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chaosTheory

Dedicated website for tracking Halo CE gameplay issues in MCC

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No aim assist on a console would be absurd. Imagine trying to no scope all game? 'Cause that's what it would be like.

 

If you want pure aim skill play fps on pc. CE has pretty much set the standard for fluid but still difficult aiming on console that every fps should abide by but unfortunately doesn't...

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Copypasta'd from the other topic:

 

The shotgun makes 0 sense. I can 3-shot somebody at point blank and hit nothing but air, but get 1-shotted by a dude from 9 miles away. I've heard multiple people including Walshy complain about this so I know it's not just me.

 

Also, getting assassinated from the front/getting 1-hit beatdown with full OS. Not really sure which it is, but it has definitely happened to me on a few occassions where I drop to 1 melee even though I have full OS. Don't really get this one either.

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CE has pretty much set the standard for fluid but still difficult aiming on console that every fps should abide by but unfortunately doesn't...

 

CE has among the strongest aim assistant of all current gen shooters as back in the days it was normal to have crazy high aim assistance

for a game being remastered with nowadays standards the amount of aim assistant is just too much, only Destiny and AW/Ghost do have a similar strong aim assist and those are targeting the casuals

just strafe on an enemy while not moving your crosshair in CE, the magnetism is too much

there definitely needs to be an adjustment, i mean right now it even surpasses the assistance of the OG version

 

having no aim assistant is much more playable than you might think, the example of playing like no-scoped constantly is slightly flawed as no aim assistant automatically forces you to reduce your controller sensitivity to gain more accuracy

the game could go the CSGO route that almost had 0 aim assistant yet people did get great accuracy after training for some time

(desprite the terrible look mechanic of the game)

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you don't need to mess with the magnetism or auto aim or friction or anything. it's fine on og. I'm assuming this forgiving shooting we're seeing is due to the 'no lead' mod. there's probably built in leeway to account for slight ping fluctuations or something.

 

to add, h1's sticky reticle is part of what makes shooting so fun. when you're aiming on the wrong side of the opponent you have to fight for the correct placement, and it creates this whipping motion. That helps make it unique from PC shooting.

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Aim assist, Auto Aim, and bullet magnetism can all be tailored in a way that can create a very difficult shooting gap. I had always assumed classic CE had relatively low levels of bullet magnetism since you can shoot right past a player despite your reticle being red. Classic CE in my opinion had an extremely good balance of these mechanics.

 

Shadowrun is similar, that game is arguably 10x harder to use the rifle perfectly, and the aim assist level is pretty high, auto aim level is moderate, but the bullet magnetism seems so incredibly low. There's times you feel centered in right on their face and miss but it's just because you're slightly off.

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Can we also get back on post carnage report the total number of kills for each team?

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CE has among the strongest aim assistant of all current gen shooters as back in the days it was normal to have crazy high aim assistance

for a game being remastered with nowadays standards the amount of aim assistant is just too much, only Destiny and AW/Ghost do have a similar strong aim assist and those are targeting the casuals

just strafe on an enemy while not moving your crosshair in CE, the magnetism is too much

there definitely needs to be an adjustment, i mean right now it even surpasses the assistance of the OG version

 

having no aim assistant is much more playable than you might think, the example of playing like no-scoped constantly is slightly flawed as no aim assistant automatically forces you to reduce your controller sensitivity to gain more accuracy

the game could go the CSGO route that almost had 0 aim assistant yet people did get great accuracy after training for some time

(desprite the terrible look mechanic of the game)

 

You make valid points, but I disagree. As someone else mentioned, strafing at distance combined with projectile bullets makes aiming in CE MUCH more difficult. Magnetism helps me keep the reticle in the general vicinity of the guy and then I have to fight it a bit to get shots that will actually hit someone who is strafing.

 

If it was hitscan, then yes the magnetism might be a problem.

 

I play lots of console shooters and it doesn't feel like it has more than any recent shooter, it's about the same. Also people move much slower in most modern shooters (when not sprinting), combined with ADS making shooting much easier (plus you only need to keep your reticle on them for half a second instead of dueling for an entire pistol clip).

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I sunk some time into Quake Arena Arcade on the 360, a game with zero aim assist, around the time I was at my skill peak in Quake Live. It was simply not fun. Even against complete beginners, I struggled to reach a 20-4 scoreline in games that would be 40-0 or 50-0 on PC. Things that were easy with a mouse and keyboard seemed near impossible with the controller. In my experience, a controller just isn't the right tool for unassisted precision aiming, and ends up lowering the *attainable* skill ceiling instead of separating the ends of the skill spectrum.

