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Jmacz

Super Cereal Sprint Montage

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"This is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful wife."

 

I appreciate the video.  This quote from Sal1ent / Josh Holmes still worries me, though.

 

Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills.

 

When in Halo is it better for gameplay to have someone run away from a fight rather than actually fight?  This isn't like Quake where health needs to be picked up and there is sufficient item collecting meta to attribute meaningfulness to an indecisive battle.  This is Halo, or at least that's what I think the developers want it to be.  Maybe I'm wrong.  But I know they are not fulfilling their own goal, as quote below, again from Mr. Holmes.

 

 

 

When Halo is working well there is structure and flow to the combat, with a unique back-and-forth, move / counter-move experience that provides depth and opportunities to enhance the skill gap between players.

 

Where is the structure and flow, the unique back-and-forth, when only one player is attacking, and the other is running away?  Running away cannot be called a move because it does not advance the game in its own right, not even on the front of equal opportunity, in the case of Sprint.  There is no depth; it's a one-dimensional movement, a one trick pony.  Balancing a mechanic intended to create imbalance is the biggest fallacy I have ever encountered.

 

Josh Holmes is going to get a reply to that tweet of his.

 

Edit: I don't know if this was the best place to drop this rant of mine, but at the very least I hope the topic got bumped to stay on the first page.

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I agree with you and your argument, but it should be noted that the skill of the players involved in this video is probably not a good marker of how useful sprint is in escaping. Not totally sold on anything until I see pros play.

 

Right after I say this I bet Ola will f*cking wizard his way out of every fight with sprint. lol

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I said I was going to do this so I did, it's nothing special but why the hell not. Nothing else is working. After the last video I made someone made one that now has 3,000+ views and got  a response from Josh Holmes so I figure I post more. He wants a video of getting away from death in H1/2/3 maybe that's what I'll do next, I mean show him why that isn't true.

 

 

Copy and pasting the description so no one has to go to youtube to read it.

 

Just a handful of clips I recorded of me getting out of situations I should of died in while playing the Halo 5 Beta. All clips were captured the last three days I played the game. Clips from other games are mostly just random, though a few show the differences in trying to escape situations in other games.

 

Good video, but the ending text ruined it. They NEED to take Sprint out of everything, not just 4v4. Good video otherwise.

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Post on waypoint if you haven't already. Sick choice of songs and sick sprinting dude.

 

@@Dexterous you'll be able to escape just the same against good players you'd just have to cut more corners.

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Good video, but the ending text ruined it. They NEED to take Sprint out of everything, not just 4v4. Good video otherwise.

 

Yes, and no. The fact is that sadly there are people who want sprint in Halo and they will probably bitch if it's taken out. Not that they are right, but they have a right to their opinion no matter how wrong it is. And I don't see much harm in having sprint in the things I mentioned. Having it in campaign isn't going to mess with anything. You die in one kill in Swat, and have no shields in breakout (though if sprint is kept ohk melee's needs to be fixed). I'm not 100% sure about BTB but bigger maps, open sight lines, more players, more power weapons, and vehicles seem to all help balance sprint out.

 

I'd be 100% behind removing sprint completley, I feel what I said at the end may help in not offending as many casuals which I was trying to avoid. And also @@Stephander it is posted on Waypoint, just bumped the thread.

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/super-cereal-sprint-montage/12767cea-02ec-49d7-8c55-fd4a92747f36/posts?page=1#post17

 

Also on r/halo

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2rliez/super_cereal_sprint_montage/

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Yes, and no. The fact is that sadly there are people who want sprint in Halo and they will probably bitch if it's taken out. Not that they are right, but they have a right to their opinion no matter how wrong it is. And I don't see much harm in having sprint in the things I mentioned. Having it in campaign isn't going to mess with anything. You die in one kill in Swat, and have no shields in breakout (though if sprint is kept ohk melee's needs to be fixed). I'm not 100% sure about BTB but bigger maps, open sight lines, more players, more power weapons, and vehicles seem to all help balance sprint out.

 

I'd be 100% behind removing sprint completley, I feel what I said at the end may help in not offending as many casuals which I was trying to avoid. And also @@Stephander it is posted on Waypoint, just bumped the thread.

