Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Batchford

Halo and it's Competitive Future

Recommended Posts

I hear a lot of people saying Halo CE is the most competitive Halo for individuals. This opinion was just echoed by Walshy, who spoke about his "favorite Halo" in his twitch stream. Now, I played CE when it came out, but never followed the competitive scene, so I don't entirely understand what makes it the best "1v1 and 2v2" Halo, as Walshy put it. So I suppose my question is, does Halo 5 look like it will have ANY of that "a single player's skill can make/break a match"?

 

If not, what would have to change? Might as well realize it now so I can look for it in the beta.

Well I'm no expert, but some of the reasons why CE empowers individuals so much is the pistol's strength and usefulness in all situations, powerful nades, ability to nade weapons and powerups, much greater direct influence on teammate spawns, and low aim assist (meaning a player that's down shots can recover, if he possesses the aiming skill to).

 

H5 atm seems to be largely a team-oriented game still, less so than H3, but possibly equal to H2 or v7.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I sometimes wonder why anyone would sign up to make game sequels. You make one awesome thing, you might as well abandon it and start a fresh new IP every time.

 

Otherwise you get people who will constantly nag about how the game changed or stayed the same. I cant think of a single competitive fps that people havent complained about. CoD, Halo, Counter Strike, Battlefield, UT. All you can hope is for bigger sales, because your fanbase will turn to s--- after every release.

One problem with new releases is that rare are the developers who can call themselves the top of their genre, therefore, developers are often tempted to grab influences from other popular titles (when the truth is, among all the games I've played, I never found one set variable that makes X game 100% better) when the unfortunate side effect of this, is that changes are made to the core of the game, and what appealed to its original fanbase in the first place.

 

It's like developers have become so afraid of being unique at this point. Halo was for a long time unique within the FPS scene for many reasons and even shooters like CoD inspired themselves from features like regenerating health, limited amount of carried weapons, competitive ranking systems, etc. Now for some reason I'll never understand, Halo is the title taking inspiration from others when its formula was near flawless. Even H3, which was one of the subpar classic titles, still was INCREDIBLY popular on various levels. 

 

I'm positive that a title with a balanced sandbox like CE did, with more consistent and straightforward mechanics, improved netcode, better graphics, a ranking system that matches noobs with noobs, and pros with pros, etc. would be one of the most popular games out there right now.

 

There's no denying that CE has one of the steeper learning curves in the franchise, but nowadays, YouTube, Twitch and all that stuff is so accessible that it's a lot easier to learn than it was in the past. There's also no denying that the best at that game can easily win 50-1 against noobs, hence the importance of a good and fair Matchmaking. But with the proper features to ensure matches are fair, it wouldn't be a problem at all. You could also have in-game basic training and tutorial for advanced mechanics. How hard is that instead of stripping down the game and removing all skillful options?

 

At the end of the day, Halo is a competitive game. You search Matchmaking and your end goal is to kill people and beat them. There's no reason whatsoever to lower the skill gap. Instead, just make it so noobs don't have a chance of getting stomped by nerds.

 

Let's be honest here. I never even touched CE before MCC, but if I had the chance to have a 2.0 of that game with new graphics yet, virtually untouched mechanics, I would play the SHIT out of it. Each title doesn't have to have a new stupid mechanic that dumbs down the game or makes it chaotic. Just add new features like Forge, Theater, File Sharing, Spectator Mode (what if you could spectate a good person and see their controller inputs to learn the game even better?), buyable / unlockable skins that don't affect the game like League (weapons overrides, armors, death / melee / reload animations), purchasable Forge DLC (which would be accessible to PLAY on for anyone and added via patches, just not Forge-able for anyone), in-depth customization options, individual weapon modifiers, etc...

 

There's just so much to do with a sandbox game like Halo without altering the core, I could sit here and come up with amazing ideas for days without even affecting how the game works and most of those features would appeal to someone out there without bothering the other who doesn't like or need it.

