some fundamental flaws, and some people have already talked about those. But who knows, maybe we need people to actually try a serious match and see what they think, just so people sharing the opinion can at least say they tried it and it confirmed their suspicions.

 

I linked someone else to the "matches" played last night in a previous post, even in it you can hear Noble Black making jokes and messing around, so maybe with a legitimate effort we'll find we like it. I personally don't think so, but we can then at least say an effort was given and these are our thoughts about it.

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Most of the current pro's have a very very limited experience with CE. I'm assuming he didn't mean Halo CE had slow kill times unless that's his personal experience in which it looks like he has plenty of room for improvement there. It's amazing how sprint can create this illusion of increasing the pace of the game where as consistent power weapon cycles seem to "slow it down".

 

There are maybe, maybe a handful of current pro's that have an actual idea of what goes into competitive CE 2v2 but whether or not they can still execute it from there remains debatable. I know Legit used to LAN quite a bit but he was still really far off from who he was lanning with.

 

It's not even sprint, it's just in any of the original trilogy. Once you go into a BTB game, you do feel slow. It's a valid complaint. Don't know why you'd go full ****** and slap on sprint instead of just bumping up the movement speed to something close to pc fps movement. Make everybody happy but whatever- dead horse.

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It's not even sprint, it's just in any of the original trilogy. Once you go into a BTB game, you do feel slow. It's a valid complaint. Don't know why you'd go full ****** and slap on sprint instead of just bumping up the movement speed to something close to pc fps movement. Make everybody happy but whatever- dead horse.

 

well, sprint does help traverse these maps that are incredibly too big.. but as far as kill times goes it just prolongs battles and situations but you're pretty much right. It's beating a dead horse.

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I've said it before but I think Eden would be a really good map if it was scaled down significantly and the spawns were improved. I know this is probably insanely hard work for any forger, but that's the only way I see Eden being acceptable as an official map.

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Let's just forget these guys are pros for a second. If someone told you that "richoshit is absolute garbage and if it gets into the settings I'm boycotting the gametype" and then you find out they didn't have the willpower to finish A SINGLE GAME. Would you give a shit about that guys opinion? I surely wouldn't.

Doesn't that tell you enough about the gametype already?

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Its one of the slowest, basically this halo 3 and CE all with no sprint and these long kill times its just a slower halo.

Dude, I don't even know what to say... just  :wutface:  :wutface:  :wutface:  :wutface:  :wutface:

 

Even if you've never played CE competitively, you should know that it had the fastest kill times of any Halo game. .6 second Pistol, 1 second AR. Next fastest is H5 Pistol 1.1 second, H5 AR, 1 second. H2/3/4 BRs had 1.4+ kill times. 

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Dude, I don't even know what to say... just :wutface::wutface::wutface::wutface::wutface:

 

Even if you've never played CE competitively, you should know that it had the fastest kill times of any Halo game. .6 second Pistol, 1 second AR. Next fastest is H5 Pistol 1.1 second, H5 AR, 1 second. H2/3/4 BRs had 1.4+ kill times.

 

I played CE BTB on Hang 'em yesterday and well...it was not exactly like TS on Lockdown :-)

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Dude, I don't even know what to say... just  :wutface:  :wutface:  :wutface:  :wutface:  :wutface:

 

Even if you've never played CE competitively, you should know that it had the fastest kill times of any Halo game. .6 second Pistol, 1 second AR. Next fastest is H5 Pistol 1.1 second, H5 AR, 1 second. H2/3/4 BRs had 1.4+ kill times. 

 

He doesn't like the average time to kill being that much different than the perfect time to kill.  :kappa:  gotta keep them real close

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Doesn't that tell you enough about the gametype already?

 

 

Actually it tells us those who "attempted" it gave it zero chance.  It tells us literally nothing other than those people are above giving it a chance.

 

As they should be though, this game type is far too casual to play competitively.  As it stands right now this game type wouldn't work in H5 either.  Just adding sprint isn't going to remedy the BIG problems.

