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chaosTheory

Dedicated website for tracking Halo CE gameplay issues in MCC

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Just played a 2v2 with some guys. We switched host back and forth and it's absolutly laughable how bad the registration and visual feedback from the game is. On my host I didn't even bother with timing the powerups after the first minute because I felt bad for the opponent and off host I felt helpless and didn't get shots ro connect that should have hit and got kills unexpectedly when I should have missed.

 

It's nice that I can play some tasty 3v5 action in MM though.

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@@jayWHY, @@chaosTheory, @@stunt_man or anyone else who's got some netcode knowledge, thoughts, or experience.

 

what's wrong with/would it be feasible to implement the rewind-time lag compensation method? (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag#Rewind_time) in my mind, this could preserve the mechanics of the game client-side (crouch land as if lan, shoot as if lan, bullet-velocity-only leading, etc.) but you'd just get the standard misleading/dumb looking situations i.e. getting shot around a corner or your melee looking good but not counting because you were shot dead just prior in the server's (authoritative) timeline. this is the effect we get in cod (the only other shooter I've played since halo ce) and while it sucks, at least you can shoot what you see. some things just get nullified because the server says so, cuz it keeps track of when it received inputs from the individual clients. am I making sense?

 

when I dreamed of halo ce on xbl, this was the lag compensation style I expected, and I still think it's the best of all worlds.

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@@jayWHY, @@chaosTheory, @@stunt_man or anyone else who's got some netcode knowledge, thoughts, or experience.

 

what's wrong with/would it be feasible to implement the rewind-time lag compensation method? (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag#Rewind_time) in my mind, this could preserve the mechanics of the game client-side (crouch land as if lan, shoot as if lan, bullet-velocity-only leading, etc.) but you'd just get the standard misleading/dumb looking situations i.e. getting shot around a corner or your melee looking good but not counting because you were shot dead just prior in the server's (authoritative) timeline. this is the effect we get in cod (the only other shooter I've played since halo ce) and while it sucks, at least you can shoot what you see. some things just get nullified because the server says so, cuz it keeps track of when it received inputs from the individual clients. am I making sense?

 

when I dreamed of halo ce on xbl, this was the lag compensation style I expected, and I still think it's the best of all worlds.

this is really what halo ce should be. this already happens in halo2-4 anyway

 

 

also i know this is halo ce thread, but i'm trading in halo2 like 5x every game lol. in the original halo2 it was maybe once in 500 games

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this is really what halo ce should be. this already happens in halo2-4 anyway

...and then he didn't say anything else after that, like nothing about the world's most disappointing game or anything like that. that was his whole post, right there. 

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...and then he didn't say anything else after that, like nothing about the world's most disappointing game or anything like that. that was his whole post, right there.

that stuff isn't relevant to netcode tho

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So... I'm not really sure what to make of this one...

 

For reference, here are the spawn points in that corner of Dammy:

XbIQVMj.png

 

It looks like I spawn far back in the corner, behind the farthest spawn point, then slide to the far corner CTF spawn point? There's also the very slow zoom animation you sometimes see if you zoom in while dying.

 

I'm not sure if any of this is related to following my teammate in 3rd person during the countdown.

 

Not even sure what category I'd put this in on the website, so I figured I'd put it here for now.

 

I've had these sliding spawns before, but I don't remember starting at a place where there is no spawn point.

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I played a bunch of halo ce matchmaking tonight and the pistol was almost impossible to use.  It seemed like nothing registered or they would light up a bunch but take no damage.  Very frustrating...

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This is an odd one found on Reddit.  Player is playing by himself and the game loads into splitscreen and generates a bottom player named "Donut" (as OG xbox would name default players).  The bottom screen is a dummy player controlled by the controls of top player. 

If this could be intentionally reproduced, it would be pretty fun to do 1v1 2v2s.

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Just played a 2v2 with some guys. We switched host back and forth and it's absolutly laughable how bad the registration and visual feedback from the game is. On my host I didn't even bother with timing the powerups after the first minute because I felt bad for the opponent and off host I felt helpless and didn't get shots ro connect that should have hit and got kills unexpectedly when I should have missed.

 

It's nice that I can play some tasty 3v5 action in MM though.

I hear you VODE, I played a few H:CE 2v2 matches last night, and I had to stop playing because it was awful for my blood pressure. When I shoot a guy 8 times, and each shot shows a shield flash, and somehow I get "out pistoled," that tends to grind my gears. They need to bring the hit sound back, remove the sounds from explosives, and give us the option to toggle them. Then they need to keep working on the netcode/hit detection until it's consistent and reliable. I see now why they balked at creating a dedicated H:CE playlist until they could improve the online experience.

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@@jayWHY, @@chaosTheory, @@stunt_man or anyone else who's got some netcode knowledge, thoughts, or experience.

 

what's wrong with/would it be feasible to implement the rewind-time lag compensation method? (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag#Rewind_time) in my mind, this could preserve the mechanics of the game client-side (crouch land as if lan, shoot as if lan, bullet-velocity-only leading, etc.) but you'd just get the standard misleading/dumb looking situations i.e. getting shot around a corner or your melee looking good but not counting because you were shot dead just prior in the server's (authoritative) timeline. this is the effect we get in cod (the only other shooter I've played since halo ce) and while it sucks, at least you can shoot what you see. some things just get nullified because the server says so, cuz it keeps track of when it received inputs from the individual clients. am I making sense?

