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Arena1999

Tell me about the advantages of Sprint.

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Montage containing "Adapt Argument" reactions from Beyond pros?

 

At least the 'Midship' in H5 is grittier than any of Halo 4's Covenant themed maps

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Will somebody light the Holy Halo rings so that they may cast down their heavenly fire to burn all these heretics saying to adapt.

 

Halo help in all our battles, Halo save us, Halo help us.

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I'd like to clarify a little more on what i mean by "adapt". I mean i don't think we've ever actually "adapted" more like just suffered through it.

 

We need to work more "with" them and less against them. We're constantly disagreeing with the developers. It doesn't help that devs haven't been so co-operative either, but regardless constantly shutting down the devs' ideas is more working against than with.

 

From my understanding we have a lot more dev support now so hopefully they work better with us as well if give them more constructive criticism, like trying to make the things they've created better. Try making the best out of what the devs' offering. When they are looking for opinions, i think they are looking for more about how they could improve on what they have already implemented.

 

I've been saying this in some other threads.

 

The competitive community makes up a small amount of the sales. Regardless if people keep playing it the devs and MSFT will still make their money. Because of that we don't have any leverage. So constantly turning down ideas that they've put a lot of time and thought in.. isn't going to work.

 

I want the competitive scene to succeed. I think this is a way that could help it succeed.

 

Because we've tried the "against/ we don't want no sprint" approach already. How about working with them for a change? Hopefully the devs respond well to that approach.

 

 

Edit: Also i'm not saying any of this like it will %100 work(although i'll admit i was a little forceful on the adapt thing, wasn't intended to be seem that forceful or arrogant. They're just thoughts from another perspective. Go ahead argue them, question them. That's why i'm posting on here. I want to create a discussion, see other people's opinions and thoughts.

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My wife is telling me to breath! I havent laughed this hard in a long time.

I'd take her advice. Not breathing could kill you, you know?

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I started out on the MLG forums and was a frequent poster on THC actually. I used to be one the members of the community was who absolutely against sprint and compromise. Waypoint lacks knowledge of core mechanics and what makes a solid, balanced game. Can't have a real discussion about how to make a good game, but a "cool" and "fun" game. They aren't interested in the competitive aspects to the game so going there doesn't help.

 

I'm trying make so we understand each other, but i'm responded with this stubborn attitude. I know you want the best Halo, but are you not interesting in making H5 as best as we possibly can with what's already implemented in the game? You would rather continue completely disagree with 343i then try and make sprint work? They aren't going to remove sprint. The only way they are going to take out sprint it seems is if they believed it would hurt their sales. It seems they don't think it will. It appears that way anyways.

 

Telling me to go back to Waypoint also implies that i'm just a casual right? That i'm a noob. Well recently i have became a more casual player when it comes to Halo. I continued to play H3 MLG and ZBNS for a while(i still go on Reach from time to time and play the MLG playlist), but i slowly played less and less.

 

With that said i'm still a very competitive person which is why i picked up fighting games, which is why i love playing SF. There's a ton of depth in that gap. Huge skill gap on so many levels. From beginner all the way to high level play. I also believe SF to be significantly more challenging. Again on multiple levels.

 

Because of FGs(Fighting Games)i've gone to understand and realize more about balance between casual vs competitive. In most fighting games they have a revenge factor. In Street Fighter, to fill up your revenge meter you HAVE to take damage/get hit(so in a way you get it by losing). It can win you the win game because it does huge damage, sometimes taking more than half of the opponents life. Even though you were pretty much losing the fight. As James Chen said it before, it's the most hype thing when you're watching it, but if you're the player it's the dumbest thing(unless of course you're the player who successfully landed their ultra). It still takes a certain amount of skill(however to execute the move itself alone doesn't take a lot of skill to do) and knowledge to use it( to actually pull it off/land it). Which is the compromise for having such a feature. So even with a feature like Ultra in the game, the game itself is still highly competitive with a huge skill gap and long learning curve.

