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In Defense of In-Game Weapon Timers

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or we could keep the text and teams have less expenses when traveling to tourneys?

or we dont.

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Coaches are a stupid thing in general in game but they do the same thing that the in game timers do

 

Also, h5 only gives 30/10 second notifications. Imo you should be timing a power weapon at least a minute before it spawns to get a set up going

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I actually completely agree with the post. I don't think there is much skill in reading a clock and memorizing what time weapons spawn. I think the real high level gameplay and decision making comes when two competitors know when a weapon is about to drop and attempt to outplay each other to obtain whatever it is. Manually timing things was just a useless bar to entry that delayed new players from developing the real skills of obtaining said weapon. If it was really that skillful I doubt they'd have ever allowed coaches to begin with because the only talent involved in it is being mindful of the clock while you're playing and coaches remove that element immediately as did talking timers.

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What ever you do, don't post that on a Quake forum....You will be crucified.

 

Halo players wanting in game timers just proves that it's largely a pseudo-competitive community. There IS a skill in being on top of weapon times whilst multi-tasking with a plethora of other things going on in the game. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. The fact that "coaches" are permitted at Halo events is also just laughable.

 

As for Halo 1, there is no in-game clock, so obviously there's no problem with using these timer-apps. With a game that features an in game clock, it should absolutely be down to the player/team themselves to time weapons and keep on top of them, rather than having the game lazily announce for them when items pop up. All it does is decrease the skill gap. Just thinking about players in Quake having an in game timer on duels makes my head hurt, it would be shunned out of the community in an instant.

 

For social playlists I've no problem with it, but in a competitive environment, the players should have to time themselves the weapon spawns and coaches should be BANNED from all events.

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For social playlists I've no problem with it, but in a competitive environment, the players should have to time themselves the weapon spawns and coaches should be BANNED from all events.

I'd have absolutely no problem with this either. The potential benefit of in-game timers rests purely with the casual or less-informed population, meaning it's more important to have them in social playlists anyway. If 343 provides us with a way to turn off timers, I don't think it would make competitive settings drastically different from the default game to the point where potential players are put off by the difference.

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What ever you do, don't post that on a Quake forum....You will be crucified.

 

Halo players wanting in game timers just proves that it's largely a pseudo-competitive community. There IS a skill in being on top of weapon times whilst multi-tasking with a plethora of other things going on in the game. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. The fact that "coaches" are permitted at Halo events is also just laughable.

 

As for Halo 1, there is no in-game clock, so obviously there's no problem with using these timer-apps. With a game that features an in game clock, it should absolutely be down to the player/team themselves to time weapons and keep on top of them, rather than having the game lazily announce for them when items pop up. All it does is decrease the skill gap. Just thinking about players in Quake having an in game timer on duels makes my head hurt, it would be shunned out of the community in an instant.

 

For social playlists I've no problem with it, but in a competitive environment, the players should have to time themselves the weapon spawns and coaches should be BANNED from all events.

What stops a quake player from plugging in his MP3 player with a timer?

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What ever you do, don't post that on a Quake forum....You will be crucified.

 

Halo players wanting in game timers just proves that it's largely a pseudo-competitive community. There IS a skill in being on top of weapon times whilst multi-tasking with a plethora of other things going on in the game. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. The fact that "coaches" are permitted at Halo events is also just laughable.

 

As for Halo 1, there is no in-game clock, so obviously there's no problem with using these timer-apps. With a game that features an in game clock, it should absolutely be down to the player/team themselves to time weapons and keep on top of them, rather than having the game lazily announce for them when items pop up. All it does is decrease the skill gap. Just thinking about players in Quake having an in game timer on duels makes my head hurt, it would be shunned out of the community in an instant.

 

For social playlists I've no problem with it, but in a competitive environment, the players should have to time themselves the weapon spawns and coaches should be BANNED from all events.

