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Velo

Push Fast TTK, Not Dropping Sprint

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Lot of people in this thread that don't really understand where Halo's problems stem from. It's not TTK on the assault rifle and smg, it's TTK times decrease for perfect shots for the main utility weapon that makes all the difference.

 Perfect kills really arent that hard to get, and close range it is not that easy to escape even with sprint and thruster. The problem is the further the range of your opponent the easier it gets for him to just sprint away. However if you lower the ttk enough to make it possible to easily kill people at range you will get absolutely murdered up close,  moreso with teamshot. Coupled with the slow powerweapon timers we are getting, this will make for a campy game.

 

The reason a fast ttk worked in CE was because it was hard to get a perfect kill (unlike halo 5) , you cant just sprint away when you are out of position (unlike halo 5) and it was primarily a 2v2 game (not as important but worth mentioning). A faster ttk for precision rifles whilekeeping sprint is just going to Smg'ify the game, which why  automatics mater in the discussion.

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 Perfec kills really arent that hard to get, and close range it is not that easy to escape even with sprint and thruster. The problem is the further the range of your opponent the easier it gets for him to just sprint away. However if you lower the ttk enough to make it possible to easily kill people at range you will get absolutely murdered up close,  moreso with teamshot. Coupled with the slow powerweapon timers we are getting, this will make for a campy game.

 

The reason a fast ttk worked in CE was because it was hard to get a perfect kill (unlike halo 5) , you cant just sprint away when you are out of position (unlike halo 5) and it was primarily a 2v2 game (not as important but worth mentioning). A faster ttk for precision rifles whilekeeping sprint is just going to Smg'ify the game, which why  automatics mater in the discussion.

 

Yeah...I'm not sure what the answer is after watching the beta streams this morning. The game is beyond slow paced. It just looks boring as sin. Every game ends in the last minute or runs out of time..It looks horrible.

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I began trying to post a reply, but took it out because I wasn't sure how to say it. @@Velo, you are only partly right, but more wrong than right. I believe cT was trying to say that short perfect TTK was desired but that the problem overall was how people could escape and fire fights were not resolved because TTK was lengthened and/or people could run away.

 

The problem with sprint is not fixed by shortening the TTK for the perfect kill, because sprint is still there to help facilitate escape more often than if you did not have sprint. In other words, if you reduce the perfect TTK to prevent sprint from being used as an escape mechanism in nearly every case, then you facilitate the perfect TTK too often and reduce Halo to a drop on shot shooter.

 

What cT wanted to see was a return to a perfect kill under 1 second without sprint, but not have the perfect kill be a common occurrence. At least that is my understanding.

 

What we all want to see is the fire fights resolving in the most typical case no one thinking they can run away, no incentives, no available mechanic. Sprint needs to be removed.

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I began trying to post a reply, but took it out because I wasn't sure how to say it. @@Velo, you are only partly right, but more wrong than right. I believe cT was trying to say that short perfect TTK was desired but that the problem overall was how people could escape and fire fights were not resolved because TTK was lengthened and/or people could run away.

 

The problem with sprint is not fixed by shortening the TTK for the perfect kill, because sprint is still there to help facilitate escape more often than if you did not have sprint. In other words, if you reduce the perfect TTK to prevent sprint from being used as an escape mechanism in nearly every case, then you facilitate the perfect TTK too often and reduce Halo to a drop on shot shooter.

 

What cT wanted to see was a return to a perfect kill under 1 second without sprint, but not have the perfect kill be a common occurrence. At least that is my understanding.

 

What we all want to see is the fire fights resolving in the most typical case no one thinking they can run away, no incentives, no available mechanic. Sprint needs to be removed.

Yeah, I understand all that, we all know that sprint is not going to be removed. People are truly capable of incredible delusion and this forum is a perfect example. There is not a chance in the world thag sprint will be removed, yet beyond has a poll about it and people keep giving feedback about it. It will not happen. 343i loves sprint, they love he make believe counter they came up with. There's is zero chance it will be removed.