 

Another example could be UMvC3. Considered to be one of the easier games to play especially in terms of doing combos. Also has a really cheap revenge factor called "X Factor". You always have access to it, but you can only use it once a match. The length of your X factor depends on how many members you have left on your team. The less members on your team(there's 3 members), the longer your X factor will last. All you do is press 4 buttons to activate and your're extremely strong, fast, etc. It's another tool that can win people games even though they were just getting bodied and should have lost. Even with that feature it's still played at a highly competitive level. But that's the hype feature. Without the comeback factor there's not as much hype and they know that. They know a feature like that will interest more people so they try fitting it in without absolutely destroying the competitive aspect tot he game.

 

 

I realize they are fighting games and not FPS games, but they're examples of how you can take features that aren't the most ideal and make them work.

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Thank you for the clarification.

 

However I would like to point out that the most popular FPS in the world right now, Counter Strike, is a competitive focused game.

Call of Duty, the most purportedly the most "casual" series, had the best sales it's ever had on the most competitive one it's released (Black Ops II). 

The most popular game in the world, League of Legends, is based around competitive play.

 

To say that "The competitive community makes up a small amount of the sales." is a useless thing to say. You think all of Nadeshots subscribers are competitive gamers? You think everyone who buys a ticket to a basketball game is a competitive basketball players? No, of course not.

 

Competitive, for a game, means:

 

- Balanced.

- Community driven (We buy the game and the tickets to the events)

- Unique.

 

If a Soccer decided one day that players can pick the ball up and dribble it basketball style, fans would get furious. If they wanted to watch basketball, they'd watch basketball. They want Soccer.

 

If I want Sprint and aim down sights, I'd play Advanced Warfare. 

 

League of Legends, more correctly, Riot Games, have proven that a competitive game has enormous appeal to the casual playerbase, whilst staying utterly true to it's roots.

I don't know a lot about CS. I know about CS, i've played it, but i'm a casual when it comes to that game.

 

Here's the thing and CoD is a great example. From my perspective CoD has a small gap and it has a small learning curve. It's a game made for the pubs and casuals. It's made for anyone to play. Yet it's still very popular even in the competitive scene. 

 

From my understanding LoL not only has a large skill gap, but it's also not over whelming to learn to play, that it doesn't have a huge learning curve to have fun with the game. The devs designed the game with the intentions to be competitive, but they also implemented things that would draw in the casual crowd. In example, the F2P business model and small learn curve to have fun in the game. I don't play this game at all, but i'm just saying from what i've heard. I'm sure if i actually knew more about the game i could provide more examples. I've also been told that LoL takes less skill than Doata 2 yet LoL is the more popular game. 

 I know this is kind of a bit of reading, but could you take the time to read this please? Sorry, but i can't really figure out a way to shorten it. If you think you've gotten a good understanding you could read just the bold red(bold wasn't working) if you want.

 

Because of FGs(Fighting Games)i've gone to understand and realize more about balance between casual vs competitive. In most fighting games they have a revenge factor. In Street Fighter to fill up your revenge meter you HAVE to take damage/get hit(so in a way you get it by losing). It can win you the win game because it does huge damage, sometimes taking more than half of the opponents life. Even though you were pretty much losing the fight. As James Chen said it before, it's the most hype thing when you're watching it, but if you're the player it's the dumbest thing(unless of course you're the player who successfully landed their ultra). It still takes a certain amount of skill(however to execute the move itself alone doesn't take a lot of skill to do) and knowledge to use it(actually pull it off/land it). Which is the compromise for having such a feature. So even with a feature like Ultra in the game, the game itself is still highly competitive with a huge skill gap and learning curve.