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/super-cereal-sprint-montage/12767cea-02ec-49d7-8c55-fd4a92747f36/posts?page=1#post17

 

Also on r/halo

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2rliez/super_cereal_sprint_montage/

 

 

Maybe I am in the minority of BTB players, but I don't want anything like Sprint or AA's in BTB. Just because something "sucked slightly less" than usual in a BTB environment, doesn't mean it was good for the game in general. 

 

BTB in 2/3 is far superior to Reach/H4. 

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Maybe I am in the minority of BTB players, but I don't want anything like Sprint or AA's in BTB. Just because something "sucked slightly less" than usual in a BTB environment, doesn't mean it was good for the game in general. 

 

BTB in 2/3 is far superior to Reach/H4. 

 

I admit I don't play much BTB, it was more of an assumption on my part. Mostly based off the fact that BTB in Halo 4 was the most enjoyable playlist for me, as that game seemed to made for BTB. That was the only one I was unsure of as I don't see any issues with sprint in Swat or Breakout (besides 1hk melee's) because of the very fast kill times.

 

I'll make an annotation on my video at the end about the BTB thing. Edit: For some reason youtube won't let me add an annotation, not sure why I enabled it.

 

 

 

On a side not I also made this video.

 

 

No one here probably has to see this as it is more for people from r/halo and waypoint so I don't need to make the same post for 30 different people lol.

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I'm actually surprised with the response I'm getting from this on other websites, even though people are disagreeing with me they seem willing to actually talk about it and not dismiss me as a crybaby. I didn't think I'd be having actual back and forth civil arguments with people who disagree with me, it must be the music.

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Great job man. Shame that it's a fallacy that 343 will actually examine evidence and remove sprint.

Fuckin lol.

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Nice second vid @@Jmacz. Did you send that one to Josh? He itterally does need things like that spelled out for him. They don't browse their own forums so. Sitting wondering how much funner h5 would be with breakout kill Times across the board.

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I admit I don't play much BTB, it was more of an assumption on my part. Mostly based off the fact that BTB in Halo 4 was the most enjoyable playlist for me, as that game seemed to made for BTB. That was the only one I was unsure of as I don't see any issues with sprint in Swat or Breakout (besides 1hk melee's) because of the very fast kill times.

 

I'll make an annotation on my video at the end about the BTB thing. Edit: For some reason youtube won't let me add an annotation, not sure why I enabled it.

 

 

 

On a side not I also made this video.

 

 

No one here probably has to see this as it is more for people from r/halo and waypoint so I don't need to make the same post for 30 different people lol.

Do you know what i just realised. The static shield nerf that they added actually cause you to run away further from the fight, taking you even further away from the combat area, and prolonging the cat & mouse chase even more. It actually slows down gameplay even more.

 

LOL

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The people saying that you could run away just as easily in other Halo games are really pissing me off now. Do they not understand that to chase a guy down they too have to sprint and thrust after the guy with no ability to shoot? Sure, in past games people would turn and duck their head and try to run away but they would only be able to move at the same speed as their pursuer who has the ability to keep shooting and most of the time kill you. 

 

At this point I think these people are in denial and are afraid to admit that Halo is no longer Halo and 343i can do no wrong and whatever they say is gospel. 

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"oh yeah all u have to do is chase them around that corner where 3 other guys are waiting to kill u"

 

idk what they say, I learned this years ago as FPS 101, don't chase someone you can't see anymore. 

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My favorite bad response to these posts on other forums is that "you only got away in the video because of X mistake, normally a good player/team will call out and kill you"

 

Bro...its almost universally the good players that dont want sprint. That should tell you something.

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Halo is so very dead. 343i does not understand the game at all.

They don't understand game design in general. Although I'm sure really MS is making them put it in though. I don't feel sorry for them though, the other aspects of the game they clearly designed themselves are poorly designed/not well thought out. H5 in it's current iteration could be a much more interesting/competitive game if they were smarter.

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"This is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful wife."

 

I appreciate the video.  This quote from Sal1ent / Josh Holmes still worries me, though.