 

Developers just keep fucking up and new people in lead design positions try to add their shitty touch that's in fact taken from something else and it's the most annoying thing in the game industry right now. It keeps splitting the population that has been built over the years and appeals to almost no one new. It's sad.

  • Upvote (+1) 8

Share this post


Link to post
 

Can anyone see competitive Halo improving from H2A?

I'll be honest, H2A isn't a very good competitive title and with the limited amount of maps, it gets old to watch fast. Shooting skill gap comparable to Halo 4, maps with dried out metagames (one of them which slows down to a snails pace EVERY SINGLE TIME), and the fact that running a tournament on it is hard because it's so broken at the core is just an absolute recipe for disaster. It's just another team-oriented game. Linear aggression to the max, team shooting from spread points on the map, thoughtless spawn killing because the spawns are so broken and awful.

I believe more in Halo 5's competitive merit at this point and that says a lot. It for sure will have a lot of gimmicks, and I'm absolutely not saying that Halo 5 will be good for sure, but if it can't at least do better than H2A, we're screwed.

This said I'll still play it daily while the beta is out. I want to see if that game can become competitive, fast-paced and entertaining once we get a good grasp on the mechanics, but if not, I'll be out so fast. I don't even bother getting on MCC anymore, and I've had the game for less than a month. I just hope H5 will be at least promising enough to get back into competitive.

 

As for the pros making it look like the game isn't complete crap and utter crap, we all know it's because of HCS and of course that's something 343 is shooting for.

EDIT: I do want to point out, after re-reading the original question, that no matter how good H5 is, I won't consider it actual "Halo", just a good FPS on its own.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Well I'm no expert, but some of the reasons why CE empowers individuals so much is the pistol's strength and usefulness in all situations, powerful nades, ability to nade weapons and powerups, much greater direct influence on teammate spawns, and low aim assist (meaning a player that's down shots can recover, if he possesses the aiming skill to).

 

H5 atm seems to be largely a team-oriented game still, less so than H3, but possibly equal to H2 or v7.

Ok, I think I'm starting to understand now. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post

I have no idea how I feel about this series anymore. Blind passion has turned to not even wanting to turn my Xbox One on for fear that I'll get into a 4v5 with high latency.

 

 

Sigh.

It hurts to read posts like this...

 

Though may I ask, what does make H2A boring to watch? Is the lack of glitches really hurt the enjoyment of watching it?, the lack of maps or both?

 

EDIT: Just saw Vetoed post above

Share this post


Link to post

It hurts to read posts like this...

 

Though may I ask, what does make H2A boring to watch? Is the lack of glitches really hurt the enjoyment of watching it?, the lack of maps or both?

 

EDIT: Just saw Vetoed post above

The colors are way too muted, it all looks like one big blur

 

The maps

 

No spec mode is huge, I mean I can visualize all the lockout and sanc setups but that's because I've been playing mlg since h2, a normal person will have no idea what's going on

 

The gun play is boring

 

The melee system is comically bad

 

I could keep going but those are the big ones IMO

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

To be honest, imo the fact that 343 became the governing body for competitive halo already sealed the deal. Even if h2a was a 1:1 copy of h2c with less aim assist and prettier graphics and even if h5 would be the next best thing since CE, we would still be fucked. They will always use the newest game for HCS and eventually they will produce an awful game. It's really in the nature of halo that was dictated by Bungie. Back when they made H2 (like OP stated nicely) they had a choice between going the CoD way and producing an improved Version of CE or going the "we need change" route and creating something different. Bungie went with the latter option and every Halo since has done the same.

Honestly, the fact that huge organizations like CLG and EG are investing in Halo is an incredibly good sign. The only issue is that contracts in eSports almost always only last 1 year and I'm afraid that many orgs will pull out once the switch to h5 happens and that game turns out to be worse than H2A.

Honestly, if we are lucky we can be a niche esports with 30k-50k peak viewers with a scene that only survives on dev money. Halo won't ever be what it used to be, unless 343 stops trying to appeal to as many people as possible and actually makes a Halo game for Halo fans. However, after getting disappointed by every new Halo that has come out in the last 10 years, I kinda doubt that that's going to happen.

