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chaosTheory

Dedicated website for tracking Halo CE gameplay issues in MCC

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I didn't say I didn't care.

 

I said I prefer it to pre-patch, which wasn't remotely close to OG in my opinion.

you did tho, on the facebook MCC thread that's raging right now:

 

VinXXXX XXXXXXX I don't care if it feels exactly like OG. I just played a matchmaking game against Walla Walla and it was HARD for both of us. And he's a good player. He kept trying to snipe me and I had no idea where he was but he was missing just because of my strafe. Pistol battles were taking full clips. It felt great.

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you did tho, on the facebook MCC thread that's raging right now:

 

VinXXXX XXXXXXX I don't care if it feels exactly like OG. I just played a matchmaking game against Walla Walla and it was HARD for both of us. And he's a good player. He kept trying to snipe me and I had no idea where he was but he was missing just because of my strafe. Pistol battles were taking full clips. It felt great.

 

Alright you got me, I think I was just happy at the time that tards weren't killing me in 5 shots when they were exclusively using their AR a minute prior.

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Agreed with beamimpact. We shouldn't mess with how people have learned how to play OG, insidious. I'm fully on board with that. Game flow is important and Halo 1 had good game flow with its shooting even if it was slightly easier. All console games need a bit of bullet mag. And the sticky aim feels unchanged which is great. I think 343i is closer than ever... it seems like one slight adjustment to increase bullet mag will make this almost perfect. I'm praying they can just release a hotfix for this...

i didn't say make it like MCC. i said make it like OG. you're saying this latest patch is the closest they've come. you can't turn magnetism off and call it similar to OG. OG's balance of spread and magnetism are why cross-map shooting in hang em was doable, why mid-range pistol battles were exciting, and why any range could be mastered.

 

I agree spread is a problem. If there was no spread then no magnetism isn't that big of a problem.

that is ludicrous man. you need the spread to apply some randomness, and you need the magnetism to bring bullets back for skilled players, to make shooting possible. you can't just delete both effects and get the same end result.

 

removing spread and removing magnetism and calling it lag compensation, or some kind of effort towards improvement, is easily one of the craziest concepts i've ever heard. this has to have been an error that no one caught cuz no one's testing. 

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and by the way guys, this isn't just the pistol. i've started capping clips with the sniper because it feels off. i have countless red-reticle snipe misses while leading, not leading, straight-on, whatever. they're just missing. i'm not a wizard with the thing, but i've never been this bad. the precision required means only the robots among us are going to excel. 

 

also, i'm going to argue right now that the reticle magnetism has been reduced. i don't feel that friendly lock-on kinda stiction when my reticles are red. it's there, but it's faint. which scares me into thinking they've intentionally made some of these changes. but i guess that could be good... at least that means they are working on the right values, and maybe we can guide them to the happiest medium.

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i didn't say make it like MCC. i said make it like OG. you're saying this latest patch is the closest they've come. you can't turn magnetism off and call it similar to OG. OG's balance of spread and magnetism are why cross-map shooting in hang em was doable, why mid-range pistol battles were exciting, and why any range could be mastered.

 

 

that is ludicrous man. you need the spread to apply some randomness, and you need the magnetism to bring bullets back for skilled players, to make shooting possible. you can't just delete both effects and get the same end result.

 

removing spread and removing magnetism and calling it lag compensation, or some kind of effort towards improvement, is easily one of the craziest concepts i've ever heard. this has to have been an error that no one caught cuz no one's testing. 

 

"that is ludicrous man. you need the spread to apply some randomness,"

 

What... why? I'm not on board with that. Everything else I'm cool with.

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And I'm actually thinking you're right about sticky aim. I think it is reduced a tad. It feels harder to keep your reticle on somebody now that I've played more and thought about it.

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I don't think aim assist was affected.  For the first time ever, while playing MCC, my reticle slightly followed a completely invisible opponent on Pris.  I might be wrong, but I think it's more to do with the fact that we're good players trying to correct for the multitude of things making our bullets not hit, and we're fishing for the sweet spot to get those 3s back.  I might also be full of shit.

