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CyReN

Halo Championship Series Season 1 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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You do realise that the whole Skill Gap thing is an opinion, right?

It's not. We can point to objective quantitative variables that measure a game's competitive merit.

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It's not. We can point to objective quantitative variables that measure a game's competitive merit.

I agree but I just wanted to throw this out there - I think you  guys exaggerate just how much is objective. Like, EVERY single feature of Halo CE (not just the obvious objective ones like killtimes/difficulty in aiming/spawns/timing/etc), you guys often argue is in some way superior in terms of creating a larger skill gap.

 

Like grenades. I've seen some of you guys talk about how they're the best in Halo 1. I believe they're completely fucked up. I get countless kills that are totally void of skill by throwing grenades. They are too powerful, have a huge blast radius, and there's so many of them. They are literally unavoidable in many situations no matter how skilled you are. I believe that the grenades in Halo 2 or Halo 3 are better in creating not only a more skillful environment but much more fun of a game.

 

Now how can you objectively and quantitatively argue against that? I guess one thing you can say is that the grenades' power works because of the power of the starting weapon, but come on, wouldn't you agree that at least something like this is opinion based?

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LET'S GO EG!!!!!

 

You do realise that the whole Skill Gap thing is an opinion, right?

 

Any opinion that another halo game takes more skill than h1 is wrong. 

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It's not. We can point to objective quantitative variables that measure a game's competitive merit.

It all depends on how you view certain game mechanics and if you define them as skilful or not. That is how I view it anyways

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I agree but I just wanted to throw this out there - I think you  guys exaggerate just how much is objective. Like, EVERY single feature of Halo CE (not just the obvious objective ones like killtimes/difficulty in aiming/spawns/timing/etc), you guys often argue is in some way superior in terms of creating a larger skill gap.

 

Like grenades. I've seen some of you guys talk about how they're the best in Halo 1. I believe they're completely fucked up. I get countless kills that are totally void of skill by throwing grenades. They are too powerful, have a huge blast radius, and there's so many of them. They are literally unavoidable in many situations no matter how skilled you are. I believe that the grenades in Halo 2 or Halo 3 are better in creating not only a more skillful environment but much more fun of a game.

 

Now how can you objectively and quantitatively argue against that? I guess one thing you can say is that the grenades' power works because of the power of the starting weapon, but come on, wouldn't you agree that at least something like this is opinion based?

Something does not become "subjective" just because it's complicated.

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Looks like the addition of Forge maps will definitely be coming once we have solid maps to choose from.

7082d89ca32a6d49f17765de39faaa16.png

 

thank the based gods

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Heres some insight into how it started, and hopefully we can end this cause it's rather pointless.

 

What I find funny is this really all started not because of Halo CE's skill, but because of current Halo's lack of depth, and the inability to create any diverse meta on any map. @@Sam and my complaints were more concerning the future of Halo, from a viewer standpoint and anyone who simply wants more than to play the same exact maps we played a decade ago and have been practicing for years. We were specifically talking about maps and forge maps. Although BXR/BXB don't add a whole lot of skill, at least Halo 2 Classic had some versatility and allowed for some individual skill to shine. H2A has removed that, has limited maps, and limited gameplay that we can't really improve upon unless we change things up, and that was the whole argument. Should we keep things fresh? A lot of people want something more than what we've been given. Or should we keep things the same? Well pro's certainly want to keep things the same, surprise surprise. Maybe you guys really think the game is deep? Or maybe teamshooting is just deep enough to the point where it's so engaging and fun that you guys can play for 12 hours straight like I could have for earlier halos. I don't know why we continue to settle for less but I stopped trying to understand the logic behind it other than it gives pro's a shot to stay on top.

 

I think I mentioned CE to explain how the game contains lots of intricacies and nuances as an example of what we could strive for in future Halos, and stated that the meta involved is pretty deep, and that I just don't see any depth in later Halo games. I would like to see an effort to have these nuances in future titles. That's where the CE debate started, and if I knew that Ryanoob had no intention of reading full sentences/posts and replying in a way that made sense I wouldn't have bothered trying to enlighten him like I asked him to do for me. I figured giving examples would be great but again, had I known his engagement in this I wouldn't have bothered.

 

It's all irrelevant though, not a single current pro is really involved with CE other than Ogre 2. Besides him, one of the better Halo players across the board is LegendPimps and he's one of the best CE players out there. His assessment of Halo CE vs Halo 2 at least comes down to pure individual skill vs team skill, and that was one of the points I was trying to push when I replied to Heinz. We're measuring two different levels of skills, but he emphasized the balanced between the two, stating CE had great individual skill with some important team skill, and Halo 2 as taking great team sill with some important individual skill. The rest of the series strips you of your individual skill or power, which as a result forces team skill to be a higher priority.

 

I do have some funny quotes from the CE guys about Ryanoobs statement though :P but really I would have avoided this all together if I knew Ryanoob more. There's a reason I went in depth with Heinz, and why I wouldn't bother with others. Some are more open, and some I feel pros have their hands over their ears yelling LALALA like Ryan or Lethal.

