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MrGreenWithAGun

What does 3v3 gain or lose?

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I would like to ask those that have played Halo CE a lot in the past what do you gain or lose in the Slayer game play experience if you change the teams from 2v2 to 3v3 (or even 4v4)? And I don't mean "...another teammate...", but what in the way of game play dynamics do you feel you would either gain or lose if the teams were increased in size even by just one player per team?

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The more players you add, the less individual skill is rewarded. Strength in numbers.

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Setups are admittedly easier to pull off with 3s than 2s (obviously). In 3s, most of the setups I know function best with two people holding down choke points with the third rotating in with one of them with fresh power weapon ammo.

 

They're still possible with 2s, but require some timing and awareness to pull off. They're also a lot easier to break if the other team knows the strat and can outshoot one of the positions. So, in the end, 3s are much more forgiving, while 2s require more individual input.

 

4v4's are not CE's finest hour, and that is reflected on the cluster fuck it becomes on maps like Derelict and Wizard.

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2 players can kill 3 players just as easy as 1 player can kill 2 players so it's easier to get the whole team dead in 3v3. The gameplay becomes less intense. In 2v2 it's easier to understand where your team mate is at all times that's why it's harder to get a double kill in 2v2 or the whole team dead than it is in 3v3. in 4v4 it's harder for 2 players to kill 4 players. 3v3 basically dumbs down gameplay because plays become a lot easier to make.

 

Essentially 2 players can run a whole team in 3v3 but 2 players can't run a whole team in 4v4 and in 2v2 there is only 2 players so plays become just as balanced as 4v4

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The more players you add, the less individual skill is rewarded. Strength in numbers.

In general or specifically in CE?

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2v2s for CE require so much more thought process. when you add that extra player it becomes less predictable and more random, you no longer HAVE to be in that certain position because you have more teamates, while in 2v2 you always have to be in the better position. basically in 3v3 you can get away with some dumb shit like bad positioning

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Without the flowery language; as far as I can see; the maps are very small, grenades very powerful and you always spawn near your teammates. So there tends to be an overabundance of spawn killing. 

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In general or specifically in CE?

in terms of Halo games its CE specific. no other Halo title enforces individual skill in a 2v2 as much as CE

reasons are the sequels having increased killtimes and hitboxes, no lead, casualized weapon variation and useage, strafing speed,...

 

but ofc your statement also applies to the other Halos and games in general, just on a much less degree

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Kill times, spawn system and a lot of the maps (Chillout for example) simply work better with 2v2.

 

4v4 Halo: CE that I've played is very fun, but it's nuts. It's chaotic and I spend most of my time reloading. CE just works better 2v2.

 

Halo 2+ have higher kill times and don't work as well but are still good fun 2v2 games.

Ironically, both H1 and H2 are better when played 2v2, but for COMPLETELY different reasons.

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Ironically, both H1 and H2 are better when played 2v2, but for COMPLETELY different reasons.

 

Halo in general just plays better 2v2. Been saying this since the very beginning 

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Halo in general just plays better 2v2. Been saying this since the very beginning

I've always been a staunch defender of 4v4 Halo, but you know what? Halo is an arena shooter at its rooty-roots. And there are no arena shooters that are played 4v4. It's impossible to defend 4v4 over 2v2 in any specific Halo game, even if 4v4 works pretty well.

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I've always been a staunch defender of 4v4 Halo, but you know what? Halo is an arena shooter at its rooty-roots. And there are no arena shooters that are played 4v4. It's impossible to defend 4v4 over 2v2 in any specific Halo game, even if 4v4 works pretty well.

so the ultimate halo experience is 1v1 then, ook 

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so the ultimate halo experience is 1v1 then, ook

Halo has nowhere near the mobility of a game like Quake, nor the power item proliferation and map design. So no.

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Halo has nowhere near the mobility of a game like Quake, nor the power item proliferation and map design. So no.

 

Then why would 2v2 be better than 4v4 in any other halo aside from CE? Because it had arena shooter elements in Halo 1? That's like calling English German beause English was partially derived from German, and then trying to argue that English is better spoken with Germanic grammar with zero Latin influence.

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Then why would 2v2 be better than 4v4 in any other halo aside from CE? Because it had arena shooter elements in Halo 1? That's like calling English German beause English was partially derived from German, and then trying to argue that English is better spoken with Germanic grammar with zero Latin influence.