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I'm with Vinny on this one it's better than before. I think aiming magnetism could go up a smudge and bullet mag could be like 20% of what it was last patch. Then it'll be good. This is a lot better because now there is a shooting skill gap between mediocre and great players.

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I'm with Vinny on this one it's better than before. I think aiming magnetism could go up a smudge and bullet mag could be like 20% of what it was last patch. Then it'll be good. This is a lot better because now there is a shooting skill gap between mediocre and great players.

I'd love to see these "great" players making consistent shots on this patch.

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Just did a lot of side by side testing with OG.

 

- Sticky mag feels almost the same. MCC perhaps even a little stronger. Did some tests in Prisoner and it pulled me in almost the exact same directions with an opponent.

 

- Bullet mag is just slightly different but is noticeably easier on OG. We are talking about literally the size of the outer reticle circle at a distance of about 15 feet will give you the hit. I'm talking like 10 pixel difference But shooting against a stationary target feels a lot easier so obviously that sliver makes a huge difference.

 

- Shooting above the head is a lot easier on OG. Your reticle doesn't even have to always be red but if it's a tad red, it will count. In MCC you can have the top of the helmet inside your reticle and it won't count as a hit as it goes dead center.

 

- Swipe sniping feels the exact same. You still have to time the trigger pull during the swipe to take advantage of the sticky aim.

 

- Pistol spread from one AR to the other in Hang Em looks SLIGHTLY less. Also from Blue Asshole catwalk to back wall looks like it has a tad less spread. The MCC pistol has a lot more vertical spread from what I can tell. The OG pistol spreads in a perfect circle almost which IMO leads to more hits because the spread will follow the horizontal strafe.

 

- Melees, explosions, movement all act pretty similarly from what I can tell. It's latency that fucks things up.

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Finally got to play it. There is nothing good about this way of aiming. Im all for harder but this just doesnt have a halo 1 feel to it at all. I was strafeing with a guy and had to lead to hit him thats just not right strafing with someone cancels out the lead even in 100 ping xbc. There is more off then just magnestism in my opinion like bullet momentum too maybe.

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I'll take way too hard shooting over way too easy shooting every day of the week. That said, no bullet mag is obviously not good for the game. Halo 1's shooting is a very particular thing. Hard to explain it but once you've "got it" on OG you can notice every little difference in MCC shooting. I wonder if they turn bullet mag back on and leave the other changes if it'll still be harder than the auto 3 crap we've had. One can hope, right?

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I'll take way too hard shooting over way too easy shooting every day of the week. That said, no bullet mag is obviously not good for the game. Halo 1's shooting is a very particular thing. Hard to explain it but once you've "got it" on OG you can notice every little difference in MCC shooting. I wonder if they turn bullet mag back on and leave the other changes if it'll still be harder than the auto 3 crap we've had. One can hope, right?

 

Today, after watching Last Week Tonight, I recognised your display picture.

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Anybody notice extra input delay when hosting? My movement felt like XBC in the FFAs I hosted. Some actions have a delay and some don't - it's a whole pile of weirdness to get adjusted to.

 

Something to test would be two players strafing on either side of HH trench - matching strafe, opposite strafe, and one player stationary - and see where off/on host needs to aim.

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Anybody notice extra input delay when hosting? My movement felt like XBC in the FFAs I hosted. Some actions have a delay and some don't - it's a whole pile of weirdness to get adjusted to.

 

Something to test would be two players strafing on either side of HH trench - matching strafe, opposite strafe, and one player stationary - and see where off/on host needs to aim.

 

I noticed this as well.

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have not followed the game in months but watched some streams today of slim playing, it looks as if they can find a happy medium between how easy it was shooting to what it is now the game could potentially be fun. I will say it was a lot more fun watching someone snipe now. 

 

someone posted this- - Shooting above the head is a lot easier on OG. Your reticle doesn't even have to always be red but if it's a tad red, it will count. In MCC you can have the top of the helmet inside your reticle and it won't count as a hit as it goes dead center.