The only hope left would be for 343 to drop HCS, the community to make an effort to go the Smash way and use CE or H2C for tournament play and relying on tournament organizers/teams to keep Halo going. Given how quickly H2A was accepted as the competitive game and how happy people seem to be about HCS, this seems to be even more unlikely than for 343 to create a really good game.

 

I just love the fact that I can play CE and H2 online, and at least for now I can watch some of my favorite pros from back in the day compete. And I honestly don't have to play H2A to get the game, which is also nice. Plus there are plenty of other eSports that are fun to watch (even if you don't play the game a ton) like SC2, CSGO and hell even Quake keeps on surviving.

Share this post


Link to post

One problem with new releases is that rare are the developers who can call themselves the top of their genre, therefore, developers are often tempted to grab influences from other popular titles (when the truth is, among all the games I've played, I never found one set variable that makes X game 100% better) when the unfortunate side effect of this, is that changes are made to the core of the game, and what appealed to its original fanbase in the first place.

 

It's like developers have become so afraid of being unique at this point. Halo was for a long time unique within the FPS scene for many reasons and even shooters like CoD inspired themselves from features like regenerating health, limited amount of carried weapons, competitive ranking systems, etc. Now for some reason I'll never understand, Halo is the title taking inspiration from others when its formula was near flawless. Even H3, which was one of the subpar classic titles, still was INCREDIBLY popular on various levels. 

 

I'm positive that a title with a balanced sandbox like CE did, with more consistent and straightforward mechanics, improved netcode, better graphics, a ranking system that matches noobs with noobs, and pros with pros, etc. would be one of the most popular games out there right now.

 

There's no denying that CE has one of the steeper learning curves in the franchise, but nowadays, YouTube, Twitch and all that stuff is so accessible that it's a lot easier to learn than it was in the past. There's also no denying that the best at that game can easily win 50-1 against noobs, hence the importance of a good and fair Matchmaking. But with the proper features to ensure matches are fair, it wouldn't be a problem at all. You could also have in-game basic training and tutorial for advanced mechanics. How hard is that instead of stripping down the game and removing all skillful options?

 

At the end of the day, Halo is a competitive game. You search Matchmaking and your end goal is to kill people and beat them. There's no reason whatsoever to lower the skill gap. Instead, just make it so noobs don't have a chance of getting stomped by nerds.

 

Let's be honest here. I never even touched CE before MCC, but if I had the chance to have a 2.0 of that game with new graphics yet, virtually untouched mechanics, I would play the SHIT out of it. Each title doesn't have to have a new stupid mechanic that dumbs down the game or makes it chaotic. Just add new features like Forge, Theater, File Sharing, Spectator Mode (what if you could spectate a good person and see their controller inputs to learn the game even better?), buyable / unlockable skins that don't affect the game like League (weapons overrides, armors, death / melee / reload animations), purchasable Forge DLC (which would be accessible to PLAY on for anyone and added via patches, just not Forge-able for anyone), in-depth customization options, individual weapon modifiers, etc...

 

There's just so much to do with a sandbox game like Halo without altering the core, I could sit here and come up with amazing ideas for days without even affecting how the game works and most of those features would appeal to someone out there without bothering the other who doesn't like or need it.

 

Developers just keep fucking up and new people in lead design positions try to add their shitty touch that's in fact taken from something else and it's the most annoying thing in the game industry right now. It keeps splitting the population that has been built over the years and appeals to almost no one new. It's sad.

 

Considering making alts just to give this more upvotes.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

The only hope left would be for 343 to drop HCS, the community to make an effort to go the Smash way and use CE or H2C for tournament play and relying on tournament organizers/teams to keep Halo going. Given how quickly H2A was accepted as the competitive game and how happy people seem to be about HCS, this seems to be even more unlikely than for 343 to create a really good game.

