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What do you think about Sprint belonging in Halo 5?

What do you think about sprint in Halo 5?  

205 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like sprint removed from Halo 5? If so, reasons explained under.

    • Yes
      194
    • No
      11
  2. 2. Sprint is disliked in the Halo community because it gives people a chance to escape

    • Yes
      112
    • No
      26


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Why do people on here constantly claim that "the community doesn't want/like Sprint"? Do you not understand the logistics behind the actual scope of the "community"? The only sub-section that is vehemently against sprint is us, and guess what? We are grossly outnumbered.  Get a grip of reality: the vast majority of players don't give a crap about competitive Halo or perfect competitive balance within gameplay.  They don't care about sprint breaking maps or promoting stupid gameplay.  The general playlists (Team Slayer, etc, etc) have always been the most populated no matter which Halo game you want to bring up...and guess what? Those playlists were always filled with casual kids, ie: the kids that are indifferent at best about Sprint, and/or actively support it.  You think EliteSniper245 who runs around the map with an AR cares about the competitive merits of Sprint? Don't be naive.

 

Its not being removed.  There is a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes of production for a AAA game, ie: market testing, user analytics, etc.  The fact that Sprint is still here should tell you that there is demand for it.

 

The numbers speak truth and I fully understand the logistics behind the "Halo community". Millions of Halo players quit playing Halo multiplayer with Reach and many millions more with Halo 4, which was Reach on steroids. Just compare current Halo 4 population to Halo 3's population two years in. The disparity is huge. I've played many thousands of games on Halo 2, Halo 3, and Reach(my guilty pleasure) and I've asked tons of people why they don't like playing Halo anymore and the general consensus is that they hate armor abilities, including sprint. It's rage inducing to them when they have somebody dead to rights and they can simply escape death by either running away, jetpacking away, or armor locking. The fact is, sprint and other gimmicks aren't appealing to the majority of Halo players, which is why the popularity of Halo has been falling faster than the economy. I know 343 apologists like you will tell me something like "that's because they want to play other games" and I'll tell you right off the bat that isn't true. Halo players, like myself, WANT to play Halo, but Halo 4 is not Halo and our options are very limited at this point. Sprint isn't needed and it isn't wanted.  

 

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No one has numbers for these claims, but I'm sure there a whole bunch of people who'd like to play a game without Sprint. H5 has added many things which keep the gameplay "fresh" and cater to those short attention span casuals who need new, shiny toys to play with but sprint just isn't needed in H5. It seems like it's just being thrown in there because apparently that's the "norm" now. Smh.

 

If it wasn't for the "short attention span casuals" as you call them, we wouldn't have a game to play at all. The majority of people buy the game for the campaign or to relax after school/work with friends just goofing off.

 

What I'm really curious about is the population numbers for MCC. 

 

And my vote is no sprint.

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If it wasn't for the "short attention span casuals" as you call them, we wouldn't have a game to play at all. The majority of people buy the game for the campaign or to relax after school/work with friends just goofing off.

Of course, I'm not denying that. My point was that they have already added a bunch of ne features to appease the casuals who want new things in each iteration of a franchise, but Sprint breaks the game a whole lot more than any of the features they've added.

 

Do you really think that casual players who want to goof off in Campaign will start whining that they can't Sprint? Never did I hear anyone complain about not being able to Sprint in H1-H3 Campaign.

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I don't see how making "our own" playlist will help. We've tried this time after time and it's usually one of the playlists that have a smaller population. 

 

If you have ever gone on the Waypoint forums or when bungie.net used to be a Halo forum. You'll hear people say stuff like "AR;s take more skill" or "if you're actually good at Halo then you should be able to play with AR starts" and so on.

 

They have excuses and it's only because the developers continue to make the game more for the "casual" and we continue to change the game(because of the developers settings). 

 

i really think we should just try to leave it close to default as possible. Every other "eSports" game you watch uses default settings. It's a part of their success. Isn't the main reason, but it's definitely a factor. 

 

I don't mind having a "classic" play list, but i don't think we should follow the same path we've been following for the past 5 years.

 

Never did I hear anyone complain about not being able to Sprint in H1-H3 Campaign.

That makes a lot of sense considering that there wasn't a lot of games that used a sprint mechanic like today's games use.

