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Halo Championship Series Season 1 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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LAN Event Player Conduct

 

Players must not use obscene gestures, language, or offensive comments during

tournament activity. These include:

 

  • Profane words or phrases
  • Hate speech
  • Illegal drugs or controlled substances
  • Illegal activities
  • Controversial religious topics
  • Any “sound-alike” or “lookalike” words, or phrases, that reference these topics
  • Any other type of conduct deemed inappropriate at the discretion of the tournament organizer or 343

https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/community/hcs/halo-championship-series-handbook-v1-7c7f7463f8534480a1eb679d5e8dbb44.pdf

 

Half of the people competing will be DQ'd alone for swearing.

 

RIP gayspot, gayroom, gayhall, gay everything callouts

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No, I was always referring to the fact people wanted Midship style maps for the HCS settings and I was commenting on the previous maps such as Middy, Onslaught, Amplified, Simplex and Onyx. 

 

I have no problem with Lockout, Sanc and Warlock, they are good maps, although Lockout desperately needs Ball instead of TS/KoTH.

 

Ok, I definitely understand what you're saying. Lockout definitely does need some work too lol.

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Come on, even on maps that similar the meta has changed because of different spawn systems, different difficulty of shooting, range of shooting, player movement speed and communication evolving throughout the years. I don't know what to say if you don't think there are difficult decisions to make in any given game at the top level. What am I supposed to say here? That I can explain my decision making process of 4v4 H2, 4v4 H3, 4v4 Reach and 4v4 H4, but probably not in a very easy to understand way through text? Meh, IMO a lot of people are over-analyzing this just for the sake of debate lol. Every time I come onto this forum it's a debate similar to this with the same things being said, but without any depth. Sorry if I come off as rude.

The only reason the meta has change is because every new iteration of the maps were played on a worse version of Halo.
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If you want to show them something: http://www.forgehub.com/SecretSchnitzel/maps/Orion%20H2A

This is Orion forged by SecretSchnitzel. It is really good for KotH and should be tested. Also it is not something completely new since it is a better version of Halo 3s Construct.

 

Maybe timers need to be changed back to dynamic since the HCS settings still have dynamic timers (which isn't good imo)

 

Saw you post the link to Orion, figured a video of the map would be helpful. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMzv4VNSUJI&list=UUzGLSfWbq4CiqKFO9lU9HLg

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Are you talking about the H2A maps as well? I was focusing on the game we are playing right now (especially Shrine and Warlord). If you aren't, then I'm mistaken.

 

 

Come on, even on maps that similar the meta has changed because of different spawn systems, different difficulty of shooting, range of shooting, player movement speed and communication evolving throughout the years. I don't know what to say if you don't think there are difficult decisions to make in any given game at the top level. What am I supposed to say here? That I can explain my decision making process of 4v4 H2, 4v4 H3, 4v4 Reach and 4v4 H4, but probably not in a very easy to understand way through text? Meh, IMO a lot of people are over-analyzing this just for the sake of debate lol. Every time I come onto this forum it's a debate similar to this with the same things being said, but without any depth. Sorry if I come off as rude.

OT, long winded response. Not even a great read unless you really cared about the previous pages "discussions". but here you go.

 

 

 

@@Heinz,

Two maps specifically mentioned were Onslaught and Midship, and I'll throw you a bone by acknowledging that the spawn systems have changed, but to what extent? H3 had different weights on influence, and that included throwing a grenade to block spawns. That's a great example of a small nuance in a game that is beyond the surface level of gameplay, that provides some depth, despite it being a rather "simple" option. It's those types of examples I'm looking for, not a perpetual "you're not good enough" with "no depth" like you state. I've tried my hardest to get some depth out of his responses.

 

I think there are plenty of decisions in game that you make that are competitive, and effect the game in all Halos. I just feel that as each game in the series progressed, we've had less individual power, and versatility in various scenarios. Your in game decisions are based on the map you play, around the concept of higher damage output versus damage input, (team-wise this is) while also keeping the objective and or power ups/weapons in mind. You said yourself, we have different levels of effective range, speed, and difficulty of shooting. I feel as if there hasn't been any advancement in the series that had changed these in a way that added to competitive Halo, instead set a bar which the rest of the games have followed.

 

The emphasis on later games like I said has been team-shooting and holding set-ups. Before I expand, part of the problem is we are playing maps that we already had pushed to a pretty hard limit. Unless theres some drastic change to the spawn system, it won't effect much. One can also argue that there is less versatility in H2A due to the lack of the button glitches. Despite the level of skill they required, or lack of skill, they created a way deeper experience. I stopped playing Reach so I can't comment on that, but would you agree that Halo 3's meta could be summed up as team based, linear aggression? It was essentially the ONLY strategy that could work due to the range and inefficiency of the weapon. What other options did you have? What would you have to keep in mind? It was about getting the first shot in 1v1 battles, or pushing as a team with the numbers game, or proper baiting and switching. Those were some of the only ways you can be effective. Depending on the map, you either only worry about that, or also have power ups/weapons to worry about, which spawn at a pretty slow rate. Roughly every 2 minutes, you have to care about something, on average.

