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chaosTheory

Dedicated website for tracking Halo CE gameplay issues in MCC

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i don't remember saying fixing grenade count would be hard. i've always assumed the original reduction (by Bungie) to 2 nades for 5+ players was to minimize chaos and maintain a decent framerate as number of players increased. we've all seen prisoner and damnation get laggy due to high polygon count (or maybe no portals [not what you think - different kind of portals that keep your screen only rendering map elements within field of view]). another assumption i made (again, never fact-checked) was that gearbox decided to keep the starting nades at 2 for all amounts of players because servers had the potential to fill up with more players than the game started with (is that true? or could you lock a game and keep joiners out?) otherwise i have no fucking idea why they would do it. why remove trench lip? why lower bc base ceilings? why shrink the windows? why move the tree? why uglify the teleports? why rotate weapons? why screw up the item spawn times? why move the chillout needler port exit? why did they think they had the right to fuck with the game AT ALL?

 

either way, it can't be complicated for a 343i dev to fix the nades either in the executable file, if that's where it is, in the map tags if that's where it is, or with a server-side script as other fixes have been done. 

 

what i DON'T think is a good idea is hacking the spawn times and writing all sorts of weird work-around scripts only to get 3 nades and change how often they reappear on the map. to my knowledge, all gearbox did was reduce the nade count to 2 for everyone, no matter how many players. wherever that added script or value is, it should just be undone. can't be hard.

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is that true? or could you lock a game and keep joiners out?

It is true, and that's why I assume players only get 2 grenades.

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another assumption i made (again, never fact-checked) was that gearbox decided to keep the starting nades at 2 for all amounts of players because servers had the potential to fill up with more players than the game started with (is that true? or could you lock a game and keep joiners out?)

 

both is the case on Halo PC, if you are server admin you can sort of enforce such a situation pretty easily

eg a server is maxed with 16 players but you set it to 8 players for the next round, all players connect to the server again on the next round but only the half of them makes it into the game while the other ones are stuck in the loading screen but are still constantly communicating with the server until they hit ESC

so if that is the scenario you meant then yes

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i don't remember saying fixing grenade count would be hard. i've always assumed the original reduction (by Bungie) to 2 nades for 5+ players was to minimize chaos and maintain a decent framerate as number of players increased. we've all seen prisoner and damnation get laggy due to high polygon count (or maybe no portals [not what you think - different kind of portals that keep your screen only rendering map elements within field of view]). another assumption i made (again, never fact-checked) was that gearbox decided to keep the starting nades at 2 for all amounts of players because servers had the potential to fill up with more players than the game started with (is that true? or could you lock a game and keep joiners out?) otherwise i have no fucking idea why they would do it. why remove trench lip? why lower bc base ceilings? why shrink the windows? why move the tree? why uglify the teleports? why rotate weapons? why screw up the item spawn times? why move the chillout needler port exit? why did they think they had the right to fuck with the game AT ALL?

 

either way, it can't be complicated for a 343i dev to fix the nades either in the executable file, if that's where it is, in the map tags if that's where it is, or with a server-side script as other fixes have been done. 

 

what i DON'T think is a good idea is hacking the spawn times and writing all sorts of weird work-around scripts only to get 3 nades and change how often they reappear on the map. to my knowledge, all gearbox did was reduce the nade count to 2 for everyone, no matter how many players. wherever that added script or value is, it should just be undone. can't be hard.

That quote teapot posted was of Doodooshit working on his neutral host project for the original xbox version of the game which involves targeting the host player with a script and moving him to a spawn point that is out of the map. Then you have the nade problem due to the 5th player, but if you have a way to fix that too you really should talk to him.

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yeah i know he was quoting doodooshit, but old greg was wondering if it was me who said it would be difficult. i was responding to him (without quoting. my fault!)

 

anyway, i did speak to dds, i told him doing it on OG box was going to be super hard because, if memory served correctly, the nade count was not in the map tags or gametype settings. no one has access to the default.xbe (halo executable file) source, otherwise lots and LOTS of things would already be done. the only guy who made any progress on hacking into that file has passed away.