 

For the people who keep saying the beta is for feedback..it's not. It's simply not. It is for getting a large data set to analyze to make sure match making works properly. Big console game dev's like 343i do not overall mechanics like removing sprint.

 

 

 

The real answer that I know is hard to swallow for this forum and personally is that Halo is done and we all know it with the confirmation of what the future will look like with this beta. I just hope MCC works some day but big tournaments are done for me. Halo 4 was an incredibly boring game to watch and h5 is worse. There's no tension in the game. Just random encounters and people playing defensively.

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Just avoid buying Halo 5. Save yourself the money. Here is the reality.

 

343i has two games off of which you can judge them. Halo 4 was a competitive disaster. MCC has been on the market for two months and still had problems. It shows they are inept in more than one department.

 

Halo 5 is not going to be competitively viable. People can say "Oh, it's a beta," but games rarely change significantly from the beta to release. Based on what 343i employees have been saying, the direction they want to take Halo is simply different than ours. Unfortunately, that means we're screwed. 

 

There is no way (0% chance) Halo 5 becomes a large-scale competitive game. Best case scenario is something slightly better than Halo 4 which, to me, is a failure and disservice to the franchise. That's just how it is.

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Just avoid buying Halo 5. Save yourself the money. Here is the reality.

 

343i has two games off of which you can judge them. Halo 4 was a competitive disaster. MCC has been on the market for two months and still had problems. It shows they are inept in more than one department.

 

Halo 5 is not going to be competitively viable. People can say "Oh, it's a beta," but games rarely change significantly from the beta to release. Based on what 343i employees have been saying, the direction they want to take Halo is simply different than ours. Unfortunately, that means we're screwed. 

 

There is no way (0% chance) Halo 5 becomes a large-scale competitive game. Best case scenario is something slightly better than Halo 4 which, to me, is a failure and disservice to the franchise. That's just how it is.

 

Yeah, I'm not. I just need to find the next girl to bang to get over the last one.

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@@Velo, the problem is that your solution isn't a good solution either. As I said, to reduce sprint as an escape mechanism in most cases, the perfect kill would have to be common, which would reduce Halo to a drop on shot shooter. Your solution isn't going to save Halo. Sprint and the escape it offers (nerf'd as it might be with 343's balancing act) is actually better, though far from ideal.

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Yeah, I understand all that, we all know that sprint is not going to be removed. People are truly capable of incredible delusion and this forum is a perfect example. There is not a chance in the world thag sprint will be removed, yet beyond has a poll about it and people keep giving feedback about it. It will not happen. 343i loves sprint, they love he make believe counter they came up with. There's is zero chance it will be removed.

 

For the people who keep saying the beta is for feedback..it's not. It's simply not. It is for getting a large data set to analyze to make sure match making works properly. Big console game dev's like 343i do not overall mechanics like removing sprint.

 

 

 

The real answer that I know is hard to swallow for this forum and personally is that Halo is done and we all know it with the confirmation of what the future will look like with this beta. I just hope MCC works some day but big tournaments are done for me. Halo 4 was an incredibly boring game to watch and h5 is worse. There's no tension in the game. Just random encounters and people playing defensively.

If they want to keep saying this game is built with "esports in mind" they kind have to listen to out feedback. Unless they're complete liars. They have lied in the past so we'll see. 

 

The problem with the feed back is everyone keeps saying " remove sprint". 343i does not want to REMOVE things. They don't seem like they're willing to completely remove a mechanic they've designed to try and fit in the game. 

 

Telling 343i removing sprint is fine, but not when that's your only solution.

 

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@@Velo, the problem is that your solution isn't a good solution either. As I said, to reduce sprint as an escape mechanism in most cases, the perfect kill would have to be common, which would reduce Halo to a drop on shot shooter. Your solution isn't going to save Halo. Sprint and the escape it offers (nerf'd as it might be with 343's balancing act) is actually better, though far from ideal.

I didn't say it was a 'solution'. I said it's the only option. After reading your post and others, I don't think it's even a good option. It would just make games even slower. So there is no solution because sprint isn't going anywhere. I don't know why you're trying to turn this into an argument. It's not complicated, sprint WILL NOT BE REMOVED FROM HALO 5. If you don't understand that at this point, you should be institutionalized. 