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If Sprint is simply taken out, the gameplay will change dramatically. What about charge? What about slide? What about the map layout (Yes, it will need to be changed to account for map flow and making jumps that usually require sprint, but they won't have to change a whole lot). I think the best thing to do is to Make sprint limited, lower sprint speed, and increase base player speed. Those are my thoughts (I'll post the same in the feedback thread). :)

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If Sprint is simply taken out, the gameplay will change dramatically. What about charge? What about slide? What about the map layout (Yes, it will need to be changed to account for map flow and making jumps that usually require sprint, but they won't have to change a whole lot). I think the best thing to do is to Make sprint limited, lower sprint speed, and increase base player speed. Those are my thoughts (I'll post the same in the feedback thread). :)

That's why we have a year before the game comes out.

 

sprint needs to be taken out.

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If Sprint is simply taken out, the gameplay will change dramatically. What about charge? What about slide? What about the map layout (Yes, it will need to be changed to account for map flow and making jumps that usually require sprint, but they won't have to change a whole lot). I think the best thing to do is to Make sprint limited, lower sprint speed, and increase base player speed. Those are my thoughts (I'll post the same in the feedback thread). :)

 

The solution for taking out sprint is simply upping the base movement speed quite a bit, this would solve a lot of problems. Sadly quinn or whoever is in charge of the MP has a hard on for sprint even though it clearly is not wanted at all and nobody likes sprint in halo. 

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Of course, I'm not denying that. My point was that they have already added a bunch of ne features to appease the casuals who want new things in each iteration of a franchise, but Sprint breaks the game a whole lot more than any of the features they've added.

 

Do you really think that casual players who want to goof off in Campaign will start whining that they can't Sprint? Never did I hear anyone complain about not being able to Sprint in H1-H3 Campaign.

 

4 of my real life friends stopped playing MCC because of how slow paced it was. We used to play H2-3 for hours on end every single night. They couldn't stand the lack of mobility in the game, and have since moved on. Sucks not playing with real life friends, and I'm hoping Halo 5 brings them back. I just want a fun game, and if we can get a sprint toggle, or have it turned off in the HCS playlist for when I'm try-harding with online buddies, that would be great. But at the same time I would like to enjoy Halo with real life friends again.

 

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, as there are always two sides to the story. You may not know anyone personally who wants sprint or increased mobility through thrusters, but I know 4 good friends who would enjoy the game more with these things added.

 

Edit: and if they can make Call of Duty competitive, I know they can make Halo 5 competitive with what I've seen. CoD is the most casual FPS i've ever played.

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I don't see how making "our own" playlist will help. We've tried this time after time and it's usually one of the playlists that have a smaller population. 

 

If you have ever gone on the Waypoint forums or when bungie.net used to be a Halo forum. You'll hear people say stuff like "AR;s take more skill" or "if you're actually good at Halo then you should be able to play with AR starts" and so on.

 

They have excuses and it's only because the developers continue to make the game more for the "casual" and we continue to change the game(because of the developers settings). 

 

i really think we should just try to leave it close to default as possible. Every other "eSports" game you watch uses default settings. It's a part of their success. Isn't the main reason, but it's definitely a factor. 

 

I don't mind having a "classic" play list, but i don't think we should follow the same path we've been following for the past 5 years.

 

 

That makes a lot of sense considering that there wasn't a lot of games that used a sprint mechanic like today's games use.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but sprint was still a feature in CoD and most likely other games (not a big gamer myself, mainly Halo) around the late H2-H3 era). If sprint was removed in H5, I bet the majority of campaign casuals won't care that it's out. They just want to play a fun Halo.

 

 

4 of my real life friends stopped playing MCC because of how slow paced it was. We used to play H2-3 for hours on end every single night. They couldn't stand the lack of mobility in the game, and have since moved on. Sucks not playing with real life friends, and I'm hoping Halo 5 brings them back. I just want a fun game, and if we can get a sprint toggle, or have it turned off in the HCS playlist for when I'm try-harding with online buddies, that would be great. But at the same time I would like to enjoy Halo with real life friends again.

 

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, as there are always two sides to the story. You may not know anyone personally who wants sprint or increased mobility through thrusters, but I know 4 good friends who would enjoy the game more with these things added.

 

Edit: and if they can make Call of Duty competitive, I know they can make Halo 5 competitive with what I've seen. CoD is the most casual FPS i've ever played.

 

I'm not opposing Thruster. In fact, I think H5 would play quite well with a (nerfed) Thruster pack. It's Sprint that I have an issue with. We also have clamber so we have these new mobility options. Your four friends isn't a big enough sample size for me to think that Sprint should stay in. There are lots of people out there who would love a Sprintless Halo. H3 was hugely successful among casual and competitive gamers alike and that didn't have Sprint, in fact the Vanilla movement was incredibly sluggish.