 

also,


both is the case on Halo PC, if you are server admin you can sort of enforce such a situation pretty easily
eg a server is maxed with 16 players but you set it to 8 players for the next round, all players connect to the server again on the next round but only the half of them makes it into the game while the other ones are stuck in the loading screen but are still constantly communicating with the server until they hit ESC
so if that is the scenario you meant then yes
nope, that sounds crazy complicated to me. never heard of that mess. 
 
in summary, i think doodooshit has achieved the most in recent years, but nades are still proving difficult, on OG. for 343i to adjust MCC should be a cake-walk.
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Hey @@Missingno, I was just watching you LAN gameplay and I saw missed jumps a few times, I know the CE enthusiasts don't like even minor changes, but if a proper "sequel" was made (for lack of a better term) would you -or any other CE vet- want the jump delay taken out?

 

As a multiplayer rookie in terms of map, spawn and powerup control, I find the delay infuriating and even though I've played hundreds of hours of CE (not 2v2) I still can't get used to it.

 

What are the vet's thoughts on the jump delay?

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I dont like the jump delay but im sure some want it bc its funny as hell when rocket camo guy breaks his legs after missing his jump on damnation.

 

I just feel like jump delay makes thegame less smooth

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I prefer the jump delay. It's really not that hard to get used to. Plus, having no jump delay would make jumps like the priz shortcuts too easy.

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Jump delay is like the only objective flaw in 2v2 halo ce.

random spawns at the beginning of matches. Tho set spawns wouldnt work well cept on derelict n bcreek. So probably might be best to just have no powerups and power weapons on the first minute rotation.

 

Another thing is host advantage

 

Another thing is team color advantage tho not a big deal past 360p

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Hey @@Missingno, I was just watching you LAN gameplay and I saw missed jumps a few times, I know the CE enthusiasts don't like even minor changes, but if a proper "sequel" was made (for lack of a better term) would you -or any other CE vet- want the jump delay taken out?

 

As a multiplayer rookie in terms of map, spawn and powerup control, I find the delay infuriating and even though I've played hundreds of hours of CE (not 2v2) I still can't get used to it.

 

What are the vet's thoughts on the jump delay?

I'm an elitist prick so I would like nothing changed in a true sequel.  I will say missed jumps in my recent LAN videos are probably a result of us not playing original H1 in a while (at least 3/4 of the people).  I also don't notice the jump delay, H1 feels just like H1 to me.  It's how it's always been, and it doesn't bother me.  I can't speak for everyone obviously. 

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I agree with missingno. I think if CE came out and had no jump delay it would probably feel a lot better for first time users. However it's just something I'm used to. Shadowrun was built off of a modified Halo 1 engine and it contains the same exact floaty movement and jump delay, and I love it.

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Jump delay is like the only objective flaw in 2v2 halo ce.

Besides the *objective* flaws... auto-pickup, random hills, multiple melees needed to kill with ball/flag, ??

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Besides the *objective* flaws... auto-pickup, random hills, multiple melees needed to kill with ball/flag, ??

Bolded are subjective. Auto pickup isn't nearly as bad when you can drop the flag at any time.

Objectives not being one-hits aren't bad. It discourages running up to the flag and getting a one-hit just because. If I recall, Halo 2 is also like this by default. It's only in Halo 3 and later where it became the norm.

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random spawns at the beginning of matches. Tho set spawns wouldnt work well cept on derelict n bcreek. So probably might be best to just have no powerups and power weapons on the first minute rotation.

 

Another thing is host advantage

 

Another thing is team color advantage tho not a big deal past 360p

Oh yeah beginning spawn is pretty bad sometimes especially in Pris or hang em. It can honestly decide the outcome of evenly matched opponents.

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Besides the *objective* flaws... auto-pickup, random hills, multiple melees needed to kill with ball/flag, ??

Most people do not play 2v2 objective gametypes lol.

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Oh yeah beginning spawn is pretty bad sometimes especially in Pris or hang em. It can honestly decide the outcome of evenly matched opponents.

i like the classic double shitroom spawn while for the other team someone spawns top clinky and the other guy spawns somewhere below him. 

