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chaosTheory

Dedicated website for tracking Halo CE gameplay issues in MCC

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It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great.

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whats wrong with all those people wanting the game to become 100% original?

you guys are aware that this isnt possible because of the changes that 1080p and 60fps bring into the game right?

 

and if you would think further now you would also be aware of that MCC CE will not feel like OG when you simply throw all the OG mechanics into the MCC such as 100% OG bullet magnetism

the circumstances of 1080p and 60fps already make the game a lot easier by giving you much more feedback on the game, you see more detail on the screen with twice the refresh rate, that changes the gameplay fundamentally!

now if you were to put the same amout of bullet magnetism or whatsoever into the game you will by no means reach the competitiveness of OG CE

 

pro tip:

if you make an element easier in some regards you need to make it harder in other regards to achieve the same level of hardness

therefore 1080p + 60fps and all OG circumstances on top of it will be anything but close to a OG gaming experience

 

 

therefore its needed to make the game tougher to compensate for twice the resfresh rate and wider visual field due to higher resolution

and imo the very best way to compensate for that would be to tone down either bullet magnetism or auto aim as those do directly affect the positive results of higher resfresh rate and therefore better reaction + aiming

use your brain guys, simply copy paste OG is not an solution to get an OG like experience! the goal must be to achieve the same level of OG gameplay + hardness and not to just straight copy OG mechanics and hope itll play remotely close to OG

unnoticable changes dont matter. 60fps is an increase of .0167s which is less than 1 tenth of the best players reaction time, and that is the MAXIMUM increase as it could be as low as 0ms. And you are out of place. It is entirely possible to make mcc feel like og without increased magnetism. There can be sacrificing in some places, but fucking with aimin mechanics is not one of these things. For example, client side hit detection. The only problem this would cause is dying behind walls, but in an online situation this has always been a problem so if that was the only problem we would be golden. Or simpy do neutral host with no netcode (and/or at least have this option for customs).

 

I never interpretted magnetism or aim assist to be altered, i always just thought that my client told the server my reticle was in the right place on him when i fired, and therefore I got a hit, disregarding their strafe and location.

 

Magnetism has worked online before as we have seen on xbc. It doesnt need to be decreased or increased. Changing the magnetism changes the meta of the game, and this should be avoided at all costs

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Beam, I see where you're coming from, and I'm glad the game is harder now, but this change has gone too far. It doesn't play like OG.

 

It needs a bit of bullet mag so that 95% of battles are over in under one clip of ammo. That's not happening right now. It could be argued that people just need to get used to it, but I don't think so. Also, you need some bullet mag for an online environment to account for poor connections.

 

We also shouldn't change the mechanics that people are used to. They should add more bullet mag to the top of the head, and using the "whip" effect across the target should still work as well.

 

I'm fine with less bullet mag across most of the body though. It's already a big enough target.

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I don't know where people have this great idea that shooting in CE was really hard. The shooting is harder than other Halos, sure, but it's not some ultra difficult game to three shot or to kill in less than 6-7 bullets consistently. 

 

The thing people are missing, in my opinion, is that the beauty of Halo is how everything works together. One of those aspects is how the pistol is good in most situations and how even if someone has camo/rocks and you're in a bad position you can still kill them if they fuck it up or if you are very good or lucky or both. We can't do that now. I've seen (and heard multiple accounts) of people running top power up on Hang Em with MULTIPLE people shooting at them and getting the power up. That is case in point why this shit is so fucked. If Hali and Trix are shooting at the same person from top blue and camo to top power up and that person can freight train it through and get that power up TWICE then the shit is fucked, guys. That would never happen in OG and that 100% changes the dynamic of the game. 

 

This basically turns the starting weapon into a dice roll. And once someone gets control of Damnation, Derelict, Prisoner... 

 

Good luck ever getting that shit back.

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^ I agree. nobody 3 shots every time, but the ability to at least provide reliable consistent damage is what forces enemies to move or retreat, etc.

