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Monalumamonanan

Balancing Sprint

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As much as we hate it, it looks like sprint is here to stay. So my question is, does anyone have any practical ideas for balancing sprint in Halo. (Besides "Yea, take it out")

 

The no shield recharge is a nice touch, but is is that enough? I was thinking maybe getting shot while sprinting could knock you out of sprint completely for about 2 seconds or something. Also, since map design is an issue, what if 343 could just make small maps. I think of skyline and the pit remake in H4 where the maps were small enough to traverse without sprint and sprinting was kind of awkward because of the lack of space. Doing this could make sprint less useful without 343 having to remove it.

 

What do you guys think? Any ideas?

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I still don't agree with it at all. It fudamentally changes the game to to where I am doing nothing but traversing map space that could have been smaller if every player had a universal speed but now the maps are forced to accomodate two modes of player speed.

 

Why sprint when everyone could just move fast

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Well I'd... okay who am I kidding. I'd take it out.  Seriously look we're trying to come up with all of these half assed ideas to implement it, breaking maps, changing map flow and totaling traditional Halo gameplay in the process. Is looking slightly more modern by holding down a button to move effectively where before we just simply walked around really worth all of that trouble? No. How stupid does that sound when I put it that way? What value does sprint even add to Halo? None after we wreck everything to accommodate it?

 

I'm sure if we actually tried we could come up with new and modern features that don't shit all over how the game plays fundamentally. There is no need to hamfist garbage into the game when it already plays well.

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If 343 is actually trying to turn sprinting into an offensive mechanic, then how about increased tagging if you're shot at while sprinting? I believe h4 did slow you down when you were shot. Lets say when you're shot from a br in h5 you move at 80% movement speed for the next 2 seconds. Maybe if you're caught sprinting it'd be 65% for the next 4. Just some ideas.

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I have an idea that would be easy to implement:

 

If you hit the sprint button you die.

 

That way sprint can be kept in the game and everyone is happy.

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People seem to only consider how to balance sprint "internally", as opposed to changing the external game mechanics to work with sprint. The latter option will either work out very well or very badly, and seems to be what they've done in Halo 5.

 

An example of balancing the rest of the game around sprint would be the thruster pack, which is obviously now in H5. In the long-range battles caused by sprint, the TP adds a form of precise strafing that you simply wouldn't have if you just upped the movement speed. In these long-range battles, something like Gandhi hopping would be useless (the reasons for which should be obvious if you have any basic understanding of geometry), which is why removing it from H5 is somewhat less consequential than removing it from a game without these long-range battles. (This is why nobody really used it in H4.)  Other examples include increasing jump height, increasing base player speed in relation to sprint, adding in double-jumps and so on, all for the purpose of making long-range strafing a possibility - or, more generally, to increase the skill gap in combat from that range. You could also make sprint less useful as a getaway method by decreasing TTK or decreasing weapon switch times (check some of the videos and you'll see that switching to the pistol in H5 is near-instant), forcing both parties into confrontation.

 

Ultimately, if it works, changing the external game to work with sprint will have a positive and a negative side. The positive: it's a much more stable model for the franchise, meaning sprint will work optimally in comparison to balancing sprint from the inside (an example of which being no shield recharge), while still being able to appeal to the understated numbers of people who can't play older sprintless games. The negative is that it will undoubtedly change the core gameplay, which we can deal with by learning to #adapt by accepting that while, in terms of sales, old-style Halo would be perfectly successful and satisfy all current fans of the franchise, it would perhaps not be as successful as a shooter that takes the much-maligned elements of modern FPS and tweaks them into versions that actually work properly and either doesn't impact or benefits the skill gap. Like something as addictive, feel-good and responsive as CoD, except with a skill gap. Like CSGO in terms of how it feels, but less in terms of fundamental mechanics.

 

I'm definitely not comparing H5 to CSGO, by the way. I'm not even using H5 specifically as a base for these opinions, but rather this is what I've thought since day 1 of the sprint argument. This is me being objective, so none of this is based on any personal preference for what I think Halo should look like. This is what I'd do to make the highest-quality game possible, not necessarily the highest-quality "Halo" game. It could still very much be a Halo game, though.

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This is probably still the #1 thing I hate about H5, even with all the other bullshit that it's in there. Even after the TONS of negative feedback to sprint ever since it was introduced, they still just don't listen and don't care. It hurts the game in SO many ways and is completely unnecessary. As game developers it amazes me how they can't see that. Anytime you can't shoot in arena shooter, that is a bad thing. I hate the mantling too, for the exact same reason (although not as much). That also can hurt map design and the trick-jumping community. Neither should be in. If you took out those too things, and if there was option to go back to the classic Halo scope, then I MIGHT be interested.

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"Balancing Sprint." Just take it out.

 

Notice how people have to bend over backwards to get it to work in this game? That shows that it's fundamentally at odds with the gameplay and must be tuned in the most ridiculous way in order to function.

 

Halo is a simple shooter. Adding shit like this and trying to "balance" it will only serve to over complicate things for no worthwhile reason. It's plainly obvious that trying to force this into the formula (like adding a 2 into binary... or putting the square block into the circle hole) is only going to cause more problems, all because they just really want a mechanic that works in other games (but not this one).