 

Edit: found some old gameplays on my hard drive

 

 

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for the curious:

 

When building a singleplayer map, tool specifically seeks out weapons/pistol/pistol.weapon, and weapons/pistol/bullet.damage_effect, and changes them before compiling them into the map.

 

pistol/bullet.damage_effect's damage modifier vs. elite energy shield is reduced from 1.0 to 0.8

 

pistol/pistol.weapon's error angle upper bound is reduced from 2.0 to 0.4 degrees (this is likely the magic jason jones change). So instead of starting at an 0.2 degree cone and ending at a 2.0 degree cone -- 10 times less accurate -- it merely goes from 0.2 to 0.4. Big change!

 

You can observe this in action by compiling a singleplayer map yourself with the stock HEK tags, which have the "old" values; looking at the memory while the map's running will reveal these tags to have the newer values, as will looking at them after extracting them from a built map with HEK+. (you can also verify this by just shooting walls with weapons/pistol/pistol.weapon and a clone .weapon located elsewhere)

 

Here's the fun part though: when building a multiplayer map, tool does nothing. Instead, when h1 xbox loads a multiplayer map, it will change the values as they're being loaded into memory. The kicker? Halo PC doesn't do this. (I've verified this on Custom Edition; I'm 95% sure regular HPC is also like this.) Halo PC multiplayer still uses the old Pistol max error of 2.0 degrees.

 

So, all along, PC MP players have been using the older, non-JJones-tampered version of the Pistol. Of course, pulling the trigger for every bullet (rather than holding it for automatic fire) completely bypasses the accuracy decrease, apparently by design according to this guy; so practically, the JJones change isn't as significant as it may seem.

 

Less known but arguably more significant is that plasma rifle/plasma rifle.weapon is also modified in the same way, having its error reduced from 0.5-5.0 degrees to 0.25-2.5 degrees; i.e., the HPC multiplayer PR is effectively half as accurate as its campaign & xbox MP counterpart

 

This was originally posted by Ifafudafi from the halomaps.org forums. Here's the link to a thread I made in a fruitless attempt to wake up and inspire the so-called "map makers" of Halo Custom Edition:

 

 

**BEWARE: the halomaps forum is filled with all manner of shitposters, man-children, actual children, self-righteous content creators and self-proclaimed memes. Click on this link at your own risk***

 

HINT: At the time of this writing there is nothing else of value in that thread besides the post I have quoted above.

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That guy is actually working with a team on a rather ambitious recreation of the Silent Cartographer campaign level. Those guys are seriously pushing the envelope in terms of what is possible with CE's rickety-ass engine. They're working on (and have showcased) advanced lighting techniques (directional lightmaps), new AI and enemy types, functional Reach-style VISR mode, among tons of other stuff.

 

He probably just came across this stuff while he was doing his own research with Bungie's tags. It's fairly easy - the tools are publicly available along with all the PC game data, and the Xbox game data can be downloaded online.

 

Anyway,

 

The point of my post was that the MP pistol in the MCC might not even have the same stats as the MP pistol in OG Xbox. I don't intend to verify this claim at the moment, but judging from the fact that most of the game's code and content was ripped from the PC version, this is more than likely the case.

 

 

ALSO:

 

This is the reason that no one could figure out why the pistol in the PC version didn't feel the same. The way people have probably been checking this is:

  1. Rip Xbox pistol tags from an Xbox multiplayer map file
  2. Rip PC pistol tags from a PC multiplayer map file
  3. Compare the two - the values are identical though,  because on the Xbox version the modification to the pistol's stats occurs when the map is loading, which alters the tag's value after the fact

This is a bug that can be fixed rather easily, just requires re-compiling all the maps with the correct data in the tag. Will 343i do it? Who knows? Because if it comes to re-compiling the maps they're opening the door to fixing a shitload of other map-related issues.

 

Can be fixed on PC though ;)

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So am I the only one who feels that the shot registration could still use some work I mean generally my shots register pretty consistently but I've noticed that on bigger maps like Hang Em it feels like shots register much less consistently even though I'm leading my shots.

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So am I the only one who feels that the shot registration could still use some work I mean generally my shots register pretty consistently but I've noticed that on bigger maps like Hang Em it feels like shots register much less consistently even though I'm leading my shots.

 

i guess you just faced the pretty high bullet deviation of the pistol (follow-up shots), on longer ranges the bullet can land quite close to the crosshairs outer circle, which especially on long ranges means the bullet either went infront or behind your opponents hitbox

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I feel the netcode is much too forgiving (too easy to 3sk, headshot with sniper). I mean I know I'm not bad, but I'm definitely performing better on MCC than on OG.
 