 

Hopefully we can let this rest because it's not going anywhere. I think really the original point was "Pro's, quit settling for such basic shit gameplay and map wise for the rest of the community so we can see Halo grow, rather than ask for the same thing year after year after year."

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Heres some insight into how it started, and hopefully we can end this cause it's rather pointless.

 

What I find funny is this really all started not because of Halo CE's skill, but because of current Halo's lack of depth, and the inability to create any diverse meta on any map. @@Sam and my complaints were more concerning the future of Halo, from a viewer standpoint and anyone who simply wants more than to play the same exact maps we played a decade ago and have been practicing for years. We were specifically talking about maps and forge maps. Although BXR/BXB don't add a whole lot of skill, at least Halo 2 Classic had some versatility and allowed for some individual skill to shine. H2A has removed that, has limited maps, and limited gameplay that we can't really improve upon unless we change things up, and that was the whole argument. Should we keep things fresh? A lot of people want something more than what we've been given. Or should we keep things the same? Well pro's certainly want to keep things the same, surprise surprise. Maybe you guys really think the game is deep? Or maybe teamshooting is just deep enough to the point where it's so engaging and fun that you guys can play for 12 hours straight like I could have for earlier halos. I don't know why we continue to settle for less but I stopped trying to understand the logic behind it other than it gives pro's a shot to stay on top.

 

I think I mentioned CE to explain how the game contains lots of intricacies and nuances as an example of what we could strive for in future Halos, and stated that the meta involved is pretty deep, and that I just don't see any depth in later Halo games. I would like to see an effort to have these nuances in future titles. That's where the CE debate started, and if I knew that Ryanoob had no intention of reading full sentences/posts and replying in a way that made sense I wouldn't have bothered trying to enlighten him like I asked him to do for me. I figured giving examples would be great but again, had I known his engagement in this I wouldn't have bothered.

 

It's all irrelevant though, not a single current pro is really involved with CE other than Ogre 2. Besides him, one of the better Halo players across the board is LegendPimps and he's one of the best CE players out there. His assessment of Halo CE vs Halo 2 at least comes down to pure individual skill vs team skill, and that was one of the points I was trying to push when I replied to Heinz. We're measuring two different levels of skills, but he emphasized the balanced between the two, stating CE had great individual skill with some important team skill, and Halo 2 as taking great team sill with some important individual skill. The rest of the series strips you of your individual skill or power, which as a result forces team skill to be a higher priority.

 

I do have some funny quotes from the CE guys about Ryanoobs statement though :P but really I would have avoided this all together if I knew Ryanoob more. There's a reason I went in depth with Heinz, and why I wouldn't bother with others. Some are more open, and some I feel pros have their hands over their ears yelling LALALA like Ryan or Lethal.

 

Hopefully we can let this rest because it's not going anywhere. I think really the original point was "Pro's, quit settling for such basic shit gameplay and map wise for the rest of the community so we can see Halo grow, rather than ask for the same thing year after year after year."

tldr Ryanoob should think before he speaks

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Now how can you objectively and quantitatively argue against that?

CE's grenades have the longest fuse time in the series which demand the greatest prediction of your opponent's movement. Their massive strength punishes players for putting themselves in a position to be hit by a grenade more than any other halo game. They also contribute to speeding the game up more than any other halo due to their strength, and faster gameplay demands faster reaction times.

 

Not to mention they allow for grenade tricks.

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It all depends on how you view certain game mechanics and if you define them as skilful or not. That is how I view it anyways

Sprint and bloom in reach made the game more skillful than any other halo IMO.

 

What's wrong with this statement?

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CE's grenades have the longest fuse time in the series which demand the greatest prediction of your opponent's movement. Their massive strength punishes players for puting themselves in a position allowing themselves to be hit by a grenade more than any other halo game. They also contribute to speeding the game up more than any other halo due to their strength, and faster gameplay demands faster reaction times.

 

Not to mention they allow for grenade tricks.

Yeah, they're more area of denial, instead of H2/H3 bounce, explode mid-air stuff. Which is the equivalent of giving everyone a brute shot at short range...

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Sprint and bloom in reach made the game more skillful than any other halo IMO.

 

What's wrong with this statement?

 

The wrong in that statement is that they did not explain why Sprint and Bloom made it more skillful. If they did, I would respect that opinion, and then give them my opinion on those mechanics.

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Looks like the addition of Forge maps will definitely be coming once we have solid maps to choose from.

7082d89ca32a6d49f17765de39faaa16.png

Salot was streaming his new simplex the other day

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if I knew that Ryanoob had no intention of reading full sentences/posts and replying in a way that made sense I wouldn't have bothered trying to enlighten him like I asked him to do for me

#indescribable

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The wrong in that statement is that they did not explain why Sprint and Bloom made it more skillful. If they did, I would respect that opinion, and then give them my opinion on those mechanics.

Bloom adds depth to the shooting meta by requiring you to pace our shots and not just mindlessly spam. Sprint adds depth to the movement meta instead of the one-dimensional movement speed of halo games without sprint.

 

What's wrong with this?

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Can we please move this whole CE/settings/ whatever discussion to another thread? This thread is supposed to be about teams discussion. It's gone more than a little off track lol.

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