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If they want to keep saying this game is built with "esports in mind" they kind have to listen to out feedback. Unless they're complete liars. They have lied in the past so we'll see. 

 

The problem with the feed back is everyone keeps saying " remove sprint". 343i does not want to REMOVE things. They don't seem like they're willing to completely remove a mechanic they've designed to try and fit in the game. 

 

Telling 343i removing sprint is fine, but not when that's your only solution.

 

 

Do you honestly believe they care that much about eSports? If they did, they wouldn't make their games competitive garbage. They just want you to open your wallet on release day.

 

It's not complicated, sprint WILL NOT BE REMOVED FROM HALO 5. If you don't understand that at this point, you should be institutionalized. 

 

 

Exactly. Therefore, the game will be horrible, so why bother buying it?

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I didn't say it was a 'solution'. I said it's the only option. After reading your post and others, I don't think it's even a good option. It would just make games even slower. So there is no solution because sprint isn't going anywhere. I don't know why you're trying to turn this into an argument. It's not complicated, sprint WILL NOT BE REMOVED FROM HALO 5. If you don't understand that at this point, you should be institutionalized. 

hmmm

 

All I was saying is that your solution would make it worse.

 

as for making it an argument, I was just pointing something out.

 

as for institutionalizing me for believing sprint could be removed... lol...

 

please calm down.

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Do you honestly believe they care that much about eSports? If they did, they wouldn't make their games competitive garbage. They just want you to open your wallet on release day.

 

 

Exactly. Therefore, the game will be horrible, so why bother buying it?

 

Well I'm not buying it. It's hard to know whether 343i actually wants to make a competitive game; what is clear though, is that 343i does not understand what makes a competitive game.

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Do you honestly believe they care that much about eSports? If they did, they wouldn't make their games competitive garbage. They just want you to open your wallet on release day.

 

 

Exactly. Therefore, the game will be horrible, so why bother buying it?

It's not about whether i believe it or not. It's the fact they've publicly said it. Meaning if they are going to openly say things like that, they better act towards it. Or else they look like straight up liars like they have in the past. Let's see if 343i is going to do it again. 

 

The game can still be competitive with sprint it. One of the problems is that you guys won't accept that idea AT ALL. 

 

Edit: being negged is a prime example of negative the attitude to towards sprint is. Any thing that can be said about sprint in a positive way, you will be negged. 

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OK. Here's my perspective.

 

Sprint is not the thing to focus our debate on. 343 have showed a clear lack of understanding (if you're reading this, prove me wrong) of its many negative effects on the game, either that or ignorance; the only thing they understand is we want it gone.

 

What we need to drill into 343's heads is that Halo 5's base movement needs to be fixed; I find it hypocritical that @Sal1ent called the movement of the past games "underdeveloped" when we had a better strafe years and years ago. (How to fix the strafe: remove that "idle" frame in between changing directions that has been there since Reach--part of the effectiveness of strafing is skillful unpredictability, and this ruins that. Next, make the acceleration instantaneous from 0 to full base speed (keep Sprint acceleration) in order to enhance unpredictability further.)

 

Why is this the thing to focus on? I still think there's a chance we could get a no-sprint competitive playlis*--do you remember how many threads were made about that a few years ago? That would get us hyped so much. If not, then the only way to enjoy Halo 5 is going to be Promod; they can fix poor weapon balancing, remove Sprint, and use good Forge maps, but they cannot fix an inherent flaw like a clunky strafe.

 

*And for anyone who mentions community division, I want to believe that in a game supported for competitive play by the developers, players of all kinds will appreciate the better game design over the worse, no matter how they've learned to adapt in the past.

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It's not about whether i believe it or not. It's the fact they've publicly said it. Meaning if they are going to openly say things like that, they better act towards it. Or else they look like straight up liars like they have in the past. Let's see if 343i is going to do it again. 

 

The game can still be competitive with sprint it. One of the problems is that you guys won't accept that idea AT ALL. 

