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Which new maps for HCS season 2?

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I believe that you are the first person that straight out said that Eden is bad. Care to elaborate a bit more on this? I am genuinely curious to your opinion on this. 

 

It's a complicated and confusing design. It also looks too open in areas, but too much cover in other areas. And what is with the stupid teleporter?

 

We need simple designs that look good and players will be able to pick up easy. Complexion is not really one of those, but it looks very cool and worth a try if we are going to use a confusing map.

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It's a complicated and confusing design.

 

Eden is far from complicated and confusing. Reminiscent of Warlord and Dispatch, it is a very simple asymmetrical design that is immediately accessible to most players. These qualities are also why I have not formally supported the map, as I believe the design has already flatlined. I see minimal to no potential for game play evolution over time with Eden. Most top players have similar gun game capability, thus the most effective way to implement a skill gap at the top level is through maps that have tons of multiple-purpose geometry and strategic movement options. It is also crucial to have ramp to ramp combat where players are engaging in fights while strafing up and down slopes. It is far more difficult to finish off an opponent who is strafing both vertically and horizontally along a slope. Eden falls short in many of these areas. Erupt and Complexion excel in them.

 

Eden is a good design, but safe to a fault. The design could be pushed far further than its current state.

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Thanks for the honest opinions guys, I appreciate it. I believe that we are going to have to agree to disagree here, the design is not confusing at all imo. Granted the layout is quite simple, I disagree that the gameplay is already flatlined. My goal for the map wasn't to make an over the top map with crazy routes and stuff. I wanted to make a map that is accessible for newer players AND for viewers. Most forge maps lack a layout and look that are easy to understand for viewers. The viewers are more important now than in any other halo game in the past.

We need to build a solid viewership again and that cannot be done if we have confusing maps that are hard to figure out what is going on. Personally I believe that I have made a map that provides solid gameplay that will change over time how the map will be played while also catering to the viewers by being pleasent on the eyes.

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I think you missed fateds point waiho. He was saying the gun battles on the map mostly take place within the same level of elevation making gunfights less interesting. I don't think fated would tell someone to make there map more complicated.

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Ah I see, missed that main point indeed. Was doing other stuff as well while I read it. I can understand why one would think that as players are naturally drawn to those areas. I may be stubborn for this, but I don't think that it most battles will occur on the same level. I feel that it most likely will have a nice balance between same levels and different levels.

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There are some dynamic things you can do. I will be on tonight add me and send me message. I can go over it with you. I can see some thing just from the picture you can possibly do. I do think the issue is somewhat fixable.

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There are some dynamic things you can do. I will be on tonight add me and send me message. I can go over it with you. I can see some thing just from the picture you can possibly do. I do think the issue is somewhat fixable.

The earliest I can get on is probably monday lol. I'll add you though, pm me though if you can explain your ideas through text. :)

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I hope to see some forge maps in HCS 2, seeing the same rotation over and over again is getting old. I know the forgers have the talent, skill, and knowledge to pull it off. You just have to push yourselves.

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The first forge testing session by Team Randa happens tonight!
I don't have specifics regarding an exact time, or exactly which maps/gametypes will be played. You can check out this thread, or reference my earlier posts for information on potential test maps. 

 

Tune to Naded's stream to watch:
FHHCS.jpg

 

 

Edit:  Naded is LIVE

http://www.twitch.tv/naded

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Has there been any movement or any type of news regarding selections for maps for season 2? I mean its right around the corner and i am assuming that they would want them in for the pre cups.

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Has there been any movement or any type of news regarding selections for maps for season 2? I mean its right around the corner and i am assuming that they would want them in for the pre cups.

Everything for season 2 will be announced this week, that regards prize pools, gametypes and thus also the addition of Forge maps!

 

Source: 

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Everything for season 2 will be announced this week, that regards prize pools, gametypes and thus also the addition of Forge maps!

 

Source: 

 

 

you da man, thanks

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Official forge map candidates for Season 2 include:

  • Athelon (Team Slayer, Capture the Flag, Ricochet, Neutral Bomb Assault)
  • Eden (Team Slayer, King of the Hill, Oddball)
  • Epicborough (Team Slayer, Capture the Flag, Ricochet)
  • Erupt (Team Slayer, Capture the Flag)
  • Temple (Team Slayer, Capture the Flag, Ricochet, Neutral Bomb Assault)
  • Tesla (Team Slayer, Capture the Flag, Neutral Bomb Assault)
  • Venom (Team Slayer, King of the Hill, Oddball)

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/halo-championship-series-season-2-forge-maps

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Everyone here should contribute to the Waypoint thread... we don't want Tesla when the alternatives are all better.

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Really love Epicborough. By far my favorite out of these, but I'd be content with any of them. Athelon also looks great. Sucks to see both Temple and Tesla on here, they should have just picked one of them to test (and Oracle might be better than both of them). I'd also like to see them test some more Oddball and Hill maps. Eden looks pretty good, but I'm not too crazy about Venom, and I feel like we might end up with just Lockdown and Warlord ball/hill still.