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Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but sprint was still a feature in CoD and most likely other games (not a big gamer myself, mainly Halo) around the late H2-H3 era). If sprint was removed in H5, I bet the majority of campaign casuals won't care that it's out. They just want to play a fun Halo.

 

 

 

I'm not opposing Thruster. In fact, I think H5 would play quite well with a (nerfed) Thruster pack. It's Sprint that I have an issue with. We also have clamber so we have these new mobility options. Your four friends isn't a big enough sample size for me to think that Sprint should stay in. There are lots of people out there who would love a Sprintless Halo. H3 was hugely successful among casual and competitive gamers alike and that didn't have Sprint, in fact the Vanilla movement was incredibly sluggish.

Definitely not being sarcastic. Sprint wasn't really a thing until during the H3 era. Not saying it dind't exist, but it didn't play a huge role in videos game/wasn't very popular until during the H3 era.

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I'm not opposing Thruster. In fact, I think H5 would play quite well with a (nerfed) Thruster pack. It's Sprint that I have an issue with. We also have clamber so we have these new mobility options. Your four friends isn't a big enough sample size for me to think that Sprint should stay in. There are lots of people out there who would love a Sprintless Halo. H3 was hugely successful among casual and competitive gamers alike and that didn't have Sprint, in fact the Vanilla movement was incredibly sluggish.

 

And you will never get a good enough sample size of those players because they don't spend time talking about games outside of the game itself. They won't go to waypoint to post, they won't come here, they won't get on reddit, etc. They just play the games with friends to have fun and waste time.

 

What games did we have to compete with Halo 3 for FPS's back then? Just CoD 4, which at the time was a HUGE improvement and full of innovation for the CoD franchise. Pretty strange how when Reach came out people jumped from Halo much more quickly than they would have previously.  Over the last 5-6 years people have come to enjoy the faster paced, higher mobility gameplay that these types of game offer. 

 

Further, using your point about H3 being sluggish, this is exactly why my friends don't want to play Halo anymore. You really hit the nail on the head there. They can't get over how sluggish it is. Back then it was fine, because we had no other option for a great FPS, unless you wanted the more realistic-playing CoD.  The industry has changed because the wants of the majority of people have also changed. I will continue playing H1 because it's what got me into gaming other than Nintendo games, and I despise games like CoD after playing them so many years since Reach, as well as getting fed up with how easy it was to drop MOABs in MW3 and get Nuclears in BO2. Just mind-numbingly easy. These games lack the one thing I love so much about Halo, and that's the SUSTAINED aim you have to have to get a kill.  

 

Anyway, you can't compare what was then to what is now and throw out the environment the games are being released in.  Nowadays there are many different games that are just fun to play, and Halo is trying to compete, whereas before it was just a staple game in everyone's inventory. And again as you stated, the lack of movement speed and overall sluggishness of halo is not appealing to a lot of players anymore.

 

This is why I would love to see MCC population numbers.

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Sprint means two movement speeds making the game unpredictable and killings its flow. It's a get out of jail free card because there are always instances when chasing isn't possible for the hunter thus making any penalties useless.

 

Smart map movement and map control which once were of great importance would with sprint be much less meaningful.

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And you will never get a good enough sample size of those players because they don't spend time talking about games outside of the game itself. They won't go to waypoint to post, they won't come here, they won't get on reddit, etc. They just play the games with friends to have fun and waste time.

 

What games did we have to compete with Halo 3 for FPS's back then? Just CoD 4, which at the time was a HUGE improvement and full of innovation for the CoD franchise. Pretty strange how when Reach came out people jumped from Halo much more quickly than they would have previously.  Over the last 5-6 years people have come to enjoy the faster paced, higher mobility gameplay that these types of game offer. 

 

Further, using your point about H3 being sluggish, this is exactly why my friends don't want to play Halo anymore. You really hit the nail on the head there. They can't get over how sluggish it is. Back then it was fine, because we had no other option for a great FPS, unless you wanted the more realistic-playing CoD.  The industry has changed because the wants of the majority of people have also changed. I will continue playing H1 because it's what got me into gaming other than Nintendo games, and I despise games like CoD after playing them so many years since Reach, as well as getting fed up with how easy it was to drop MOABs in MW3 and get Nuclears in BO2. Just mind-numbingly easy. These games lack the one thing I love so much about Halo, and that's the SUSTAINED aim you have to have to get a kill.  

 

Anyway, you can't compare what was then to what is now and throw out the environment the games are being released in.  Nowadays there are many different games that are just fun to play, and Halo is trying to compete, whereas before it was just a staple game in everyone's inventory. And again as you stated, the lack of movement speed and overall sluggishness of halo is not appealing to a lot of players anymore.