This kind of happened when MLG dropped Halo and no one stepped up to the plate except the oh-so-reliable AGL. I don't think it would gain much traction at all.

As for H2A being accepted, I think most people were just fed up with "modern" Halo and would have taken anything that's not Reach or H4 at this point, low skill gap or not.

 

H5 seems like the polar opposite of that. Some sort of skill but nothing classic whatsoever.

 

Overall there's just not enough individual things to watch. It's just BR's for days, and the BR has nothing to it. So it's just like watching Halo 3 only the BR hits where you shoot.

 

There's just not enough individual outplay for my tastes personally.

Like watching Halo 3 where no one gets outgunned ever and the sniper isn't impressive at all.

Share this post


Link to post

the fact that running a tournament on it is hard because it's so broken at the core is just an absolute recipe for disaster.

I remember watching the early pre-launch tournaments;Pax etc and sitting through endless delays whilst their tech team tried to fix problems they attributed to being an 'early build' of the game.

 

I guess we all know what the problems were now ha.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I think the worst part about xb1 is how lan is set up

 

 

Lizard squad or any dddos group could easily shut down a major tournament

 

And I'm sure they will, maybe x games cod

Share this post


Link to post

Why don't we just make out own Halo-esque competitive FPS game?

 

or move to games where the developer actually treats the hardcore fans with respect, unlike 343

Share this post


Link to post

or move to games where the developer actually treats the hardcore fans with respect, unlike 343

What games do that besides CS or maybe a little SC II?  Not much choices competitive gamers have if we're talking specifically about treating competitive gamers with absolute respect and give them the authority to decide what route the game as a whole takes.

Share this post


Link to post

or move to games where the developer actually treats the hardcore fans with respect, unlike 343

Because I like Halo's gameplay style. There's really no other game like it. CS is good, but just because it's competitive doesn't mean I want to compete in it.

Share this post


Link to post

What games do that besides CS or maybe a little SC II?  Not much choices competitive gamers have if we're talking specifically about treating competitive gamers with absolute respect and give them the authority to decide what route the game as a whole takes.

Honestly, the PC developers in general are beginning to realise that the players know more than they do. Any competitive game would do for me, most likely playing CS and SF V when that comes out, cos H5G... yeah that game is going to disappoint lol

Share this post


Link to post

Because I like Halo's gameplay style. There's really no other game like it. CS is good, but just because it's competitive doesn't mean I want to compete in it.

I like Halo as well (or used to anyways lol), I just don't like being lied to by a developer who apparently "cares" about us

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

LMAO at people saying "Nobody liked CE, nobody played it, wasn't really a big Xbox game". I've got a sense that some of ths is a joke.

 

Are you guys like, 10 years old? Do you realize Halo 2 online was built on the backbone and hype and promise created by the nearly flawless offline gameplay of Halo CE? Millions of people bought and logged in to Halo 2 at launch because of how great Halo CE was and how they were finally getting that online Halo experience.

Halo CE was THE THING back in the day. Sold 7 million copies and was played endlessly in college dorms and by high schoolers on weekends. Thousands of people every night on Xbox Connect, the laggiest crap ever (especially with connection speeds at the time) just because there were so many people who loved the hell out of the game and wanted to play against other people and test their skill against people who weren't just local garbage players. Tournaments were set up by people who had never even played together before (due to no online at the time) and MLG was broadcasting popular streams of Halo 1 matches by 2004. Halo 1 remained so popular among the hardcore crowd at the time that they brought it back in Philly MLG in 2005.

 

Were there some pistol whiners? Yes. Were most of them just terrible at aiming and sick of getting pistol sniped due to their lazy strafes? Yes. You have to remember these are the same console owners who were growing up with stuff like Goldeneye (including myself) which aims the gun for you. These weren't seasoned PC FPS vets who knew what the hell they were doing.