 

Another example could be UMvC3. Considered to be one of the easier games to play especially in terms of doing combos. Also has a really cheap revenge factor called "X Factor". You always have access to it, but you can only use it once a match. The length of your X factor depends on how many members you have left on your team. he less members on your team(there's 3 members), the longer your X factor will last. All you do is press 4 buttons at the same time(extremely simple to accomplish) to activate the X factor and you become extremely strong, fast, etc. It's another tool that can win people games even though they were just getting bodied and should have lost. Even with that feature it's still played at a highly competitive level. But that's the hype feature. Without the comeback factor/X Factor there's not as much hype. The devs know that and the players accept it. They know a feature like that will interest more people so they try fitting it in without absolutely destroying the competitive aspect to the game.

These are all example of how there's features that aren't designed to the most competitive, but are still in the game and the game itself stays competitive(with the exception of CoD that game's made for noobs lol). 

 

The problem that i see consistently popping up is the lack of ability to see those features in other competitive games.

 

I don't see how that it's pointless. What comes first in most peoples lives is their pay cheque. Regardless if this community wants to play it or not they (343i) are still gonna get paid and they're still going to sell well. Which is something to consider. 

 

Not all those spectators are competitors and a lot of them, even though are interested in competitive gaming are casuals. They play once and while or all the time. But they are the viewers that make them the money. So 343i is trying to implement some things that will please the casual crowd, but still try to make it competitive as possible. 

 

With my examples above, it's been proven that features that aren't ideal can work. You just gotta figure out a way to make them work.

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I did the same thing when i saw the Halo's viewer count compared to Capcom Cups. It's not meant to be take as a shot towards Halo or the community. It's reality. Halo needs more spectators and more competitors in order for Halo to thrive and survive.

 

I'm not saying to keep sprint in or that's a good thing to have it, but again 343i is putting in sprint regardless of your opinion on it. The difference between myself and those who are against sprint is that i'm just trying to at things on the positive side while everyone continues to focus on the glass being half empty instead of being half full. I'm also aware, it's ideal to have the glass full when you're thirsty, but when you're stuck in the desert and dehydrated, you take what you can get.

I say lol because of the notion that sprint will definitely bring in more fans for Halo. I still haven't seen any reason to believe this. I do agree that it's a good idea for people to focus on ideas for how to make sprint as good as it will ever possibly be in Halo, even though it will never be ideal.

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I say lol because of the notion that sprint will definitely bring in more fans for Halo. I still haven't seen any reason to believe this. I do agree that it's a good idea for people to focus on ideas for how to make sprint as good as it will ever possibly be in Halo, even though it will never be ideal.

I thought you more laughing at my whole thought process. I'm not saying it will, but i'm sure 343i believes that won't hurt sales and probably, if anything help them. 

 

It seems a lot of people are having a hard time trying to understand what i'm saying. I blame it on the length of my posts. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never said sprint will increase sales. I said 343i probably feels that way. So please stop directing the negativity at me like i'm pro sprint. Because i'm not pro sprint i've just accepted that it's going to be in the game.

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True, it will not change anything. However, they could make a ranked no-Sprint playlists and increase the base movement speed.

 

I agree.

 

I never heard of Murder Miners before, I have to check it out later.

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Because of FGs(Fighting Games)i've gone to understand and realize more about balance between casual vs competitive. In most fighting games they have a revenge factor. In Street Fighter, to fill up your revenge meter you HAVE to take damage/get hit(so in a way you get it by losing). It can win you the win game because it does huge damage, sometimes taking more than half of the opponents life. Even though you were pretty much losing the fight. As James Chen said it before, it's the most hype thing when you're watching it, but if you're the player it's the dumbest thing(unless of course you're the player who successfully landed their ultra). It still takes a certain amount of skill(however to execute the move itself alone doesn't take a lot of skill to do) and knowledge to use it( to actually pull it off/land it). Which is the compromise for having such a feature. So even with a feature like Ultra in the game, the game itself is still highly competitive with a huge skill gap and long learning curve.