 

I think thats where they have to play around with the most in testing to fix it back to that but not way to easy where its auto 3s all day. I dont think the person making these changes should do them without top og players testing different settings if they want to get the feel right. 

 

Online will always be a factor on how good the pistol and sniper will ever feel, we will never feel og lan style shooting but I think they can find a close enough solution with the right people testing.

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The way the game is right now is the most fun I've had on it since launch. Rockets and nades now play a much more critical role like they should. Sniper isn't the overpowering god weapon anymore. Pistol battles aren't a test of who can 3shot who first and players with higher ping don't get hit boxes the size of semi trucks. Even though the shooting is different than OG, the increased difficulty makes the game play significantly closer to what OG is supposed to play like. Couple that with getting 4 nades starts (finally!!!), and you have the best H1 experience to date on MCC. 

 

Like sic said, if they can add back a touch of magnetism without adding back the issues we've had with too easy shooting, I'm all for it. As of right now if this game stays the same, it's infinitely better than dealing with the way too easy BS we've been playing this whole time. 

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I got to watch toxin stream a lot and he was hitting a lot of shots once he started aiming a tad lower. The netcode looks to be as solid as it can ever get, I think whats throwing most off is aiming to high like your normally would. Watching insids vids I would be frustrated as all hell because any old og player always has cross hair slightly above head, or when leading slightly in front. Those now will all miss every time. 

 

I do like the fact they changed the chilli port that small change completely fucked up the map. Things like that should of been fixed 6 months ago but better late then never I guess. I think the game is one patch away with the right values on the magnetism like insid said from being acceptable and worth playing with ranks. But the way things have gone I see them not getting the right values and going back to walking around head shotting every shot with snipe and pistol.

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The high aiming missing issue was present a few patches ago also, I believe.  The patch where on-host shooting was much more difficult than off-host.  I have a good fiber connection, so I pull host a lot and remember missing tons of shots. Started up a splitscreen and realized that aiming at the head with the bottom of the reticule was resulting in misses.  Adjusted my aim to aim closer to shoulder level, and I was back to getting kills.  It may have only been for hosting players at that time though.

 

Haven't had the opportunity to play new patch, but I'm excited for 4 nades.  Also as for the "exactly like og" debate, I played a ton of OG and there are some things OG that are better left behind if it improves gameplay.  Does anyone miss shooting six pistol shots into walls cause you got naded?

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If they increased the magnetism maybe 10% it would be something I could get used to. Even though it's not 100% OG, it's starting to create a gap again which wasn't resent before. It's was frustrating getting 3'd so much before now it has the pace back.

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I played a few games.  I like this version of halo wayyyy better than easy 3 mode. Four nades and difficult shooting definitely separates those who know how to play halo1 from those who just learned how to shoot well.  The previous patch the easy 3 mode killed a lot of h1 depth, but now in hard mode that is all back, plus you can actually out pistol multiple people.

 

Is the high aiming missing annoying? A bit yes.  Could it be made a little easier to shoot? Just a tad.  But this version of halo is way better than MCC one of the last few months.

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I'm glad some players are chiming in and agreeing this feels closer to OG than ever before. Because being too hard does still make it closer to OG than worrying about popping out and getting 3d by bad players. OG never played like that but we've all gotten used to how easy it was playing and I think that was because we were just grateful that shots were actually registering after patches even if it was a little easy. This game is supposed to have a shooting skillgap. Toxin was posting that he likes the change too.

 

Obviously it needs more tweaking. There's no doubt about that. We can't just alienate everyone from the game and it's definitely frustrating barely missing and people running away all the time. OG didn't play like that either, you need to be punished for mistakes.

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After playing it, I like having a skill gap, but I don't like that the compromise is changing aiming mechanics.  I still think they need to add back around 30-40% magnetism, so aiming actually feels close to what it would have been OG.  This is an FPS after all -- changing the way we aim is a fundamental change to the game.

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