Quake has dynamic timers and also has fucking insanely loud sounds when core items are picked up so they can be tracked without commitment. The bulding nature of Quake (health / armour / weapons / key items) in both the individual and team games plays out completely differently to Halo.

 

EDIT; this pseudo-competitive bullshit is laughable by the way.

 

OT - completely agree with OP. It absolutely makes sense to remove the knoweldge barrier for the betterment of play throughout the skill range. I for one will not miss the 'skill' of being able to tell the time and memorize a shopping list.

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Coaches should be taken out even cod got rid of coaches. Audio and visual cues should not be there to show where and when an item is about to spawn atleast in tournment play. Its static timers on like 4 minute timers too lol. Why would we want that much timing assistance. danMaybe that is their thought behind that mantle bullshit, jump crouching for basic jumps isnt that hard, lets just have everyone capable of getting to to that platform.

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From the looks of Halo 5, removing timers will make absolutely no difference in competitive play.  No team worth thinking about is going to be playing any differently with or without timers.

 

What's the point in championing the removal of timers when it won't accomplish anything, we should instead be focused on championing the change of gameplay elements that will actually make a difference.  I'd be pissed if the community got them removed instead of something that matters.

 

All the in-game timers do is help new players understand the concept of timing weapons and help them learn what those times are on specific maps, all without changing gameplay at advanced levels of skill.  That is literally the definition of good game design.  These are the kinds of design decisions that games need if they want to be popular and competitive.

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What ever you do, don't post that on a Quake forum....You will be crucified.

 

Halo players wanting in game timers just proves that it's largely a pseudo-competitive community. There IS a skill in being on top of weapon times whilst multi-tasking with a plethora of other things going on in the game. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. The fact that "coaches" are permitted at Halo events is also just laughable.

 

As for Halo 1, there is no in-game clock, so obviously there's no problem with using these timer-apps. With a game that features an in game clock, it should absolutely be down to the player/team themselves to time weapons and keep on top of them, rather than having the game lazily announce for them when items pop up. All it does is decrease the skill gap. Just thinking about players in Quake having an in game timer on duels makes my head hurt, it would be shunned out of the community in an instant.

 

For social playlists I've no problem with it, but in a competitive environment, the players should have to time themselves the weapon spawns and coaches should be BANNED from all events.

except quake is a 1v1 game and has dynamic timers, not static. Also can u even pick up ammo of your fallen comrades/enemy?

 

 

Cascading advantages dont play well in halo

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I'm okay with it for social.

 

For ranked games, however, I feel like timing weapons adds to the skill gap. A team must be coordinated enough in-game to succeed, while being mindful of upcoming weapons to adjust their strategies (without a crutch mechanic telling them).

 

This is especially prevalent in competitive BTB, where having players that can time vehicles/weapons will literally change the game.

 

I could kind of liken it to micro/macro game management. You have to be focused on both to win. Can't be too deep into "playing" to forget about times.

How does timing weapons take skill? It's just memorization. I've been playing Halo and timing weapons since CE and I wouldn't say that timing weapons is a skill. Applying various strategies to acquire the power ups and weapons does. What's different from using a stopwatch or an app to time weapons than what will be in Halo 5? OP is right, this will help people to play Halo correctly.

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How exactly do the announcements for weapons work?

 

- Is it like Weapon spawns on min 10, 8, 6, etc... No matter when someone picks it up.

- Or it even times weapon pickups at 10:15 and lets everyone know.

 

If it's option 2 then why should the opponents know I picked up Rockets at 10:15 and they will spawn at 7:15?

 

And people who think there is no skill in timing, well this logic only works if weapon spawns work like option 1. If they work like in option 2 then NO there shouldn't be announcements, even in Option 1 it's stupid.

 

It's called the mental game people. Keeping a clear and smart head in game can be a skill.

 

Lets say the gametype is Ranked FFA Halo 3 on Snowbound with all players knowing spawn times and the announcer calls out the weapon in between those explosive cores underground, I don't remember if it was shotty or Laser, probably Laser. Anyway a smart mental game would dictate that a player heading to get that weapon without the announcer telling them would have a decent shot at getting it.