 

 

UPDATE:

 

Video comparison and proper testing shows that all versions have identical pistol spread at various fire rates:

 

 

http://youtu.be/dqCyPHW0KIw

 

 

 

 

 

IN OTHER NEWS:
 
I decided to test Ifafudafi's theory about the pistol spread between all versions of CE. Not sure if this was the best way to test it, but here we go: 

(I fired the pistol like a semi-automatic aka I didn't just hold down the trigger, and I used two full clips for each test)

 

I did in fact hold the trigger down for all these tests but I'm currently working on a video comparison which should clear up any confusion

 

This is from the OG version:

pistolspread-OG.jpg
 
This is from Halo MCC on Xbone:

pistolspread-mcc.png
 
This is from Halo PC (unaltered):
pistolspread-hpc-unaltered.jpg
 
This is from Halo PC (with the tags altered according to Ifafudafi's theory):
pistolspread-hpc-ALTERED.jpg
^^This is indeed from the PC version - I'm working on restoring the OG versions of the maps, thats why the lip in the trench is visible and the AR is positioned like OG.
 
It appears that vanilla Halo PC's pistol spread is identical to the OG version and MCC. If I understood everything correctly, Ifafudafi may have been incorrect and MCC's pistol spread may be in line with the OG version after all.

 

As you can see, the pistol spread in all non-OG versions is significantly different! 

 

**BREAKING NEWS: PISTOL SPREAD IN MCC IS NOT IN FACT "JUST HOW YOU REMEMBER IT" **

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the tag setting that is supposedly changed upon map compilation (Jason Jones' last-minute adjustment):

Unaltered:
pistol%20tag%20unaltered.jpg
 
Altered:
pistol%20tag%20altered.jpg
 

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Does it really matter when the upper spread value only comes into account when you hold down the trigger?

 

I am wondering if maybe you really have to exaggerate the release of the xbone trigger or it thinks it's being held down?

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Does it really matter when the upper spread value only comes into account when you hold down the trigger?

 

I am wondering if maybe you really have to exaggerate the release of the xbone trigger or it thinks it's being held down?

Sorry I didn't specify - for these tests I fired the pistol one shot at a time. I didn't test holding down the trigger because that's silly and no one plays like that anyway (in which case you have a point - if the difference only occurs when holding the trigger, it really doesn't matter). But it appears that when played normally, there is no difference between each version.

 

^^This is false, bad testing

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Sorry I didn't specify - for these tests I fired the pistol one shot at a time. I didn't test holding down the trigger because that's silly and no one plays like that anyway (in which case you have a point - if the difference only occurs when holding the trigger, it really doesn't matter). But it appears that when played normally, there is no difference between each version.

Ohh, then I'd have to say that the camera man is not the shooter right? Where'd you shoot from?

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I shot from that very position (in front of the tombstone across and a bit to the right from the tombstone I was shooting at). Are you saying that because the bullet holes are at an angle? That's just because the bullet holes are decals and are applied parallel to the geometry.

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I shot from that very position (in front of the tombstone across and a bit to the right from the tombstone I was shooting at). Are you saying that because the bullet holes are at an angle? That's just because the bullet holes are decals and are applied parallel to the geometry.

 

I think he's just surprised how much spread there is at such a short distance. I have to say, I'm surprised too. 

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There isn't that much spread, I don't know what you did lol. One sec, uploading pic

Trying to do this on mobile is fucking ******** wtf is going on? am I an idiot? yes.

 

1182iqp.jpg

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Say wuttt

 

 

EDIT: Tested again, pistol spread is identical across all versions. Here's a video comparison:

 

http://youtu.be/dqCyPHW0KIw

 

Going to re-test, I was using the Xbox 360 version. I'll try it with my OG disk (don't have an OG box but as long as I use the OG disk it should be the same).

 

 

UPDATE: By God so it's true!

 

 

pistolspread-ACTUALOG.jpg

 

 

Same test with the OG disk.

 

(I'll upload a new pic another day)

 

 

 

**BREAKING NEWS: PISTOL SPREAD IN MCC IS NOT IN FACT "JUST HOW YOU REMEMBER IT" **

 

I WAS WRONG I DIDN'T TEST CORRECTLY (I HELD TRIGGERS FOR ALL TESTS EXCEPT OG)

 

 

 

I've edited my previous post to reflect these new findings.

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Re run the mcc test and wait a full second or two between shots, I'm curious if it's a controller issue or the Xbox interpreting the controller... that much spread is hold down trigger amount

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**BREAKING NEWS: PISTOL SPREAD IN MCC IS NOT IN FACT "JUST HOW YOU REMEMBER IT" **

 

just like i thought, chances to see this being fixed are sadly low i guess

maybe tweeting it out might somewhat help

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