 

As for Ricochet, I'm all for it for the variety, especially if we only get one new map. I'm a little worried about how well it would play competitively, though, as I haven't really seen it played more than once or twice.

 

Edit: The more I think about it, the more it sounds like a worse version of assault (no arm times and the ability to throw the ball/bomb), so I think I'd rather not see it. Ideally, we'll get 2 new maps and that should be enough variety to hold me over.

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I still don't get how Tesla is in there and this is not:

 

Dispute is my favourite symmetrical design in H2A and played great in competitive 4v4 tests for CTF.

Since Dispute is out (would like to hear some words from 343 why they choose the maps that are up on waypoint) I am hoping that Erupt will make the deal because it is the best map in there imo.

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I still don't get how Tesla is in there and this is not:

 

Dispute is my favourite symmetrical design in H2A and played great in competitive 4v4 tests for CTF.

Since Dispute is out (would like to hear some words from 343 why they choose the maps that are up on waypoint) I am hoping that Erupt will make the deal because it is the best map in there imo.

 

Totally forgot about this map. Looks just as good if not better than most of the maps on the current list IMO. It would definitely be interesting to see how they got the list they got and why they left off maps like this, Oracle, Orion, and Complexion (and probably some others that I'm missing, but those seemed to be the most popular ones that got left off).

 

Can I see some pro gameplay on this?

 

Haven't seen this one before, but it looks like it has a lot of potential (and it's pretty aesthetically pleasing, which helps). I wish the video had shown more of the other side of the map, though. The fact that it didn't makes me think not much would happen over there, which could end up in it getting stale pretty soon. Though this is the first I've heard of it, so who knows. Pro gameplay would be cool and maybe some CTF.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt they'll look at anything not on the released list since there isn't much time left. Maybe if they're planning on squeezing in a Season 3 before H5, which I think they should, they can start looking at maps earlier while Season 2 is going on in case the one(s) selected don't work out very well. I don't really understand why they waited so long to look at these, it's almost guaranteed they'll have to be tweaked constantly throughout the season. Most of them still have pretty big issues with kill boundaries and spawns from what I've heard, and since they still haven't even picked which maps are in... I'm glad they're adding new maps, but I'm definitely worried it'll cause some issues for the first few tournaments or so at least.

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I don't really understand why they waited so long to look at these, it's almost guaranteed they'll have to be tweaked constantly throughout the season. Most of them still have pretty big issues with kill boundaries and spawns from what I've heard, and since they still haven't even picked which maps are in... I'm glad they're adding new maps, but I'm definitely worried it'll cause some issues for the first few tournaments or so at least.

 

Kill boundaries are a non-issue.  Sure, they can be exploited right now, but any map that gets chosen for HCS will be sealed up tightly before it goes into matchmaking or tournament play.  Spawning is a legitimate concern.  Several of these maps were made at the last second, when we found out they were looking for forge maps.  Even the maps that have been around a while have been under-tested.

 

343 should have announced that they were looking for HCS maps at least a month earlier.  It seems almost like a last minute decision to add forge maps, and the quality of the submissions suffered as a result of that.  It's conceivable that none of the maps will prove to be fit for tournament play.

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Untestable:

6-Venom. Map makes no sense structurally. Aesthetically the map looks good, however, there’d be no way for this map to work in competitive halo.

5-Athelon. Same thing as venom. Way too big with no chance, in my opinion, of being played competitively

4-Erupt. Not a mad map size but too many obstacles giving too many routes for players to take. This leads to more one on one battles and no power positions and encourages running together(and not in a good way.)

 

Testable

3-Epicborough. I don’t like the map layout but it’s a decently sized map. I don’t think it will be picked for competition but it can be tested. In this map, you can’t see anything from anywhere until you walk through a tunnel that takes five seconds to get through with no real escape. If I was forced to play this map, it wouldn’t be awful but it wouldn’t be good.

2-Eden. Larger map size but a lot more open. Definitely testable but I don’t think it has a good chance of making it compared to the others.

1-Temple. Nothing really interesting about this map as it is just another simplex/midship map but because it tries to look better aesthetically, it loses some of its game play value.

 

As other pros have stated, I don’t think that any of the forge maps that have a chance of getting into season 2 are worth putting in. Most of the maps that 343 has for testing include large, long tunnels which are unfit for competitive Halo. There are other maps that are better and should have a shot at actually securing a spot as THE forge map. My favorite map so far has been oracle(no surprise) with elixir as a close second with Hive right behind that.. Elixir just needs to be reimagined as it is a little too simple, but it is basically the type of map that we want to play on. It is open, it has power positions located in the middle of the map. The map uses obstacles with a small area(LxW) so that you can choose which line of sight you want to see from.  This is something that only Tesla has implemented throughout the map(from the 7) and is necessary when creating for maps for competitive halo in my opinion.

 

Also, if we are implementing forge maps with the idea that they should be played with hill/ball, we would then need to make each best of 5 series have only one slayer in them. We are currently oversaturated with ball/hill as both lockout and warlock hill/ball play very well. We need more slayers and flags.

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maps... include large, long tunnels which are unfit for competitive Halo. 

 

Wait, don't you love Station 9?

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