Ignoring your analogy because I have absolutely no idea how to respond to it, think about how Lockout TS plays in 4s. Now think about how it would play with 2s.

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Ignoring your analogy because I have absolutely no idea how to respond to it, think about how Lockout TS plays in 4s. Now think about how it would play with 2s.

 

Lockout TS is the one gametype in 2 and 3 that I would accept an argument saying that it plays better in 2s than 4s. Not a coincidence that it was a gametype that people hated playing at a high level with organized teams and bored spectators. However, for the rest of the gametypes in 2 and 3 they objectively play better and require more teamwork and smarts in 4s. I'm sure I don't even have to mention the fact that Objective gametypes are utter trash in 2s, and better teams would crush hard on OBJ which clearly shows that there is a complete different dimension that increases the difficulty of the game in a natural way when playing competitive halo 2, 3 in a 4v4 setting.

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Lockout TS is the one gametype in 2 and 3 that I would accept an argument saying that it plays better in 2s than 4s. Not a coincidence that it was a gametype that people hated playing at a high level with organized teams and bored spectators. However, for the rest of the gametypes in 2 and 3 they objectively play better and require more teamwork and smarts in 4s.

Halo 2 is an absolute snorefest on any TS gametype when all the powerups are currently in hand, the map doesn't matter (and all 2v2 objective is stupid except ball). The exceptions are Midship and Warlock which don't have important power items, and their wide-open design combined with a shitty starting weapon completely removes the intelligence from the combat - you don't outsmart your opponent, you just outshoot them and get top control.

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Halo 2 is an absolute snorefest on any TS gametype when all the powerups are currently in hand, the map doesn't matter (and all 2v2 objective is stupid except ball). The exceptions are Midship and Warlock which don't have important power items, and their wide-open design combined with a shitty starting weapon completely removes the intelligence from the combat - you don't outsmart your opponent, you just outshoot them and get top control.

 

maybe you didn't outsmart people on midship and warlock :^^^^^^^^^^), i know better than to get in a long winded halo debate with you i stopped after i tried to explain to you that Final Boss 07 wasn't going to be the best halo team forever, a long time ago

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maybe you didn't outsmart people on midship and warlock :^^^^^^^^^^), i know better than to get in a long winded halo debate with you i stopped after i tried to explain to you that Final Boss 07 wasn't going to be the best halo team forever, a long time ago

Well you're focusing pretty hard on "2v2s are better than 4v4s" and seeming to forget the whole "4v4s still work very well" thing.

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Yes it is. I appreciate the insight. I would also be interested in better understanding why 2v2 is better on h2 but for different reasons than why it is better on h1. (Or did I miss it?)

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I don't know what @@Cursed Lemon had in mind, but I would assume that it had to do with the speeds and maps of either game.

 

As far as CE is concerned, 2v2 is better simply because it has a higher skill gap, and it makes individual effort as well as coordination more necessary. Setups are easier to break, but good setups are still key to winning the match, and the one lesser player per team actually provides more options for each engagement. A good coordinated push is, thus, more rewarded in 2v2 than 3v3, since 3v3's allows more leeway in readjusting for applied pressure. A good counter push is also more rewarded, since the opposing team does not have the leeway of having a constant flow of combatants. Team fights, therefore, have more depth.

 

As far as Halo 2 is concerned,  2v2 is better because it promotes more individual gunskill. Halo 2 is a game that requires more in the way of team shooting, and thus encounters where there are only a limited amount of combatants ensure those who are capable of applying the most pressure individually (and as a team) will win, whereas in 3v3 or 4v4 the likelihood of killing targets quickly is increased simply because you can have more people drilling one target. Therefore, the lesser amount of people involved in each fight puts more emphasis on what each team member is doing.

 

Both are tied to a few factors, such as the KT, the difficulty in shooting, and how the maps function.

 

If we think of them in a dichotomy, CE would represent individual gunskill, while Halo 2 would represent teamwork.

2v2s in CE promote more teamwork, while 2v2s in Halo 2 promote more individual input.

Therefore, 2v2 in each game adds more competitive depth.

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4s Halo 1 promotes more of a setup style than the flanking and movement of 2s.

 

In the non 2s formats, it's entirely viable to do things like stand on top blue HH raining down shots and never ever move. Doing that in 2s is a good way to lose the camo rockets, in 4s that doesn't really matter. Keeping the superior spawns is more important.

 

IMO, 3s play decently well on Halo 1, it's a good balance between the 2 styles. 7.5 second spawns would make it better I think.

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