 

Currently at Hang em high range youre just waving to each other. It's stupid

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Since the latest patch, I have seen a lot of disagreement over whether the pistol has more spread in the Master Chief Collection compared to the original version. Since I started playing MCC I believed that the pistol had much more spread in MCC compared to OG. However, I also saw prominent community members such as Mintograde (Relyx) maintain that the pistol spread is nearly identical between the two versions of the game. 

 

Because of the uproar that the latest patch has caused within MCC'S H:CE community, I decided to test the pistol spread for myself.

 

Here are the results:

 

 

I apologize for the lag between when the pistol mag is emptied and when I used the sniper to zoom in, but I was using my laptop as the capture device and as the "monitor", so there was a huge amount of input delay.

 

I am sure that some will disagree with me, but from my tests it appears that the pistol spread is pretty close between OG and MCC.

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Since the latest patch, I have seen a lot of disagreement over whether the pistol has more spread in the Master Chief Collection compared to the original version. Since I started playing MCC I believed that the pistol had much more spread in MCC compared to OG. However, I also saw prominent community members such as Mintograde (Relyx) maintain that the pistol spread is nearly identical between the two versions of the game. 

 

Because of the uproar that the latest patch has caused within MCC'S H:CE community, I decided to test the pistol spread for myself.

 

Here are the results:

 

 

I apologize for the lag between when the pistol mag is emptied and when I used the sniper to zoom in, but I was using my laptop as the capture device and as the "monitor", so there was a huge amount of input delay.

 

I am sure that some will disagree with me, but from my tests it appears that the pistol spread is pretty close between OG and MCC.

 

It is close, but compare 2:45 to 0:51.

 

I believe the difference is miniscule, maybe a couple percentage points, but noticeable over time.

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This is starting to turn into a PGI style discussion.

"Why don't they just change the numbers instead of making giant overhauls?"

Just when you thought 343 couldn't make themselves look any worse... :rolleyes:

 

Next, Frank's going to go onto Twitter to insult the customers!

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I think they fixed the picking up camo while already having camo issues.  In OG if you turn on your flashlight while camoed does the light come on? (it doesn't in MCC)

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I think they fixed the picking up camo while already having camo issues.  In OG if you turn on your flashlight while camoed does the light come on? (it doesn't in MCC)

No it doesn't come on if you have camo.

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^ I agree. nobody 3 shots every time, but the ability to at least provide reliable consistent damage is what forces enemies to move or retreat, etc.

 

Currently at Hang em high range youre just waving to each other. It's stupid

I have tested the concept of getting 3 shot on an extremely fast connection vs the typical 10 up / 100 down and its definately harder to 3 shot someone on the slower connection.

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@@insidi0us I'm sorry if I offended you. You're awesome and your site is awesome. I really don't want to fight anymore. We both want OG mechanics. Brohug?

 

I've been tweeting Bravo telling him to add bullet mag but not to go overboard. Fighting the good fight. If you want help sending out more formal emails to put more pressure on, send some contacts my way.

 
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I have tested the concept of getting 3 shot on an extremely fast connection vs the typical 10 up / 100 down and its definately harder to 3 shot someone on the slower connection.

You realize faster is just a misnomer perpetrated by the corporations to sell to the masses, right?  Having throughput doesn't make the connection faster -- it only makes it capable of carrying more information.  

 

If a highway with a speed limit of 70 gets an extra lane, do people call the road faster?

 

 

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If a highway with a speed limit of 70 gets an extra lane, do people call the road faster?

I feel like this analogy was the worst one you could have picked. 

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I think some people are over reacting (not so much here but like Reddit). I agree that CE is 100% broken, but 343 took a step in the right direction. Not in a million years would I have thought I would out shoot a full OS guy on MCC but its possible since the last patch. All this patch did was show that they can make shooting harder and not the 3 shot easy mode we got used too. Sniping right now feels pretty solid, anyone else agree? 

 

Also I'm probably late but Chill out Rockets are rotated back to their Halo PC spawn position 

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You realize faster is just a misnomer perpetrated by the corporations to sell to the masses, right? Having throughput doesn't make the connection faster -- it only makes it capable of carrying more information.

 

If a highway with a speed limit of 70 gets an extra lane, do people call the road faster?