 

It can become a debate about individual skill versus team skill, as empowered as you were in CE as an individual, the team emphasis was arguably more important in CE compared to the rest. You have such an extent of control over what happens to your partner, just look in that video where one of the BEST Halo CE players in the world struggles due specifically to Ryanoobs lack of knowledge in how to play 2's. McDick physically had to shoot the ground, say stand there when I'm dead, and he still struggled to do that. It may be hard to understand through the video, but McDick struggles in the beginning almost completely because of his partner.

 

I'd be more than happy to go through the video with timestamps to explain the situations I am talking about, but that's really not the point I was making. It would possibly be better to give examples of what I mean when I say certain "decisions take a brain, rather than thumbs". In fact, it's going to sound dumb because it's so simple.

 

Chill-Out has a camo that comes up every 2 minutes, rockets every 2 minutes, and OS every minute. They're spread out on the map in various areas. In 2v2's, your team should be snowballing the other team by controlling all the weapons/power-ups. However, every 2 minutes, there are 3 very useful items up at the same exact time, which means you and your partner have to make a decision of what is most important to obtain, or easiest to obtain. Each of these items have a few various ways to get to the next item. This example can happen about 4-5 times in a match (10 minutes) You have to keep this in mind while you are constantly responsible for your partner. I'd suggest checking out Halospawns.com from our user @@Mintograde Go fly through various maps, and look at the percentage influence of spawns. While players can't calculate the algorithm in their head and get real time percentages, they keep this influence in mind at all times. I've spawned my teammate level 2 OS on Prisoner 3 times in a row while I waited for OS to spawn on top. That specific player doesn't understand how to play CE, and while getting him spawn killed was my fault, I made the cognitive decision that it was worth giving up 3 deaths directly in a row, to obtain top OS, despite giving up camo, because top control was more important. I made that play because I knew rockets weren't up on that cycle, and would have made a different play if that was indeed the camo/rocket cycle.

 

These decisions happen constantly, and all my moves are based around power up/power weapon control, while making sure the enemy doesn't get them. This doesn't mean your constant fight for rockets on The Pit. I have to be aware that any power-up I get can be naded from multiple spots, perfectly, 1 second before they're up. Each grenade trick is just another nuance to learn, but more importantly learn how to combat. I keep this all in mind while making sure I'm not in a position that will screw over my teammate, which again creates the snowball effect. Another aspect regarding power weapons, is that due to the overall fast pace of the game (dying quickly) you pretty much have about 30-40 seconds after picking up a power-up to make some good plays before you reset and set back up for continued control. What would you do in later Halos if you were up against Rockets/OS? It sounds dumb but in H1 you can simply grab the plasma rifle which gives MELTs shields, and slow/stuns players (preventing him from turning and rocketing you, or at the least trading) Options, versatility, the ability to overcome a disadvantageous situation by picking up the right weapon in the sandbox at the right time goes a long way.

 

It's really just the surface, maybe if I did use Ryanoob's video as an example, it would be easier to understand. At points McDick had no chance in obtaining Camo, but was doing all he could to prevent the other team from getting it. Ryan did nothing to deny camo, instead pushed straight and died. Again, maybe we can go deeper than this and equate it to a couple of various things. The major like I said, could be individual versus team skill in game.

 

That's also why I cite shadowrun. Arguably one of the hardest shooters to ever release on a console, and takes TONs of teamwork. However, the game gives you every literal tool to decimate multiple people, even in competitive private matches. It would certainly be harder to explain the thought process of Shadowrun. I can try if you want, but that might be extra off topic, I've just seen single individuals completely win rounds in competitive matches, and in pubs that would be 1 vs 8.

 

I had hoped for Ryan to expand on anything related to later Halo nuances and intricacies but he chose not to. Hope I got the point across and didn't come off as an elitist. It took me quite a while to learn how to properly play CE. It may not seem like it but a lot of people who share the same opinion as me would like to see Halo become more than what it has. I honestly feel lucky to say we still have the series but the sales are pretty good despite what changes they make. Deep down we just want Halo to become more of a chess match rather than a checkers match. Each game seems to have less depth.

 

Good talking Richie, I hope all is well from the H2 days.

 

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Screw it, I'll take a stab at CE (in spoiler, off topic obviously).

