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Halo Championship Series Season 1 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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It seems that only people who play the game at the highest level understand how complex of a game it actually is. It is indescribable and to argue the merits of each map via text is silly. The most important thing for the next year is competition, which from the rumors running about should not be a problem as long as we all come together as a community and support whatever the people in charge put into the game while suggesting what we want to them. There is no sense in arguing what is best anymore.

 

One question: Are you completely against getting some forge maps in the rotation?

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It seems that only people who play the game at the highest level understand how complex of a game it actually is. It is indescribable and to argue the merits of each map via text is silly. The most important thing for the next year is competition, which from the rumors running about should not be a problem as long as we all come together as a community and support whatever the people in charge put into the game while suggesting what we want to them. There is no sense in arguing what is best anymore.

 

Can you please for once expand on this? Please stop being vague. Enlighten me on the complexity that is Halo 3, Reach, or 4.

 

Have you ever played high level CE? Have you ever played Shadowrun? Those games can be considered complex.

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More like Lockdown ball. Haven't seen a well-known forged midship yet.

 

Yeah I know we were just talking about Midship and clones forever and people said these maps are the best for comp halo so I dropped this.

 

Sure Lockout ball is the way to go.

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It seems that only people who play the game at the highest level understand how complex of a game it actually is. It is indescribable and to argue the merits of each map via text is silly. The most important thing for the next year is competition, which from the rumors running about should not be a problem as long as we all come together as a community and support whatever the people in charge put into the game while suggesting what we want to them. There is no sense in arguing what is best anymore.

I'm still on meds from the doc so maybe this makes no sense lol, but dude if the game was so complex you could write it down. Write down that one map in h4 that salot made that made it so complex like maps from h1. If pros in Street Fighter can explain EVO Moment 37 which is only like 10 seconds of actual play, in an essay format, you can do the same. If pros in Quake can show a whole video of a 1v1 and explain the complexity of the game, if someone like Juicebox can explain what makes games like Street Fighter so complex by talking footsies for 40 minutes and if commentators exist you can talk how a map plays and is so complex. Because I seriously doubt H4/H2A is complex to the point where words cant describe it like you can for Quake, SF4, etc

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RC is Now PreDevoNatoR CntrA Sudd 1 Sudd 2

 

Scorched Halo is having Nerdy(AbK) "sub" for Cbus

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I'm still on meds from the doc so maybe this makes no sense lol, but dude if the game was so complex you could write it down. Write down that one map in h4 that salot made that made it so complex like maps from h1. If pros in Street Fighter can explain EVO Moment 37 which is only like 10 seconds of actual play, in an essay format, you can do the same. If pros in Quake can show a whole video of a 1v1 and explain the complexity of the game, if someone like Juicebox can explain what makes games like Street Fighter so complex by talking footsies for 40 minutes and if commentators exist you can talk how a map plays and is so complex. Because I seriously doubt H4/H2A is complex to the point where words cant describe it like you can for Quake, SF4, etc

 

To me there's a HUGE OBVIOUS reason no pro's can come in and talk about the depth or complexity in current Halos, yet consistently talk about how it's there, exists, and only top players can understand. Every single game you mentioned is exponentially deeper and complex than current Halo and it's possible. It's because it simply doesn't exist.

 

I just assume they haven't played any of the games you've mentioned, other wise they can tell the difference between a game that primary rewards reaction based gameplay, rather than rewards the smarter and more knowledgable players. It sounds insulting to say it doesn't take a brain, but all I mean by that is the player with better thumbs is more likely to win a higher percentage than someone who is truly a smarter player.

 

I just assume the more I respond to him the more he's cornered into realizing there isn't really much depth at all, otherwise it'd be as simple as you say to explain. Why aren't there huge thread write ups helping people to learn how to play current versions of Halo? Why am I struggling on deciphering the spawn system in a simple to understand way for new players? Why does Halospawns.com exist? How come I wrote 2,600+ words, and included roughly 30 minutes of video to help explain the depth of CE? None of those videos or words even go over the spawn system, or grenade points which are two of the larger and deeper aspects of competitive play.

 

It's so obvious to me it hurts.

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Call of Duty rotates its map pool once a year.

 

Here in Halo, we're using 10 year old maps.

 

If the current Halo Meta can be considered "complex" than I consider CoD to also be a "complex" shooter.

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Call of Duty rotates its map pool once a year.

 

Here in Halo, we're using 10 year old maps.

Of course call of duty uses new maps every year a new one comes out every year.

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Can you please for once expand on this? Please stop being vague. Enlighten me on the complexity that is Halo 3, Reach, or 4.

 

Have you ever played high level CE? Have you ever played Shadowrun? Those games can be considered complex.

I've played with good players in CE and kept up. (people who go to Ogre lans. I know this is arguable, but I don't think the game is complex as everyone thinks and if HCS was H1, give us 2-3 months and we'll be on par with the best CE players.)

I've played in a high level of StarCraft

I've played in a very high level of Dota

 

In all of my time in gaming, no one knows or understands the intricacies of their game like the players at the top. The forum kids, the casters, the amateurs, all don't understand and can't describe the way everything(almost anything) is at the highest level.

 

As I said earlier, we can't describe everything because it is indescribable!