 

This is why I would love to see MCC population numbers.

I understand what you're saying. This is why I'm not saying remove all the mobility options. I want them to keep Thruster, I'm not ok with Clamber but that is going nowhere so there's no point arguing about it.

But then why do we need Sprint? Up the base movement speed and increase the FoV and boom, you have a game that makes players feel like they're moving fast and a game without Sprint which directly benefits map design, game flow etc.

 

I get that it isn't a coincidence that Destiny, Titanfall, CoD AW and now Halo 5 all have these similar mobility base traits. I get that the industry has changed but I'm still feeling like there aren't just  bunch of people who are saying "Halo needs SPRINT and if it doesn't, then I won't play it". I think people want to feel like they're not sluggish and that's where Thruster and a "hopefully" increased FoV and base movement speed comes into play.

 

As for your MCC point, the numbers really wouldn't do anything to help us. The opening few days is never a good comparison due to people always coming on just to check out the game and never return, happens with every game. Then of course the game was completely broken so players left in huge numbers, more than they would be if the game had launched fine. So we'll never really know where Halo was at with MCC, which is disappointing, because I would have liked to see how popular it could have been, especially due to the lack of interesting games on MCC. Halo was really only competing with CoD AW as Destiny kinda flopped and so did Titanfall.

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I understand what you're saying. This is why I'm not saying remove all the mobility options. I want them to keep Thruster, I'm not ok with Clamber but that is going nowhere so there's no point arguing about it.

But then why do we need Sprint? Up the base movement speed and increase the FoV and boom, you have a game that makes players feel like they're moving fast and a game without Sprint which directly benefits map design, game flow etc.

 

I get that it isn't a coincidence that Destiny, Titanfall, CoD AW and now Halo 5 all have these similar mobility base traits. I get that the industry has changed but I'm still feeling like there aren't just  bunch of people who are saying "Halo needs SPRINT and if it doesn't, then I won't play it". I think people want to feel like they're not sluggish and that's where Thruster and a "hopefully" increased FoV and base movement speed comes into play.

 

As for your MCC point, the numbers really wouldn't do anything to help us. The opening few days is never a good comparison due to people always coming on just to check out the game and never return, happens with every game. Then of course the game was completely broken so players left in huge numbers, more than they would be if the game had launched fine. So we'll never really know where Halo was at with MCC, which is disappointing, because I would have liked to see how popular it could have been, especially due to the lack of interesting games on MCC. Halo was really only competing with CoD AW as Destiny kinda flopped and so did Titanfall.

 

Oh yeah you can't compare launch numbers, but the game is pretty much fixed for partying and finding games, some more tweaks need to happen but I've been having a great time playing with very minimal issues. I think we could safely compare 6-month population numbers though.

 

And like I said, I 100% agree that sprint is not needed, just trying to give the other side as I don't ever see anyone even consider the possibility that people don't care that sprint is in the game, because there are people that do go back and not even remember not having sprint, as back when H1/2/3 was released, sprint wasn't a thing you even cared about back then as an xbox fps player.

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Oh yeah you can't compare launch numbers, but the game is pretty much fixed for partying and finding games, some more tweaks need to happen but I've been having a great time playing with very minimal issues. I think we could safely compare 6-month population numbers though.

 

And like I said, I 100% agree that sprint is not needed, just trying to give the other side as I don't ever see anyone even consider the possibility that people don't care that sprint is in the game, because there are people that do go back and not even remember not having sprint, as back when H1/2/3 was released, sprint wasn't a thing you even cared about back then as an xbox fps player.

There's really no point in looking at the MCC numbers. The thing is, the launch has been so bad, it's made loads of people who would have stayed to play, stop playing or sell their Xbox/disc. The numbers just wouldn't be accurate. The launch killed us in so many different ways, that's why it's such a disappointment.

 

 

There will always be people in disagreement with certain design choices for games. That's a given. You just have to cater to what the majority want, or what the developer thinks the majority want. I'm not gonna pretend like I know the industry better than some guys at 343/Microsoft, but Sprint fundamentally damages the game in so many ways, and the solution for removing Sprint and increasing base speed+FoV is, in my opinion, a much better workaround as it doesn't impact the game as much.

 

They can still market the game as being an Arena, fast paced, next gen shooter without Sprint. It's easily doable.  

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I don't know what happened to the link to reddit but here it is. The poll right now has over 1000 votes and 65% so far are against sprint. Waypoint is against sprint, Beyond is against sprint, /r/halo is even against sprint. Who still wants it in exactly?