 

WHY?

 

Think about it, some people forgot, for various reasons like being in a fight or just plain forgetting. Some feel only 1 person is going for it and just let them get it and prepare to get something else or go for kills elsewhere. 

 

With the announcer you INSTEAD get lots of people feeling UNCONFIDENT in going for it. Sure dumb nubs will bumrush it and get picked off by someone camping it. People will think okay EVERYONE knows it's up so do I risk going for it knowing my chances of getting it are low. 

 

It's a different mental game, one where everything is spoonfed to you and making a mistake in not remembering is not punished.

 

It's supposed to be controlled chaos, NOT controlled control.

Weapons are on static times, and will spawn at the same time every time.

 

 

What stops a quake player from plugging in his MP3 player with a timer?

Dynamic timers.

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What ever you do, don't post that on a Quake forum....You will be crucified.

 

Halo players wanting in game timers just proves that it's largely a pseudo-competitive community. There IS a skill in being on top of weapon times whilst multi-tasking with a plethora of other things going on in the game. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. The fact that "coaches" are permitted at Halo events is also just laughable.

 

As for Halo 1, there is no in-game clock, so obviously there's no problem with using these timer-apps. With a game that features an in game clock, it should absolutely be down to the player/team themselves to time weapons and keep on top of them, rather than having the game lazily announce for them when items pop up. All it does is decrease the skill gap. Just thinking about players in Quake having an in game timer on duels makes my head hurt, it would be shunned out of the community in an instant.

 

For social playlists I've no problem with it, but in a competitive environment, the players should have to time themselves the weapon spawns and coaches should be BANNED from all events.

What's the difference between using a stopwatch or using an in game timers? At high levels of competition in Halo CE every player knew when and where weapons were spawning. That's not a skill, that's just memorization. Actually getting a hold of those weapons and power ups was what took skill. If everyone knows the spawn times and is going to time them, why not just make it a feature in the game?

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The H5 timers are just like Riot adding the Jungle timers to LoL this last season.

 

I think overall it's a good addition.

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@@wldstyl I literally explain in the post you quoted why I think it takes skill, and why I think it is not simply memorization.

 

Read more carefully or refute my points?

 

I'll give some examples anyway. I can't tell you how many times I've been in high-level, close, campy halo games where we have won because the other team was too distracted to pick up rockets. Or how many times I've lost tournament BTB games because we didn't track banshee or hogs properly. Does this mean I'm bad at the game? No, it means I have to work on multi-tasking. I definitely wouldn't want a crutch mechanic making up for my laziness/lack of focus.

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@@wldstyl I literally explain in the post you quoted why I think it takes skill, and why I think it is not simply memorization.

 

Read more carefully or refute my points?

bc the skill is very very minute. Also even on the pff chance someone isnt able to link together 14:00 with camo without an ingame audio timer, they could just use a real life timer that plays through their headset, snaps to their xbone, have a coach tell them, etc

aka what everyone uses anyway.

Also vehicle timers were dynamic and i dont think they will have an audio timer. And even then u can still use anything from the list above to track them

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@@wldstyl I literally explain in the post you quoted why I think it takes skill, and why I think it is not simply memorization.

 

Read more carefully or refute my points?

 

I'll give some examples anyway. I can't tell you how many times I've been in high-level, close, campy halo games where we have won because the other team was too distracted to pick up rockets. Or how many times I've lost tournament BTB games because we didn't track banshee or hogs properly. Does this mean I'm bad at the game? No, it means I have to work on multi-tasking. I definitely wouldn't want a crutch mechanic making up for my laziness/lack of focus.

At a high enough level I've never encountered players that forget about weapon spawns. Do you not like talking timers for Halo 1? Those were used very commonly at competitive level Halo CE tournaments and it's basically the same thing in Halo 5.