 

This game type is NOTHING like Uplink.  I dabble in playing CoD for fun, because AW is a fun game, but having played both games, and having played both game types with and against "try hards" I feel as though I can say that these are apples to oranges.

 

3v4i really thinks that this is very similar to Uplink, the only similarity between the 2 game types is the objective.  That's it!   Uplink works because of the basic mechanics of AW, the ability to double jump is 1 of the main reasons it works, the goal is up high, you have to time a jump to block the shot.  

 

We all understand the kill times portion, but the way the ball acts in AW warfare when it is thrown is much better suited than in H2A, you throw the ball in AW and it arcs high to begin with but drops like a rock, thus stopping goal scoring chances from too far away.  

 

It forces you to push together and set up, whereas the ability to score from Ring 1 on Shrine breaks the game.  You shouldn't be able to score from ball spawn, I feel like that's kind of a obvious....

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I wonder what the pro players contract say about that? I can imagine that companies like Denial, CLG, Cloud 9, Noble and EG have this covered in some way?

I'd assume the player or players would get fined. I think I remember Lethul saying in his stream that the only reason he played the first preseason cup was because he would be given a fine if he didn't play. 

 

So, if they were to do some boycott and refuse to play I would expect there would be fines given out by at least EG and CLG(closely tied with EG being a part of GG and all). I don't know the exact contract details though so I could be totally wrong.

 

However, aPG doesn't have to worry about any of that because we know he didn't sign any contract :kappa:  

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Yup, I lurk here from time to time.

 

 

After reading Ninja's comparison of CE to Halo 3 in the context of "slow Halo games," I think it's safe to say Ninja won't be playing CE anytime soon.

 

Probably never even played it in that case.

He's definitely played it. Watched him play CE 2v2s on stream the other day.

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He doesn't like the average time to kill being that much different than the perfect time to kill.  :kappa:  gotta keep them real close

 

That's a big reason why the moment-to-moment gameplay does not feel as fun and rewarding in later Halo games as compared to CE.  If you get a 3sk, you make montages for it.  If you get a 4sk with a BR, you're just glad lag didn't take it away or an inconsistent burst fire bullet went astray.  

 

Different feels, man.  If you don't land a 4-5sk with a BR, you wonder what the game did wrong because your aiming was precise with the amount of aim assist in these games.  If you don't land consistent 3sk's with the CE Magnum, you question what you're doing wrong and become driven to improve.    

 

Most Halo fans have not experienced this difference because most started after CE.  It's just the unfortunate nature of this franchise's beginnings.

 

Note:  I'm talking about serious time spent with CE on a competitive level, not being the best player when LANning with friends.

 

He's definitely played it. Watched him play CE 2v2s on stream the other day.

 

That you, Jem?  I'm sure he's played it just as much as you have, amirite?   :kappa: <3

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Unfortunate that Ricochet is being trialled so close to the next event. However, things to keep in mind:

  • There really isn't a great time to test gametypes / new maps with a continuous season system, the start of the season seems the most logical so you have the most time to develop before the finals. Obviously you could have started the process ages ago but hindsight is 343/343.
  • There's actually very little understanding of how Ricochet will play out at the top level (top team vs top team with structure behind it). It very well could be a fast scoring game where you take the chances you're afforded while maintaining control - I guess we'll find out.
  • History shows us that this is not the first time nor will it be the last that something has been forced on a competitive community by developers - both CSGO and COD have had maps forced into rotation mere weeks from their major events (much higher stakes than the upcoming LAN).
  • Pros will not boycott anything, not much more to say about that...
  • Lets not for a second pretend that the majority of pros had anything in the form of meaningful feedback into how S2 gametypes developed (Naded is the only notable exception). Any complaining from them about map selection is likely informed from their first play through/s of the map, which matters very little.

Here is what feedback looks like, would love for some pros to even attempt to start to articulate their feelings / thoughts on top level Halo.

 

 

Just to note all the videos apart from the top have actual been digested by the developers and multiple changes have been implemented as a result. What is important is not only how much thought has gone into their own beliefs but also consideration of what they believe the developer is trying to do (in a non-dickish way might I add).

 

 

 

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