 

when I dreamed of halo ce on xbl, this was the lag compensation style I expected, and I still think it's the best of all worlds.

 

While I don't have in-depth knowledge of Halo's netcode workings, that method sounds quite similar to how the no-lead mod works in HPC. However, to my knowledge, this is a server-side mechanism and wouldn't work in P2P matches (aka customs).

 

That being said, the netcode in MCC is clearly quite different from the netcode in Halo PC (one of the only differences, it seems...). I deduced this much from pure observation. In MCC, the issues are inconsistent shot-lead, phantom fall damage, player starting positions not behaving correctly, among others. In HPC, the main issues are rubberbanding and warping (tickrate issues, I believe). The shot lead, while massive, is at least consistent.

 

What it comes down to is that it is hard to make an educated guess about netcode workings and implementation with so little understanding of what we're dealing with. It seems to me that if they even so much as based MCC's netcode off of HPC, the shot-lead would at least be consistent, which it most definitely isn't.

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This is an odd one found on Reddit.  Player is playing by himself and the game loads into splitscreen and generates a bottom player named "Donut" (as OG xbox would name default players).  The bottom screen is a dummy player controlled by the controls of top player.  

 

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2n8pue/so_i_was_playing_halo_1_team_slayer_with_one/

 

this is insane lol

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So... I'm not really sure what to make of this one...

 

For reference, here are the spawn points in that corner of Dammy:

XbIQVMj.png

 

It looks like I spawn far back in the corner, behind the farthest spawn point, then slide to the far corner CTF spawn point? There's also the very slow zoom animation you sometimes see if you zoom in while dying.

 

I'm not sure if any of this is related to following my teammate in 3rd person during the countdown.

 

Not even sure what category I'd put this in on the website, so I figured I'd put it here for now.

 

I've had these sliding spawns before, but I don't remember starting at a place where there is no spawn point.

 

Classic halo pc "swirl in" as we used to call it. I have seen it happen where you can actually see your character in 3rd person as you spawn in. Sometimes the camera was several meters back or through walls and it would pan into your character's actual camera location. I haven't seen anything that bad in mcc, but in halo pc it happened a lot back in the day. It wasn't really prevalent on good connections. 

 

I remember you could control your character during the swirl in and maybe that is what is happening here? It looks like you get the first person hud here and then it moves to your actual position. Did you have any input during this time? 

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@@insidi0us I hope you don't mind me using your site as a resource to fix the map-related problems in HPC :) I'll also be doing my own side-by-side comparisons for this project so I'll add any new findings to the list, of course.

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This is an odd one found on Reddit. Player is playing by himself and the game loads into splitscreen and generates a bottom player named "Donut" (as OG xbox would name default players). The bottom screen is a dummy player controlled by the controls of top player.

 

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2n8pue/so_i_was_playing_halo_1_team_slayer_with_one/

 

lol, he's like, oh shit I gotta random myself. Also, that looks incredibly fun for some reason

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@@jayWHY, @@chaosTheory, @@stunt_man or anyone else who's got some netcode knowledge, thoughts, or experience.

what's wrong with/would it be feasible to implement the rewind-time lag compensation method

I see absolutely no reason why lag compensation(rewinding time) couldn't be done. Lag compensation will not fix all the problems in H1 MCC, but it will fix, what I think is the main issue, latency based shot leading, and some of the fall damage issues.

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This is an odd one found on Reddit.  Player is playing by himself and the game loads into splitscreen and generates a bottom player named "Donut" (as OG xbox would name default players).  The bottom screen is a dummy player controlled by the controls of top player.  

 

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2n8pue/so_i_was_playing_halo_1_team_slayer_with_one/

 

 

 

That's both disturbing and hysterical.

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While I don't have in-depth knowledge of Halo's netcode workings, that method sounds quite similar to how the no-lead mod works in HPC. However, to my knowledge, this is a server-side mechanism and wouldn't work in P2P matches (aka customs).

Just because there P2P matches, it does not follow that there using P2P(lock step/deterministic) game networking to play those P2P matches. I think you're confusing how the games are organized with how there networked. In the case of a P2P/custom match, one of those peers becomes the server and acts just like a dedicated server would.

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If this could be intentionally reproduced, it would be pretty fun to do 1v1 2v2s.

 

 

lol, he's like, oh shit I gotta random myself. Also, that looks incredibly fun for some reason

 

Yea, that does bring up some interesting thoughts for gameplay/types

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Just because there P2P matches, it does not follow that there using P2P(lock step/deterministic) game networking to play those P2P matches. I think you're confusing how the games are organized with how there networked. In the case of a P2P/custom match, one of those peers becomes the server and acts just like a dedicated server would.

 

I see. The reason I assumed it wouldn't work is because there isn't a way to make it work with Halo PC P2P matches. But come to think of it, this is likely because we can't modify the actual PC game engine to the extent required - but this isn't an issue for 343i, so yes, I suppose it would be possible.

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I remember you could control your character during the swirl in and maybe that is what is happening here? It looks like you get the first person hud here and then it moves to your actual position. Did you have any input during this time? 

I usually crouch while taking my pistol out, then immediately start moving. I can't remember if I intentionally looked left or if the game rotated my view, but looking left and zooming would be the next two things I'd do from that spawn. All my inputs seem to have worked.

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