 

It wasn't until 2 came out where it appealed to a wider audience with easier skill curve that people started to view Halo 1 as "clunky" just because they didn't want to put a whole lot of effort into getting good at it. They looked at the easy to play and learn and aim Halo 2 and said "This one is better and more polished 'cause I don't have to actually aim my melees anymore!" With a larger fanbase of at least "good" players who thought they had a chance of being a pro, it opened up the competitive community to a lot more interested people who wanted to compete in tournaments (and it does deserve some kudos in that regard, I'll admit).. Also, since Halo 2 was the first with legitimate online play it was the one that was more accessible competitively. With the ranks and stats and everything there was more incentive for people to try to get better at it, coupled with MLG starting to explode at the exact same time as well as competitive forums and people waving their e-peens around. If Halo 1 was released on Xbox Live in 2002 with the same matchmaking system the game would have exploded even further than it originally did.

 

I agree about Halo 1 being more fun to watch too. Sometimes a player can just go off and carry a team on his back with perfect nades and shooting and weapon control. Halo 2 is all about team shooting and baiting someone into making a mistake walking where they shouldn't without cover fire and locking down areas of the map. Halo 1, yeah it can still happen, but the other team will time powerups and grab rockets/OS/camo and come after you for an exciting play to regain map control. Makes for a much more watchable experience in my opinion.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

Why don't we just make out own Halo-esque competitive FPS game?

 

Still anxiously waiting for this to happen.  Confident the community could make a way better Halo than any AAA developer ever could.

 

Murder Miners was kind of close, but it's also dead.

Share this post


Link to post

After watching this iron gaming tournament and seeing all the issues along with the dwindling viewer count, i pretty much think halo is dead.

 

This reminds me of H4 all over again. Couple pro teams showing up to a few events as the game slowly dies and then us putting all our hope into H5. I give H2A 6 months then it'l be dead as a competitive title. 

 

 

Look at COD. They did it right. Right as halo was dying they came in and stole the limelight and have just went up and up from there. I think the last COD tourney had 200k+ viewers, along with complete developer support. Along with the pros actually busting out content day after day to keep fans interested in between tourneys and online scrims etc.

 

Halo will NEVER be that big.. and the sad thing was it could have been halo instead of COD but then we were given the shit that Halo Reach an Halo 4 were. Right as competitive gaming took a turn for the best we got the 2 worst games of the series put out.

 

Something HUGE has to happen for Halo to ever be on top again and its going to take a lot of time to ever get it back into the spotlight.

Share this post


Link to post

1) Different

2) Simple

3) Equal

4) Skill Gap

These are the 4 main points I can think of that made Halo great.

 

Is it still simple? No. The inclusion of Clamber, Slide, Sprint, Tackle, Ground and pound add unnecessary game mechanics, and thats how I see them, unnecessary.

 

Is it still equal? Yes. They have got rid of Loadouts and Ordance drops so in that sense it is. They just need to get good map design and spawns.

 

Is it still different? Yes. The story mode that so many loved is still there. The shields that mean kill time is alot longer then say, games like CoD. 

 

Is there still a skill gap? Kind of. We needs loads of things that will cause a skill gap. 

Very little Auto Aim

Skill jumps that casuals wont know of including crouch jumps etc. Lets not forget the is a jumping community out there that will be dead with the inclusion of clamber.

Spawns that allow map control.

 

But the thing is, The game mechanics (sprint, clamber etc) effect just about everything

Share this post


Link to post

just enjoy being able to play your favorite halo again, who cares if the game is competitive. most of you wouldn't make it out of open if it was anyways.

  • Downvote (-1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

just enjoy being able to play your favorite halo again, who cares if the game is competitive. most of you wouldn't make it out of open if it was anyways.

 

I have been waiting for Halo to come back for 4 years, just so I can AT LEAST compete in online tournaments. 

 

Halo has been competitive since CE. H2A may not be everyone's favourite game, but that along with HCS is slowly bringing back Halo.

 

H5G also has HUGE competitive potential, and if that game hits the potential, then Halo is 100% back, and it could possibly compete with CoD with viewership, mark my words.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.