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chaosTheory

Dedicated website for tracking Halo CE gameplay issues in MCC

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I see. The reason I assumed it wouldn't work is because there isn't a way to make it work with Halo PC P2P matches. But come to think of it, this is likely because we can't modify the actual PC game engine to the extent required - but this isn't an issue for 343i, so yes, I suppose it would be possible.

Ohh I see what your saying. Turns out I was wrong in my assumption of your assumption. Ugh.

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I usually crouch while taking my pistol out, then immediately start moving. I can't remember if I intentionally looked left or if the game rotated my view, but looking left and zooming would be the next two things I'd do from that spawn. All my inputs seem to have worked.

Oh, I meant did you move forward or anything. I don't doubt that the input works. If you were moving forward from a "new" spawn point then that would be a concern. I don't think they have changed anything spawn based in the game. It is using the halo pc maps and those have all the same spawn points you are using for your halospawns site. It just looks like you had the swirl in thing happen and it put you at a valid spawn point but the camera was off. 

 

All the issues/complaints on here about changes just seem related to strange netcode issues. It is just what we get with a rushed port of a shitty port. I am amazed at what they have improved with the hit registration compared to halo pc. It is still terrible in a lot of ways, but so much better than halo pc was. I really hope they improve and some of these strange issues get fixed. 

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I am amazed at what they have improved with the hit registration compared to halo pc. It is still terrible in a lot of ways, but so much better than halo pc was. I really hope they improve and some of these strange issues get fixed. 

 

**Disclaimer: I don't believe I've gotten lucky enough yet to have played any CE matches on a dedicated server**

 

I wouldn't be so quick to call it an improvement. It's just different. While you definitely don't have to lead your shots quite as much, the amount seems to fluctuate wildly throughout a match, making it very unpredictable. And this is on top of game-breaking netcode issues such as "phantom fall damage," falling through the map, teleporters shooting you on top of a level, strange behavior of explosives, etc. I'm with you, though - if they can stabilize the lead and fix these other strange issues, the game will be solid as fuck. Until then, though, it would be a joke to play a serious match with the MCC netcode (too much unpredictable shit can occur that would disturb the match).

 

I haven't yet gotten into a CE match where the shot-lead is anything like that first gameplay video on Hang 'Em High (IGN First). Again, I'm sure this is a P2P-related issue (as far as shot-lead goes, can't say about the other bizarre issues).

 

Also, I'm not sure when you last played CE on PC, but the majority of servers are now running a server-side mod that fixes the shot-lead trouble the turn everyone from the game all those years ago. The only netcode problem that remains is rubberbanding when two bipeds (players) collide, but this is a minor issue compared to the ridiculously massive shot-lead that the game shipped with.

 

All that being said, if I had to choose which version of the game I would scrim on (in their current states), HPC with the no-lead mod trumps MCC by a long-shot.

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Has anyone else encountered invisibility not working if you pick it up while coming out of invis?

 

https://account.xbox.com/en-us/gameclip/0d670e38-4fcc-406e-a6aa-0f7e6c166739?gamerTag=chumpp&scid=77290100-225e-4768-9373-98164430a9f8

Haven't, but shit, that's a nasty one, can you add that to halobugs.com please? video included would be a huge plus too - currently I can't reliably embed xbone videos, i tried. firstly, they autoplay (no option to avoid it) and that just pollutes your speakers/processor, and second, the links eventaully expire for some reason - probably because xboxclips.com uses a microsoft API key to generate the videos per request.

 

 

While I don't have in-depth knowledge of Halo's netcode workings, that method sounds quite similar to how the no-lead mod works in HPC. However, to my knowledge, this is a server-side mechanism and wouldn't work in P2P matches (aka customs).

In the case of a P2P/custom match, one of those peers becomes the server and acts just like a dedicated server would.

 

glad you said this because i was thinking it. i'd assume any host of a multiplayer game is the effective temporary dedicated server for that game. 343 should have no trouble with this then. will take the necessary steps.

 

@@insidi0us I hope you don't mind me using your site as a resource to fix the map-related problems in HPC :) I'll also be doing my own side-by-side comparisons for this project so I'll add any new findings to the list, of course.

i'm lost. i just spent the whole day flying though so i'm a bit drained. map problems in halo pc? fixings? what?

 

This is an odd one found on Reddit.  Player is playing by himself and the game loads into splitscreen and generates a bottom player named "Donut" (as OG xbox would name default players).  The bottom screen is a dummy player controlled by the controls of top player.  