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Even if one could argue that sprint empowers the defender, it will always offer more negatives than positives for the arena experience. In that regard, it may work, but that is not the same as helping the experience rise to a higher level.

 

@@sysolid2k and @@Shura, I would define the hardcore player as one that plays the game rather than plays in the game.

 

 

the question that is rolling around in my head right now is can they remove it and keep the maps like they are? I hear a lot of feedback saying just up the base speed and remove sprint. I don't know I don't have the beta or MCC, but it sort of sounds like that is all they need to do and the problem with sprint is fixed.

 

Maybe one of the weeks with H5 beta will be everything stays the same, except sprint is removed and base speed is increased. That would be a true beta test if they just tried that for a week to see how it played and to see what other issues would come up as a result.

 

@@Sal1ent, @@Deez

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I think the fact that they event attempted to try sprint again is a fucking joke. The evidence that sprint is bad for the game is overwhelming if you look at recent history; the fact that Halo started to decline as soon as sprint and other gimmicks were added is no coincidence.

 

Don't waste energy trying to justify it 343 - just do the smart thing and remove it.

 

Edit: Also this document I made at the start of the year with help from various Beyond members, explains pretty well the real reasons Halo feels wrong with sprint in there: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QYQb_iGiWrOUyCe6L9FsH5Xkbumtzm5lhmIzS43RTH8/mobilebasic?pli=1

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I'm withholding all judgement until after I play Halo 5. My biggest complaint personally with sprint was that it makes the developer have to slow movement speed to balance the sprint speed out. If we get a decent movement speed for once and the sprint is just 10-25% faster i'd be happy with that I guess, as well as increasing skill gap cuz the strafe battles would be epic. (if momentum is done right...or left out:) Sprint just feels weird in Halo to me tho, and it feels gimmicky, unneeded, and I just find it to make the gameplay bland and boring in comparison. 

 

Having said that, my last local IRL friend who plays Halo has decided to stop playing because they never allow Halo to change enough, or he never likes the changes...so idk what to think lol. 

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This will only split the community up even further...

 

Do you feel that MCC split the community? Or do you "feel the bonds" by the way the match making user interface combines them in a loose fashion?

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Sprint doesn't work in Halo because the longer killtimes allows it to be used as an easy escape tool. Additionally, because it can also be used offensively, it causes unnecessary map elongation as a result, which makes traversing the map as default speeds unfeasible as well as increasing the lack-of-action time experienced by players who spawn quite a distance away from the actual conflict (due to the elongated maps).

 

Sprint, even in its modified form, lowers your weapon which defies a core facet of Halo's gameplay. That is to say, its emphasis on aiming on the move. It forces gameplay into a more horizontal flow, given that it onluy ever increases your speed whilst on the ground, and thus demotes vertical maps since the three dimensions are no longer equal, when it comes to movement. It's also not as good as simply upping the movement speed on the default Spartan, since doing so would, at least, add more to strafing.

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The fact that a super soldier spartan has to lower their weapon to sprint proves 343 is garbage.  The dude full on sprints 24/7 in the books and shoots while sprinting.   A spartan never needs to lower their weapon nor 'sprint'.. they always sprint.

 

343 killin my immersion.

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The fact that a super soldier spartan has to lower their weapon to sprint proves 343 is garbage.  The dude full on sprints 24/7 in the books and shoots while sprinting.   A spartan never needs to lower their weapon nor 'sprint'.. they always sprint.

 

343 killin my immersion.

We're playing as S4's and S3's pretty sure they're not the insanely powerful super warriors that is Spartan 2 dumbass

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Sprint doesn't work in Halo because the longer killtimes allows it to be used as an easy escape tool. Additionally, because it can also be used offensively, it causes unnecessary map elongation as a result, which makes traversing the map as default speeds unfeasible as well as increasing the lack-of-action time experienced by players who spawn quite a distance away from the actual conflict (due to the elongated maps).

 

Sprint, even in its modified form, lowers your weapon which defies a core facet of Halo's gameplay. That is to say, its emphasis on aiming on the move. It forces gameplay into a more horizontal flow, given that it onluy ever increases your speed whilst on the ground, and thus demotes vertical maps since the three dimensions are no longer equal, when it comes to movement. It's also not as good as simply upping the movement speed on the default Spartan, since doing so would, at least, add more to strafing.

Aim better, use call outs, and listen call outs. There no longer is sprint a get out of jail free card

 

Use map geometry to force less sprinting

 

No one forces you to Sprint, and you can punish sprinters more affectively. You can drop their shield before they can shot back, and they're dead if you're team shot is on fire before they can shoot back.

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