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conceptually I love the idea of no power ups or guns on initial spawn. there's no reason to have such a huge potential swing simply because of a dice roll.

 

I'd have to play it to be sure, but it sounds good.

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I agree with missingno. I think if CE came out and had no jump delay it would probably feel a lot better for first time users. However it's just something I'm used to. Shadowrun was built off of a modified Halo 1 engine and it contains the same exact floaty movement and jump delay, and I love it.

 

 

I'm an elitist prick so I would like nothing changed in a true sequel.  I will say missed jumps in my recent LAN videos are probably a result of us not playing original H1 in a while (at least 3/4 of the people).  I also don't notice the jump delay, H1 feels just like H1 to me.  It's how it's always been, and it doesn't bother me.  I can't speak for everyone obviously. 

 

I guess it's hard to change an opinion when you're perfectly used to it. I guess I just have to get used to it.

 

I noticed some maps I hadn't seen before. Outbound looks really good. Do you guys ever play 4v4 objective matches for something lighter, or is it 2v2 all the time?

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I guess it's hard to change an opinion when you're perfectly used to it. I guess I just have to get used to it.

 

I noticed some maps I hadn't seen before. Outbound looks really good. Do you guys ever play 4v4 objective matches for something lighter, or is it 2v2 all the time?

 

I've played quite a bit of 4v4 objective on 1.5.  There are loads of really fun gametypes on there.  Our favorites are probably CTF Zero Hour, KotH Downrush, KotH Imminent, and Oddball Decidia.  They're all so ridiculously fun.

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conceptually I love the idea of no power ups or guns on initial spawn. there's no reason to have such a huge potential swing simply because of a dice roll.

 

I'd have to play it to be sure, but it sounds good.

Positioning is almost as important on some maps though. I think set spawns in neutral locations that have equal opportunity for good positioning and powerups is key. Also I love the opening rush for powerups and control so I would prefer to keep that element alive.

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I guess it's hard to change an opinion when you're perfectly used to it. I guess I just have to get used to it.

 

I noticed some maps I hadn't seen before. Outbound looks really good. Do you guys ever play 4v4 objective matches for something lighter, or is it 2v2 all the time?

Ideally I'd like to play fun games just as often as serious ones. Also 4v4 is still competitive. There's going to be a 4v4 mcc tournament on Saturday for a couple hundred dollars.

 

Anyway, I love games like snipers on boarding action, chiron once in a while, wizard rockets, and one of my new faves is "joust" where you can only kill people with the warthog.

 

In terms of ranked mming though, 2v2 all day.

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Positioning is almost as important on some maps though. I think set spawns in neutral locations that have equal opportunity for good positioning and powerups is key. Also I love the opening rush for powerups and control so I would prefer to keep that element alive.

That's an option. I think deciding on fair spawns on an asymmetrical map is pretty subjective. There's also a matter of having to add that feature. I think blanking the initial map would either be a very simple script or maybe even just ticking a box in the map file. (I haven't messed with mods in years so I don't recall)

 

You still have an opening rush to powerups, it just happens a minute into the game. And now you have input as a player as to how that attack goes down. do you try to take the area early and hold it; do you hang back and try to storm in with 10 seconds to go; do you like up a nade trick from far away?

 

I'd argue that it allows for more player creativity in the opening minutes with an empty initial map. The way it stands now on Hang em if you start on red and your opponent spawns near camo you're just not going to get it.

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I guess it's hard to change an opinion when you're perfectly used to it. I guess I just have to get used to it.

 

I noticed some maps I hadn't seen before. Outbound looks really good. Do you guys ever play 4v4 objective matches for something lighter, or is it 2v2 all the time?

 

I've played these new maps for a long time.  We used to play 4v4 a lot.  Our favorite gametypes were Exhibit Oddball, Downrush Oddball and Zero Hour CTF.

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I've played these new maps for a long time.  We used to play 4v4 a lot.  Our favorite gametypes were Exhibit Oddball, Downrush Oddball and Zero Hour CTF.

 

Possible to upload some of that? I mean I could just play 4v4 CE myself but I learn a lot watching the higher players.

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