 

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2n8pue/so_i_was_playing_halo_1_team_slayer_with_one/

 

i have to point out that it's pretty impressive he manages to get himself near himself without either of his selves being killed.

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I think he means stuff like the invisible walls in Blood Gulch and trench lips in HeH when he says map related problems.

 

As for the explosions stuff I mentioned earlier, I swear to god it's different. I'll have to boot up OG Halo and do some tests in the exact same spots with MCC side by side. If I'm wrong I'm wrong though.

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This is an odd one found on Reddit. Player is playing by himself and the game loads into splitscreen and generates a bottom player named "Donut" (as OG xbox would name default players). The bottom screen is a dummy player controlled by the controls of top player.

 

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2n8pue/so_i_was_playing_halo_1_team_slayer_with_one/

 

That's like a dream come true... two of me. Start working on replicating this glitch nerdbirds.

 

Confirmed MCC is the GOAT.

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**Disclaimer: I don't believe I've gotten lucky enough yet to have played any CE matches on a dedicated server**

 

I wouldn't be so quick to call it an improvement. It's just different. While you definitely don't have to lead your shots quite as much, the amount seems to fluctuate wildly throughout a match, making it very unpredictable. And this is on top of game-breaking netcode issues such as "phantom fall damage," falling through the map, teleporters shooting you on top of a level, strange behavior of explosives, etc. I'm with you, though - if they can stabilize the lead and fix these other strange issues, the game will be solid as fuck. Until then, though, it would be a joke to play a serious match with the MCC netcode (too much unpredictable shit can occur that would disturb the match).

 

I haven't yet gotten into a CE match where the shot-lead is anything like that first gameplay video on Hang 'Em High (IGN First). Again, I'm sure this is a P2P-related issue (as far as shot-lead goes, can't say about the other bizarre issues).

 

Also, I'm not sure when you last played CE on PC, but the majority of servers are now running a server-side mod that fixes the shot-lead trouble the turn everyone from the game all those years ago. The only netcode problem that remains is rubberbanding when two bipeds (players) collide, but this is a minor issue compared to the ridiculously massive shot-lead that the game shipped with.

 

All that being said, if I had to choose which version of the game I would scrim on (in their current states), HPC with the no-lead mod trumps MCC by a long-shot.

The ign video that guy was definitely hosting. He set up all the matches on stream. 

 

I never got to play the no lead mod but am aware of it. I think I would be happy with that solution as well. It is frustrating to snipe a guy several times in the face and finally have the 3rd shot hit but the first 2 didn't. It makes no sense on how you should lead. I know the people on here hate the hit sounds but right now it is kind of necessary to get an idea of what the hell is going on.

 

The inconsistency reminds me of halo custom edition where the lead was smaller but fluxuated. Maybe that was their big network fix from the last patch? It makes sense with the quieter hit sounds because in custom edition you were able to change the sound volume and they defaulted to kind of quiet. The hit sounds are still there in mcc but quiet as well. 

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I'm pretty worried that they are not going to improve net code/hit detection much more than it is now. I think the amount of work it would require to get close to no lead pc server results is more work than what they are willing to put in.

 

Maybe it would be different if the MCC launch went smoothly and they had more resources to address game specific issues. I hope I'm wrong, there might be a chance if MM issues get resolved in the next couple weeks they will be able to concentrate on game specific fixes. I am just worried that since MCC is just a mess, H1 issues may have completely dropped off their radar.

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Here's another video of falling through the map.

yeah seems like your box is trying to tell the host box you're on the same sq as someone else. my guess at least

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i'm lost. i just spent the whole day flying though so i'm a bit drained. map problems in halo pc? fixings? what?

 

I'm working on restoring the stock maps in Halo PC to their original Xbox versions (so players on PC can play the real versions of the maps for the first time). Frankly I'm surprised no one has done it yet, seeing as we have all the tools we need to make it a reality.

 

I'm going to use your site as a starting point for this project. I've already begun work on Hang 'Em High, and I've been doing side-by-side comparisons of all the weapon pickups (PC compared to OG Xbox) and ohhh boyyy...

 

Let's just say it isn't only the rockets that have been rotated.

 

As I progress I'm writing a detailed changelog of all the differences between the two versions. I'll use this to log additional bugs on your site when I'm done (or if you'd rather not wait, I can post it here whenever).