 

The reason why Ryan struggled in CE was due to lack of knowledge, not necessarily a lack of skill. He spawned Mcdick poorly several times because he simply didn't know the spawn points. That's why he said that in two or three months he thinks every pro would be able to compete in the game because in two or three months time you should be able to learn a lot of nade trick locations and the spawn points. Also, to play a game you don't necessarily need years of experience, all you need is to understand the current strategies, not ten years worth of strategies. I think any of the pros today could make the switch to CE and be successful, especially since I don't think the other games are as easy as a lot of people claim.

 

I think all the games have a lot to think about, I think more than Teapot may give them credit for in his other posts. In CE 2v2s, you're trying to figure out where two other players are while trying to keep your partner safe and staying in positions so if your teammate dies you can spawn him/her safely. If you know the position of one enemy you can pretty easily guess where their teammate will spawn (unless given a random obviously). This leads to fairly easy spawn kills if your teammate doesn't know spawns that well, or just keeps spawning you poorly due to keeping a position for other reasons. This creates a deep system of trying not to screw your teammate over, even if it means putting yourself in a vulnerable position.

 

If you look at any of the other games, 4v4s are the primary competitive gametype. In those games you have four enemies you have to track down and keep track of, while also keeping in mind your three teammates and their positions. While the single player isn't in complete control of spawns anymore, spawning can still effect gameplay. Things like line of sight, grenades, teammate positions, deaths, and enemy positions can all play a factor on a person spawning. You can't easily guess where an enemy will spawn anymore because it's not based off the position of one teammate, so now if you are trying to predict enemy spawns you have a lot you have to consider, and this is really important when you have multiple dead because if they spawn in a good position and you can't predict where they'll be, they can get an easy jump on you. In the middle of a match, you can't spawn your teammate exactly where you want, but it is still possible to guess where enemies will spawn and how your team positions to block spawns, or rotates to get an advantageous position over where you think they'll spawn next is incredibly difficult.

 

While power ups and power weapons can't be naded like in CE, collecting them comes down to setting up and eliminating enemies in the area in other Halo games, or pushing in and grabbing the weapon and trying to destroy opponents contesting the weapon before they kill you. If every game had static timers, trying to set up would take more skill than CE. In CE there are many positions you can stand and get weapons with relative ease due to the ability to throw grenades and have the weapons fly toward you. This is nothing but knowledge and takes rather little skill to do properly. If someone else is trying to grenade the weapon as well, it comes down to timing, which I don't think timing a single button press is that skillful, definitely not as skillful as trying to outshoot your opponents who are trying to contest the same weapon. One could argue that having to check so many positions for people trying to nade the weapon is more skillful, but I would say it's no more skillful than having to check positions for where enemies may shoot you from if you go for a weapon in an open position.

 

I'm not actually trying to say CE takes less skill, I don't think I'm good enough, or knowledgeable enough to make that judgement. But like Sir Scoots said on a Halo Council show once, as long as I can't jump in and play as well as Pistola with relative ease, who cares how hard the game is? I'm just trying to maybe offer a different point of view.

 

 

On topic, I'm glad to see Loophole Lion is back.

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wait what? So ryanoob is leaving VWS? 

Yeah

 

 

Tried to post tweet link but not working, must of done something wrong lol.

 

^ Thanks if a mod fixed =p. If not I'm magic.

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Yeah

 

 

Tried to post tweet link but not working, must of done something wrong lol.

 

Vws wasnt doing that well in all fairness, sucks for destin and tiz since theres hardly any good FAs left.

 

 

#1 sub  :)

 

Better than nothing I supposed haha 

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Wonder if Goofy goes to Str8 now. Definitely feeling bad for Destin and Tiz. 

 

edit: Never mind, if they pick up Prototype I think that would be good. No idea who goes to VWS then. 

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wait what? So ryanoob is leaving VWS? 

Sounds like it. 

 

 

Ryan making things happen for once instead of waiting. 

 

Str8 scrimming with Prototype right now. I like that 4th much better.

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To talk about "spectator experience" again, just after the pre-launch tournament I believe Lennox was asking for feedback on the stream and how they could improve.

 

I thought that if we were able to get some sort of stream overlay of weapon/powerup timers it would be a nice little addition to the stream. Obviously it requires someone to monitor and reset the timers but it's something I'd like to see.

 

The other option would be to have a 3rd commentator who chimes in with things like "We have snipers coming up in X seconds" similar to what DMAQ used to do back in H3.

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Think Naded said yesterday that they're most likely going to stick with Prototype as their 4th.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Clutch go to VwS and Denial will be much better with Ryanoob no doubt.

 

Str8 vs Optic right now

twitch.tv/naded

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