 

 

Well it carries enough information such that I notice a distinct difference. My router enables me to change my connection speed both up and down without effecting ping, so I'm going run some tests on it. Also I don't care how good someone's connection overseas is, they are bullet sponges!

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I take back everything, Q got a double kill

This is 100x times better than easy mode shooting. Disagree? Cool. 

This patch has been out what 4 days? People have just gone from months and months of every single player in the game being a god with snipe and jumping around auto 3 shotting. Now they have no bullet magnetism. Nobody is going to be hitting shots consistently 4 days later with such a huge change. The biggest difference in this patch is that the game now plays much more like OG. Rockets are so much more important now. Before this patch Chill Out was getting to the point where getting rockets was an afterthought. People were just getting camo and if they run into the rocket guy oh well. Just 3 shot him. Having rockets was a joke. You're paranoid as hell. If someone gets the first shot on you, you will almost always die without getting a rocket off. This patch is the first time you can actually feel like you earned something with those rockets. Not worried about someone jump 3ing you from wherever they feel like or hitting a headshot from any angle. 

 

The shooting has changed immensely and is very different than OG. It's extremely hard to shoot now. Even though the way in which it is difficult is different, the result it produces is gameplay that much more accurately portrays OG play than with auto 3 auto blain. Put in any decent amount of time to get used to no bullet mag. I do not just wave at people across hang em. People aren't free to be out in the open. You DO however have the chance to escape when you should. You DONT have to be scared with camo/rocks that if you shoot one rocket you'll get 3'd instantly. You can walk through pink hall on CO and not get blained on the first shot by every single player who plays MCC H1. If you actually think auto 3 is better than no bullet mag you need to spend enough time getting used to it to stop dumping whole clips and missing. 

 

Toxin and Mighty don't really post here but they, along with trix and I'm sure many others, shared the exact same experience with me after the patch. First night. Game is broken. Second night. Game is okay. Third night. This game plays way more like OG now. Actually having fun playing. Woah, a skill gap? In Halo 1. UNREAL. 

 

Mighty and Toxin and everyone else thought they broke the game the first time we played. Mighty made posts on facebook saying they broke it. I told him to give it a few days and explained to him how to aim now without bullet mag. 3 days later he is having fun playing H1 on MCC without addy. Let me go ahead and repeat that. MIGHTY. HAVING FUN ON MCC WITHOUT ADDY. Why? Because he adjusted to the harder aiming. Realized that you don't have to worry about getting hit by every pistol/snipe shot. He now agrees this game plays SIGNIFICANTLY more like OG in this patch. 

 

If you are emptying clips and not hitting you haven't played it enough to get used to the shooting. Try playing enough to get a consistent shot. The games I've been playing in customs with people who are playing a lot have been 10x better than before. The flow of the maps now feels like playing OG games.

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I'm definitely not going to miss everyone being able to jump 3 me...that was so fuckin stupid...

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Is this possible on OG? Yes. 

 

Is this possible in this patch? Yes. 

 

Was this possible pre patch auto 3? No. If that kid gets me no shields from that range, and I turn, duck, and start fighting back, he would NEVER miss enough for me to hit that 3. AND if I did do that to him, would the skill required to hit that 3 shot even leave me satisfied. No? It would just be another joke 3shot in this god awful game.

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People have been suckling on the tit of easy shooting in Halo 1 since this game launched. Never has it been worse than the last month. Mommy put the tit back in the bra and started bottle feeding and here comes the hissy fit. Play this enough to stop missing all your shots. Those of you who are decent at OG then compare how this plays now vs easy shooting. Guarantee you nearly all good OG players will conclude that this plays vastly closer to OG than before. We should get SOME magnetism back. It's not meant to be this difficult to hit shots. However, to argue that everybody in the world jumping and 3ing and being a god with sniper is somehow better than this is in my opinion very wrong.

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Very well said TSP, thats how i see it too :)

 

My fear though is that the damage is already done by all the overrushed reactions on patch day and 343i now has the impression the CE community wants the bullet mag back to its full extent

We need to be pretty vocal now in order to prevent that imo

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