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cool. i actually thought about doing it many years ago, but many years ago, my focus was not halo pc. also, i think i had trouble exporting the level geometry with textures included. but again, i was more focused on building new maps for xbox and getting the on-screen timer into the game.

 

anyway, use my site all you want, but if you're writing a changelog and you find some differences that haven't been spotted or added to halobugs, go ahead and add them now. 

 

as far as the numerous weapon rotations, it's definitely not just rockets. we have a few others noted on the site (sniper, shotguns, plus other maps). i remember when i first started modding, i thought the halo pc weapons were all just pointing the same direction or something, as if some global setting had been turned on. but it's actually just that gearbox thought they should rotate them to look better where they sat on the level. and most of them honestly do look better, but that doesn't mean they had the right to fuck with things. 

 

anyway, sounds like a good project. if you need any help, let me know. how are you going about the geometry repairs?

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I made more progress tonight. Differences range from the geometry of the trench to weapon rotations, to (and this the most glaring issue by far) broken player spawns. Here's the changelog up until now:

 

**Format is as follows: [applicable gametype] Action taken (x,y,z coordinates)**

 

 

Hang 'Em High
 
Changelog:
 

-Modified BSP geometry: restored the lip on the edge of the trench (including light strips)

-[all games] Removed Fuel Rod Gun/Rocket Launcher pickup at "blue plat" (33.1301, -2.3816, -3.90795)
-[all games] Fixed rotation of Needler pickup at "blue street" (34.9549, 9.96517, -5.13262)
-[all games] Fixed rotation of Needler pickup at "red street" (29.9016, 15.0049, -5.13493)
-[all games] Fixed rotation of Needler pickup at "red street" (22.2105, 15.0035, -5.13467)
-[all games] Removed Flamethrower/Shotgun pickup at "red plat" (8.50066, -2.04661, -6.43419)
-[all games] Fixed rotation of Rocket Launcher pickup on "rockets" (15.3403, -10.0551, -5.5821)
-[all games] Fixed rotation of Shotgun pickup at "shotty" (32.125, -1.37542, -5.58233)
-[all games] Fixed rotation of Shotgun pickup at "shotty" (32.0933, -3.86184, -5.58233)
-[all games] Fixed rotation of Assault Rifle pickup at "red bridge" (12.9757, -2.52734, -7.94939)
-[all games] Fixed rotation of Assault Rifle pickup at "blue bridge" (27.9907, -2.55339, -7.94939)
-[all games] Fixed rotation of Health Pack at "bottom mid" (19.7473, -2.43541, -9.25136)
-[all except ctf] Fixed rotation of shotgun at "blue hut" (20.4395, -19.4991, -8.26886)
-[ctf] Fixed rotation of Sniper Rifle pickup at "blue hut" (20.4398, -19.4877, -8.26886)
-[all except ctf] Fixed broken Player Starting Point #0 (27.9087, -15.5764, -2.79382)
-[all except ctf] Fixed broken Player Starting Point #11 (35.2563, 15.2906, -7.95039)
-[ctf] Fixed broken Player Starting Point #15 (28.7319, -17.0606, -2.79701)
-[ctf] Fixed broken Player Starting Point #16 (29.8023, -17.1473, -2.79729)
-[ctf] Fixed broken Player Starting Point #38 (31.0976, -17.1266, -2.79478)
-[ctf] Fixed broken Player Starting Point #44 (27.8664, -15.5641, -2.79395)

 

I'm unfamiliar with the "official" callouts so I searched them on google but all I could find were the ones for High Noon from Reach.

 

As you can see, I think I may have just opened a can of fucking worms. Rotated weapons are one thing, but broken spawns are far more serious a problem. These spawns were positioned within the BSP's collision geometry, making them invalid. And this is just one map, I'm afraid to even look at the others.

 

When people used to say the PC maps were "broken," I always considered it a bit of an exaggeration. This is clearly no longer the case.

 

This weekend I'm going to rip the Xbox scenario tag to compare locations of spawns and weapons more effectively.

 

As for the geometry, I ripped the BSP from the PC version into 3ds max and made the modifications manually, with the Xbox version running simultaneously to make sure everything conforms. This is the final product: 

 

haloce2014-11-2722-23-01-19.jpg

 

I believe this is the most significant geometry change in the maps, the only others that come to mind are the windows in Battle Creek and the teleporter rooms in Sidewinder. Should be a piece of cake.