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If you get slowed a little bit when you get shot while sprinting, then it should work perfectly fine. Especially with the no shield recharge while sprinting. Sprint was never properly implemented into the previous Halo titles, which is why everyone is so wary of it in Halo 5. However, it so far doesn't seem bad from what they are saying. Once we play it and personally get to feel how it is, then we can give our "final" judgement. 

 

I am hoping that the charge and slide work well and are implemented well. They can be very tricky to get right. But from the videos, the charge doesn't seem to be too crazy strong and doesn't charge too far. I think these new abilities will open up and change gameplay. This can be a good thing, especially if it adds new mechanics and can expand the skill involved in a gunfight.

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It can't be balanced any further honestly. If it's nerfed it will be utterly useless. If it's buffed it will be just like reach / 4.

 

So the only solution is to really just remove it.

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  • Allow nade throwing, meleeing, reloading and shooting while sprinting

     

  • Make sprint always on

 

Everyone wins

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If you get shot while sprinting, you cant move or aim for five seconds. Also shield recharge timer wont start for two seconds after sprinting. Also cant sprint off spawn for 10 seconds.

 

Or simply put reachs sprint in as a custim game option. It wont be in matchmaking except action sack. Same thing for all abilities.

 

Also if u want explanations. U cant immediately be 100% after receiving so much damage so no sprint off spawn. After running youll be more tired so ur shields recharge slower. Also as can be seen in soccer, if you get touched while running, you immediately fall to the ground helplessly. If halo is supposed to be brought ito the modern world, then sprint has to have this

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  • Allow nade throwing, meleeing, reloading and shooting while sprinting

     

  • Make sprint always on

 

Everyone wins

 

Apart from the people who enjoy sprint due to the hand-holding aspect: lowered weapons. But Halo shouldn't exist to please those people. Quite the opposite actually. Halo isn't succeeding until those kinds of people hate it, which is what used to be the case.

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Apart from the people who enjoy sprint due to the hand-holding aspect: lowered weapons.

Just add the botton combo for lowering weapons, I forgot the exact buttons and I think it was LAN only, but it was in H3, so just add that to h5 and we're golden.

 

OR add an option for players to choose if you want your weapon lowered during running (reach 4) or have it stay in place (orignal trilogy) and also an option for the sprinting sound. Literally everyone, from CoD kid, to CE purist to people who get a hard on from sprinting wins.

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Remove it.

 

"We know there are people who love sprint and there are people that feel like sprint has no place in halo". One of the devs said that but most people who "love" sprint seem to be indifferent to it instead. Most either haven't played Halo 1-3 or don't realize that higher movement speed can let them move faster. Get rid of sprint and casuals will still buy the game and most won't realize it's gone. Instead they want to potentially ruin another Halo game.

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Personally i would remove sprint , but based on what i read and seen these are possible ways that could balance sprint.

 

- Limited Sprinting

- 5 second cooldown and lncluding after every spawn

- Movement speed is decrease while getting shot at

- maintain no shield recharge idea

- Unable to sprint while getting shot *Note this will make charge attack and slide less effective*

 

I would probably choose a combination of these like Example

- Limited Sprint

- 5 second cooldown and lncluding after every spawn

- no shield recharge

- Movement speed is decrease while getting shot

 

Buff

- Shield recharge delay after sprint time reduce to 2 seconds from 4 seconds. so it doesn't affect to much the flow of the game.

 

Few Other spartan abilites changes

Thruster Pack
- Cool down increase
- Range movement decrease

 

Charge attack can now be done with thrusters. This change is to make thrusters to have an offensive Option.

 

I don't know why but its easy for me to balance things.

 

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Didn't read anyone's posts but here is my issue with sprint and why I think it will fail in H5.

 

I don't think a lot of people consider how deeply the roots of sprint go into the game. They see issues that are only "surface level". In H5 they are constantly talking about sprint and the issue of "running away" or "get out of jail free card". Sure, slapping "no shield recharge while sprinting" helps that. However that is a shallow surface level issue, not the deeper issue.

 

The problem is map movement is a fundamental aspect of a game. Think of a game like a house. Map movement is the foundation on which the house is built. If the foundation is not 100% perfectly engineered with all circumstances accounted for the house will eventually fall.

 

What I saw in the gameplay of H5 was that because of the shield recharge penalty players simply didn't use sprint. On one hand this sounds great because if you make it pretty much useless for real competitive gaming then it becomes a moot point (of course the question then becomes why include it at all then). However, the side effects of simply including the ABILITY to sprint is that the maps become larger (midship was huge). Weapons become more spread out because of this as well. Encounters become less frequent and gameplay just becomes slower. I don't think anyone finds that to be a good thing.

 

The better answer IMO, is to not add ANOTHER on/off mechanic such as sprint. Instead just alter base movement speed if you want "bigger" maps. Not only is this simpler to do, it is also much simpler to design maps around because you don't have to worry about "well someone might be sprinting here, but someone else might not be, so how do I design for both". The other option I think would be worth looking at is something like Unreal where you double tap to move faster or Quake where you strafe jump to increase movement speed. Both of those options are far more "skill" based then a sprint button and far easier to design for.

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