 

Another example could be UMvC3. Considered to be one of the easier games to play especially in terms of doing combos. Also has a really cheap revenge factor called "X Factor". You always have access to it, but you can only use it once a match. The length of your X factor depends on how many members you have left on your team. The less members on your team(there's 3 members), the longer your X factor will last. All you do is press 4 buttons to activate and your're extremely strong, fast, etc. It's another tool that can win people games even though they were just getting bodied and should have lost. Even with that feature it's still played at a highly competitive level. But that's the hype feature. Without the comeback factor there's not as much hype and they know that. They know a feature like that will interest more people so they try fitting it in without absolutely destroying the competitive aspect tot he game.

 

 

I realize they are fighting games and not FPS games, but they're examples of how you can take features that aren't the most ideal and make them work.

That's not "making them work", though.

 

That's just testing what the community will put up with.

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That's not "making them work", though.

 

That's just testing what the community will put up with.

Well those game are still highly competitive and it does add another element to the game. lol SF still taking a great amount of skill and it still being highly competitive is proof of that.

 

Once your opponent gets Ultra you have to be more cautious requiring to put more thought into your actions or else you can get heavily punished. So on one said one guy is about to die, but at the same time he can come back by landing one powerful move.

 

 

True, it will not change anything. However, they could make a ranked no-Sprint playlists and increase the base movement speed.

 

I agree.

 

I never heard of Murder Miners before, I have to check it out later.

Check it out. It's only $1. You can check it out on XBL, steam(i think) and on PSN(or it's at least going to be released on PSN).

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Well those game are still highly competitive and it does add another element to the game. lol SF still taking a great amount of skill and it still being highly competitive is proof of that.

 

Once your opponent gets Ultra you have to be more cautious requiring to put more thought into your actions or else you can get heavily punished. So on one said one guy is about to die, but at the same time he can come back by landing one powerful move.

Okay, but that's like adding H2's melee lunge into H1.

 

It's still a competitive game, but...why...

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Okay, but that's like adding H2's melee lunge into H1.

 

It's still a competitive game, but...why...

 

Because specators/hype factor. It adds hype and still can hold a skill gap. Which is a good recipe to make a game successful in the competitive scene. 

 

It's just a solid formula is all. As long as the competitive aspect is still intact i don't have a problem with changes like that. Even if it seems moronic to make a game "easier".

It's not always about having the most competitive. It's also about trying to get the audience hype/interested and keeping the game competitive. 

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Because specators/hype factor. It adds hype and still can hold a skill gap. Which is a good recipe to make a game successful in the competitive scene. 

 

It's just a solid formula is all. As long as the competitive aspect is still intact i don't have a problem with changes like that. Even if it seems moronic to make a game "easier".

It's not always about having the most competitive. It's also about trying to get the audience hype/interested and keeping the game competitive.

Yeah but you can't just say that and then not draw a line in the sand somewhere.

 

Where's the boundary?

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Yeah but you can't just say that and then not draw a line in the sand somewhere.

 

Where's the boundary?

Even though you can still come back with the Ultra, it's not like you automatically get to land it. You still have to know how to use it properly because it can get blocked and/or punished. It's a hype feature, but they made it work and balanced. It was a well thought out feature. As it seems.

 

So boundary is making it work and balanced while still staying competitive.

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Even though you can still come back with the Ultra, it's not like you automatically get to land it. You still have to know how to use it properly because it can get blocked and/or punished. It's a hype feature, but they made it work and balanced. It was a well thought out feature. As it seems.

 

So boundary is making it work and balanced while still staying competitive.

 

Anything that both parties can do to the same capacity without mitigating factors is "balanced", and that includes sprint. 

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Anything that both parties can do to the same capacity without mitigating factors is "balanced", and that includes sprint. 

Hey aren't you the guy who said a couple of weeks ago camo is almost useless on Warlord? Ouch. Sometimes I wonder how much competitive Halo other than Halo 1 you've actually played.

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Hey aren't you the guy who said a couple of weeks ago camo is almost useless on Warlord? Ouch. Sometimes I wonder how much competitive Halo other than Halo 1 you've actually played.

 

Uh, well I'm 99% sure that IF I said that, it was about Warlock, where it was absolutely a non-factor. 

 

Secondly, what does this even have to do with what you quoted? 

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