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-[all except ctf] Fixed broken Player Starting Point #0 (27.9087, -15.5764, -2.79382)
-[all except ctf] Fixed broken Player Starting Point #11 (35.2563, 15.2906, -7.95039)

Don't these two spawn points work fine on PC and MCC? They're the front blue tower spawn and the needle corner spawn, right?

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I made more progress tonight. Differences range from the geometry of the trench to weapon rotations, to (and this the most glaring issue by far) broken player spawns. Here's the changelog up until now:

 

**Format is as follows: [applicable gametype] Action taken (x,y,z coordinates)**

 

 

I'm unfamiliar with the "official" callouts so I searched them on google but all I could find were the ones for High Noon from Reach.

 

As you can see, I think I may have just opened a can of fucking worms. Rotated weapons are one thing, but broken spawns are far more serious a problem. These spawns were positioned within the BSP's collision geometry, making them invalid. And this is just one map, I'm afraid to even look at the others.

 

When people used to say the PC maps were "broken," I always considered it a bit of an exaggeration. This is clearly no longer the case.

 

This weekend I'm going to rip the Xbox scenario tag to compare locations of spawns and weapons more effectively.

 

As for the geometry, I ripped the BSP from the PC version into 3ds max and made the modifications manually, with the Xbox version running simultaneously to make sure everything conforms. This is the final product: 

 

haloce2014-11-2722-23-01-19.jpg

 

I believe this is the most significant geometry change in the maps, the only others that come to mind are the windows in Battle Creek and the teleporter rooms in Sidewinder. Should be a piece of cake.

dont forget about needler port on chillout

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"needler port"?

 

the portal exit is in a different place... gearbox tucked it back into the hallway... 

http://www.halobugs.com/#?b=10

 

speaking of which, if someone has pics of each, link here and i'll add them to that bug. i'm 1500 miles from home for the next couple days, else i'll just do it when i get home.

 

as far as the changes, @@stunt_man... there's gotta be a better way to do this stuff. most specifically, geometry changes. i'd seriously look into getting the .obj's from the xbox map files (something i can try to do when i get home). i don't doubt your abilities in 3ds max, but the battle creek windows, battle creek base roof (http://www.halobugs.com/#?b=7), and blood gulch middle hill (can anyone confirm this one? it's news to me) all have angles and heights and values that won't be easy to reproduce perfectly. not to mention all the invisible walls added in blood gulch, sidewinder, and damnation, and probably others. definitely a can of worms.

 

what about Arsenic? it has options to export PC and CE Maps (i'm assuming the latter means custom edition, because there's a third option for xbox maps), but in my version of Arsenic they're grayed out no matter what i do. have you any experience with it? if i could get in touch with CLuis and get the Arsenic source code or beg him to finish what he started, i would. i've been trying.

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Here's an idea. Rip the maps from the Xbox disc, port 'em into PC, reenable the broken shaders, and ship the whole thing over to 343 with a note telling them to put it in MCC. And maybe a couple of C-notes to grease the wheels...

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So about 75% of the time I start the default classic slayer pro gametype it loads up a 15 kill limit, instant respawn, 15 second respawn growth, AR only spawn with indicators showing all players through walls gametype even after I manually sort through every setting to make sure they're setup correctly. God help me. I suppose just to be funny the game also spawns me, the host, with a broken character model where one of my arms is hanging off and bent in like  80 different directions. Pretty funny but its extremely frustrating after awhile

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@@Mintograde Not sure where these spawns are located (I didn't go to their locations to fix them, I just scrolled through the list in Sapien and repositioned the ones with red X's next to them) - if I have time I'll screencap their position in the map and post here. That being said, I'm fairly certain that the spawns I mentioned don't work, because like I said they were inside the level geometry. From experience, I can say that any item who's origin is placed inside collision geometry (including player spawns, weapons, scenery, etc) doesn't compile.

 

Also, please read on - I would appreciate your insight with the following matter:

 

@@insidi0us I looked into ripping .obj files from the Xbox maps in the past and had no luck with Arsenic (I was trying to port the Halo 1.5 maps awhile back, and I couldn't get in touch with anyone with access to the original model files...). If I understood you correctly, you mentioned that you were able to rip the .obj, but without the textures? If that is the case, please share your method, as I'd be able to restore textures with relative ease.

 

If it turns out to be impossible to rip the models from the Xbox map files without a long investigation, I'll continue as I planned - making the tweaks manually with the Xbox version running at my side for precision's sake. I'm adept enough in 3ds max to replicate the experience

 

- wait for it -

 

Just as you remember it.

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