 

Dude, what are you talking about? Show me and everyone else where 343i stated they would make MAJOR GAME ALTERING CHANGES. They are purposely ambiguous in how much they will change. They can say it's a beta and we're here for feedback but that is completely meaningless without: here's the degree of change we're open to, here is a mechanism for you to tell us how to make changes. 

 

 

 

 

Random fucking tweets and thousands of random statements on various halo forums is not going to change anything, that's laughable ridiculous.

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Dude, what are you talking about? Show me and everyone else where 343i stated they would make MAJOR GAME ALTERING CHANGES. They are purposely ambiguous in how much they will change. They can say it's a beta and we're here for feedback but that is completely meaningless without: here's the degree of change we're open to, here is a mechanism for you to tell us how to make changes. 

 

 

 

 

Random fucking tweets and thousands of random statements on various halo forums is not going to change anything, that's laughable ridiculous.

? You show me where i said that 343i stated they would make MAJOR GAME ALTERING CHANGES

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What we need to drill into 343's heads is that Halo 5's base movement needs to be fixed; I find it hypocritical that @Sal1ent called the movement of the past games "underdeveloped" when we had a better strafe years and years ago. (How to fix the strafe: remove that "idle" frame in between changing directions that has been there since Reach--part of the effectiveness of strafing is skillful unpredictability, and this ruins that. Next, make the acceleration instantaneous from 0 to full base speed

This is important. We haven't had acceptable strafing mechanics since halo 2. I wonder what the justification is for the movement engine not allowing for strafing...

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Well I'm not buying it. It's hard to know whether 343i actually wants to make a competitive game; what is clear though, is that 343i does not understand what makes a competitive game.

 

They've read what we, as the competitive community, have had to say. They chose to not act on it. It's not a matter of understanding. I think they just don't care or want to take the game in a competitive direction.

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Why help a bad game?

 

It may not be bad if you helped make it better. I'd rather play something enjoyable than bad, but that's just me. 

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This is important. We haven't had acceptable strafing mechanics since halo 2. I wonder what the justification is for the movement engine not allowing for strafing...

This started most noticeably in Halo Reach with Bungie. With default settings strafing was absolutely awful, but of course we had bigger problems to worry about, namely bloom and Sprint. They destroyed jumping probably in the name of the Jetpack, and strafing in the name of Sprint and Evade. Whether this "reasoning" carried into Halo 4 with 343 is uncertain, but some of the effects remained. Obviously Halo 5 shows no improvement, and given Sprint and Thruster are now default abilities, it would not surprise me if they thought those things ample remedy for unacceptable strafing mechanics, not not a justification.

 

Whatever their intentions are, it doesn't feel like Halo. One of the few benefits console gaming has over the PC is the left stick (sorry, southpaws), as it makes strafing intuitive and allows unparalleled creativity. Hopefully 343 realizes the benefits of active, omnidirectional base movement over passive, linear, more artificial options like Sprint and Thruster.

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I'd rather play something enjoyable than bad, but that's just me.

Sounds like you should be playing a game other than halo 5 then since it's going to be a bad game, no matter what we do.

 

The beta is being used to make gameplay tweaks when it really needs overhauls.

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? You show me where i said that 343i stated they would make MAJOR GAME ALTERING CHANGES

Did you not say that 343i is taking feedback and that's why we should give it?

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Sounds like you should be playing a game other than halo 5 then since it's going to be a bad game, no matter what we do.

 

The beta is being used to make gameplay tweaks when it really needs overhauls.

I disagree. If 343i and the communities actually worked "with" each other it could be a decent "new" Halo experience. Instead we consist on being as stubborn as 343i. 

 

I'd rather hear actually solutions to how to balance sprint than all of this negativity towards the game. I understand the game isn't CE or Halo 2 or even Halo 3, but it still has the potential to be a decent shooter. Better than what we are being offered as of late. 

 

Just as long as 343i is actually willing to listen to our feed back. 

 

it'd be nice if 343i let us know what they're willing to tweak, add, remove. 

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