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Alright, I will admit that in-game timers would be useful for eliminating uneven advantages. Like the situations you mentioned with coaches or apps.

 

still think they add skill in a perfect situation though

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I feel like this would be good for maybe public matches but in customs or tourneys they should have a option of turning it off.

I agree, there should be an option turn it off. If there is weapon timer then that kinda defeats the purpose of a coach on a team. I feel it could be good, I would need to play the beta to get a

Better idea of how it would feel to play with it

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I agree, there should be an option turn it off. If there is weapon timer then that kinda defeats the purpose of a coach on a team. I feel it could be good, I would need to play the beta to get a

Better idea of how it would feel to play with it

in every other esport, coaches arent allowed to talk during the match. just play h1 if u want to know
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Alright, I will admit that in-game timers would be useful for eliminating uneven advantages. Like the situations you mentioned with coaches or apps.

 

still think they add skill in a perfect situation though

Think of it this way; playing against a competitive team the in game weapon timing will hardly make a difference. When Halo 5 comes out the first thing competitive players are going to do memorize the spawn times and locations. On the flipside, the randoms in matchmaking that never knew about timing will now be made aware of timing. Is that handholding for casuals? Absolutely, but at least the randoms will learn to play the game like us. This makes matchmaking more fun because randoms will actually be playing the game based on spawns, making them more worthy opponents, which is more fun in my opinion. Destroying noobs is fun, but I'd prefer good competition.
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What ever you do, don't post that on a Quake forum....You will be crucified.

 

Halo players wanting in game timers just proves that it's largely a pseudo-competitive community. There IS a skill in being on top of weapon times whilst multi-tasking with a plethora of other things going on in the game. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. The fact that "coaches" are permitted at Halo events is also just laughable.

 

As for Halo 1, there is no in-game clock, so obviously there's no problem with using these timer-apps. With a game that features an in game clock, it should absolutely be down to the player/team themselves to time weapons and keep on top of them, rather than having the game lazily announce for them when items pop up. All it does is decrease the skill gap. Just thinking about players in Quake having an in game timer on duels makes my head hurt, it would be shunned out of the community in an instant.

 

For social playlists I've no problem with it, but in a competitive environment, the players should have to time themselves the weapon spawns and coaches should be BANNED from all events.

There's more to competitiveness than the skill gap. If one team remembers a weapon is spawning and the other doesn't, that's an example of a wider skill gap at the expense of competitiveness. Halo is about two things: map control and competition over weapons/powerups. If a player doesn't get to experience one or either of those - in this case, competition over weapons - then that completely prevents them from enjoying proper Halo. It's like being forced to play campaign on easy mode. Who knows, it might actually lead to more players getting into competitive play.

 

To account for it, the skill gap should be widened elsewhere.

 

Fuck coaches, though. We've secretly been playing 5v5 at every tournament for years.

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@@wldstyl I already said I agree with timers for social in my first post...

But what is the difference between having them in social or in the entire game? In true competitive play at its highest level, it won't make a difference whether it is in the game or not. Why? That is because everyone already knows exactly when the weapons are spawning and where. So, since it doesn't change how they play the game at the highest level, then it should be fine right?

 

Adding the timers into the game breaks down one of the barriers of accessibility. The less barriers the better. This opens up the game so that true skill can shine. While memorizing stuff is a skill, it is not a great skill and it is not one that should really come into play in a competitive fps. The game puts more emphasis on your shooting skill, your team coordination, and your map strategy. 

 

Halo is also the ONLY esport that allows coaches to talk during the game to the players. As a coach is essentially an in-game weapon timer, it must not be a big deal in competitive play to have weapon timers.

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I would rather it not be there but it's not a feature I totally hate. The real timing of power weapons starts a minute before it comes back and that's on the low. Side. 30 and 10 second pop ups will introduce the concept to them. Power weapon timing is one of things that no one would know if they weren't told.

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