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If the current Halo Meta can be considered "complex" than I consider CoD to also be a "complex" shooter.

CoD looks like it's doing alright for itself at the moment. Interesting mechanics, increased verticality, varied gametypes.

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I've played with good players in CE and kept up. (people who go to Ogre lans. I know this is arguable, but I don't think the game is complex as everyone thinks and if HCS was H1, give us 2-3 months and we'll be on par with the best CE players.)

I've played in a high level of StarCraft

I've played in a very high level of Dota

 

In all of my time in gaming, no one knows or understands the intricacies of their game like the players at the top. The forum kids, the casters, the amateurs, all don't understand and can't describe the way everything(almost anything) is at the highest level.

 

As I said earlier, we can't describe everything because it is indescribable!

Pretty sick gaming resume.

 

I dont really follow those esports, do Pros help choose the settings in Dota/SC as well?

 

Also, if pro players are the only ones who know the game, then why do they have analysts desks in some esports? Some esports even have coaches who arent top players. Is your argument still true?

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Pretty sick gaming resume.

 

I dont really follow those esports, do Pros help choose the settings in Dota/SC as well?

 

Also, if pro players are the only ones who know the game, then why do they have analysts desks in some esports? Some esports even have coaches who arent top players. Is your argument still true?

Its obvious what settings need to change in Dota/SC because everything is changed because they broke it (if a unit or hero is overpowered, they abuse it)

 

Coaches are interesting. I haven't had a better coach than Walshy because he understood the game, although I feel like I could be a better coach because I haven't stopped playing, he knew what he had to tell us and what he didn't need to tell us. Coaches who don't play at a high level really don't know their places on teams and it's quite obvious.

 

In other games, coaches are interesting. They are either people persons or are actually the coach of the team like a coach of regular sports team(they focus on the regime more than the actual game)

 

The analysts.. These are the guys who talk about a niche thing in a game that had a small impact in the game but they are very good at making it seem like it's a big deal and they talk about it very fluently. Every game has these and in the huge esports games, there are about 1/10 "analysts" that actually bring up strong points constantly.

 

 

 

I would rather bring these points up in a talk show than typing about them as my tone is very hard to tell through text and may be misconstrued. 

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Its obvious what settings need to change in Dota/SC because everything is changed because they broke it (if a unit or hero is overpowered, they abuse it)

 

 

I meant more like what you see in League of legends where season 5 basically reset the jungle.

 

 

 

In other games, coaches are interesting. They are either people persons or are actually the coach of the team like a coach of regular sports team(they focus on the regime more than the actual game)

 

What about the coach/analysts who look at other teams plays/look at how they set up. Surely that is some of the highest level of knowledge you can get (im agreeing with you but its different in some games, Korea likes to have 3/4 coaches)

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My english is not good, but I understand from this that ability to aim is a form of depth? No? I do not understand this because aiming is only a small portion of the game mechanics. How is aim skill on three path maps have better depth than more interesting maps?

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I've played with good players in CE and kept up. (people who go to Ogre lans. I know this is arguable, but I don't think the game is complex as everyone thinks and if HCS was H1, give us 2-3 months and we'll be on par with the best CE players.)

I've played in a high level of StarCraft

I've played in a very high level of Dota

 

In all of my time in gaming, no one knows or understands the intricacies of their game like the players at the top. The forum kids, the casters, the amateurs, all don't understand and can't describe the way everything(almost anything) is at the highest level.

 

As I said earlier, we can't describe everything because it is indescribable!

 

You are top rank pro in these games too? That is amazing. What was the best rank of you at a Starcraft or Dota event? I love pros that can play professional level in more games.

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In the MOBA genre pro players very rarely have direct input on the game.

 

Because these games are balanced around a completely static map, the only meaningful level of balance is champion/hero design. Riot balances almost purely off of pickbanrates and nothing else. If something is never being picked, it gets buffed, even if it has a high winrate. If something is being overpicked or banned every single game (like Kassadin was) then it gets hammered into the ground

 

Every now and then something's winrate gets hilariously out of check and it does get nerfed but pickrates are usually the stronger indicator of a problem. There have been a few isolated incidents over the years like Akali, Katarina, and Master Yi, who were all champions that had absurdly high winrate in low elo. These champions got nerfed even though they actually had no problems in high level play (Yi in particular was regarded as absolutely useless in high level play until recently).

 

Dota is balanced off the gut reactions of one practically anonymous chinese guy (girl?). I think he just watches a bunch of replays and decides what to do. It's a mystery there

 

Starcraft for purposes of RACES is balanced again purely off statistics. At first the balance changes were on a unit level, now they are at a point where if a particular build order has an unusually high winrate then they do something to shank that build order.

 

Maps on the other hand, are handled completely different because the tournaments effectively control that. OGN and GSL both had the same map process. A person would design a map (or a few maps) and throw it out to the community. If amateur reaction to the map was good then one of the leagues would take notice and send it to the professional B-team members and coaches who are not actively competing in the live tournament for beta testing. If they like it it's in. If the pros in the league hate the map they might comment on it publicly, but they are stuck playing on it anyway. In the BW days there were actually a handful of people who were employed directly by KESPA for the sake of making maps. Halo is not that far along yet, but whatever, the idea is still sound.

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