 

 

When in Halo is it better for gameplay to have someone run away from a fight rather than actually fight?  This isn't like Quake where health needs to be picked up and there is sufficient item collecting meta to attribute meaningfulness to an indecisive battle.  This is Halo, or at least that's what I think the developers want it to be.  Maybe I'm wrong.  But I know they are not fulfilling their own goal, as quote below, again from Mr. Holmes.

 

 

 

 

Where is the structure and flow, the unique back-and-forth, when only one player is attacking, and the other is running away?  Running away cannot be called a move because it does not advance the game in its own right, not even on the front of equal opportunity, in the case of Sprint.  There is no depth; it's a one-dimensional movement, a one trick pony.  Balancing a mechanic intended to create imbalance is the biggest fallacy I have ever encountered.

 

Josh Holmes is going to get a reply to that tweet of his.

 

Edit: I don't know if this was the best place to drop this rant of mine, but at the very least I hope the topic got bumped to stay on the first page.

 

This might sound wierd, but he is right in principle. Being fucked just because you are weak is something I've always hated in halo because it gives noobs the chance to get clean up kills when they would have lost 15-0 in a  1v1 game. This is also why halo games nowadays only revolves around team shot, as it is not an option to kill two players back to back even if you are twice as good as them.

You can easily tell something is fucked when people call anything less than a perfect kill a "choke" when it should be the norm.

Now, I definetly agree with you that they are not fulfilling their own goal because then h5 would actually be a good game.

Even if we just had little things like If we had non-rechargable health and faster power weapon timers, being able to get away wouldn't be such of a problem, whether with sprint or something else.

 

 While I do agree with the central message of this thread and video, the situations that can be seen in it won't ever happen at a high level and really aren't why sprint is bad for Halo in general.

What sprint really fucks with is besides making movement patterns unpredictable, is the fact that a team of good players working together can be and shoot at literally every place on the map to and just roll over you unless you do the exact same thing.

This in turn means the game either comes to a complete standstill because bolth teams are just trying to bait each other and nothing happening, or one team getting the advantage and now melting the other with team shot because they were 2 down and can't set up again over and over.

 

Actually skillful movement options  would empower the individual and make halo less boring and increase the skill gap, but thats obviously not what we have or what we are ever going to get.

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Awesome video - about time something like this was made. Now we just need one that shows the same scenario on the same map in different titles. ie Midship h2, h3, h5, say someone pushing you while you are P2 and you trying to escape?

 

Haha as if you are getting away in H2 or 3 - those are straight 1v1 battles no backing out. Skill vs Skill, if you lose you lose

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@@KurtiZ we don't even need video evidence. As @@xSociety said, the simple fact you can't move the same speed as ssomeone sprinting while damaging him further is enough to put an end to the debate. The devs know this, their 14 year old esque retorts are only so because they have an agenda and they just can't say "fawk off we don't care, we're chasing cod sales". Stupid, but of course admitting it would only be more stupid

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This video should silence sprint supporters indefinitely 

i just had a waypointer tell me that because ninja went 23-1 without using sprint, but managed to run away for the entire game the game after, that there is a skill gap and that sprint is fine. 

 

reasoning and creating a coherent sentence without the use of fallacy seems to be a hard task for a select few.

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Nice second vid @@Jmacz. Did you send that one to Josh? He itterally does need things like that spelled out for him. They don't browse their own forums so. Sitting wondering how much funner h5 would be with breakout kill Times across the board.

 I went to bed right after I made that, I work night crew so I'm up strange hours of the day. I'm waiting to see him tweet so I know he's looking at his twitter so I can get a response, he hasn't made a tweet for 19 hours as of right now.

 

 

Do you know what i just realised. The static shield nerf that they added actually cause you to run away further from the fight, taking you even further away from the combat area, and prolonging the cat & mouse chase even more. It actually slows down gameplay even more.

 

LOL

 

I've also realized something new that's bad about sprint because of these videos, I'm not 100% sure if it's been in the past two Halo's but now it takes a second or two to reach top sprinting speed. This means who ever starts sprinting first (the guy running in most cases) gains even more ground on his opponent for every second he's not at top sprinting speed. It's only a second difference at most, but as you see in the breakdown clip I made that was all I needed to get my shields back.

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