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CyReN

Halo Championship Series Season 1 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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dude dont worry I think most people on this forum just know not to bring up any opinions on halo games because if your opinion is not "halo 1 is the best ever no one should play anything else" you get attacked for having an opinion.

And it's why pros don't want community involvement with maps. They just get attacked because they understand stuff they dont

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Hey Ryan, if I asked some simple, concise questions on here, would you have an easier time of then answering them in that kind of manner? As a sort of guideline of sorts.

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But I can't stand reading shit like this

And I can't stand posting it.

 

You'd think people would get it after a decade. Especially a group of people as analytical as those who frequent this site.

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I said that about game mechanics and I still think it's true, and h2a has improved on it. I didn't say which game was harder or more fun or should be played competitively, because honestly, I don't care and it isn't important, they are all fine.

 

Fuck I posted another opinion.

No the reason people are upset with you isn't your opinions it's that you turn around and say that people who aren't as good as halo as you can't understand what you're talking about and even if they could too much of it is impossible to describe

 

The reality of the situation is the Halo community has thinned out to the point where even if we can't play on your level we understand the higher order concepts, so perhaps if you actually sat down and wrote a paragraph or two, instead of effectively say "you are all too bad at halo to understand me" albeit in a pleasant and roundabout way, you wouldn't have so many people upset with you?

 

We all got plenty of time to kill around these parts. I'm sure if any pro player posted a thread with a little essay about even the most mundane aspect of Halo the community would eat it up and you'd get 500 replies.

 

I've seen the pro feedback on forge maps before, and its a mix of:

- Complaining they don't want to do this

- It's trash

- Spawns are awful

 

Instead of explain WHY its trash or WHY the spawns are awful

 

Regarding my own little map, I only got feedback from 1 pro player ever, he just sent me a theater video and said something to the effect of "hey nice map. better for a warmup than octagon cause i can't figure out how to spawnkill people so that's cool. i think it should only have 1 sniper with more ammo tho" and i replied back to him that the reason GH has 2 snipers is to guarantee that there's at least 1 even sniper vs sniper battle every minute instead of 1 player pounding on the enemy with it like on guardian and he said "o that makes sense i guess i didnt think about that" and that was it.

 

The video he sent me was honestly more useful than anything he had to say and it was the reason why I changed the OS settings so drastically.

 

I've never seen a pro player come back and offer the level of feedback forgers give each other at any point. It seems like half the time if they think something is awful about the map if you turn around and explain it to them they're just like "oh i get it thats not so bad". And honestly, instead of blindly rage about spawns, I wish they would explain /why/ they think the spawns are bad. Honestly I still don't even know what pro players consider to be "good" spawns at this point.

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You know what would be great if forgers and pro's would be able to co-operate on maps. And actually discuss between one another about the map's design, the intentions of the forger for the design with the added 'knowledge' of high level players.

 

If only.. Lol

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To chime in on this conversation I felt that certain aspects of Halo 4 were enjoyable (most notably in the shooting) while I was not a fan of flinch I could deal with sprint if there were harsher penalties. I would have give anything to play H4 with descope because I felt like the fundamentals were there for a good game.

 

The issue is I come from a different background than most of the people posting on this forum. I've played COD extensively and grew used to things like sprint so it's inclusion to Halo didn't really bother me regardless of the fact that I played so much or Halo 2 and 3.

 

Where Halo 4 failed for me was in the loadout system. There was no reason to include that in the game because that was never the Halo experience for me. When I played H3 matchmaking I knew I would spawn with an Assault Rifle, or if specified, a Battle Rifle. To me that was the defining turn off of Halo 4. The feeling of being better than everyone else because we were on an equal playing field was gone and that, in a way, ruined the Halo experience for me.

 

You shouldn't be "wrong" for stating your opinion on this forum and that mentality needs to stop but I'm probably preaching to the choir on this one.

 

Side Note: I hated Reach because the vanilla DMR was RNG.

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dude dont worry I think most people on this forum just know not to bring up any opinions on halo games because if your opinion is not "halo 1 is the best ever no one should play anything else" you get attacked for having an opinion.

 

As far as I can tell, it's all in the wording. I've made a couple of points where I felt Halo 2 was the "best" game from an overall fun standpoint, but stand by my opinion that Halo CE is the most competitive through a couple of objective points. I don't think anyone really cares who likes which games best, but I think there are plenty of people who are tired of listening to vague opinions from people who seemingly have a higher weight of opinion for no reason other than they are successful at a current game. 

 

Like this started a couple pages back, and I'm against Onslaught and Midship being used to make it "the most competitive". I find it a dumb argument, there's no reasoning to support this other than "thats what we used to play and it worked". Then, someone posted that they really enjoyed Onslaught, and that they did really well on it and thought it was fun. I didn't tell him he was wrong, in fact I agreed with him. Onslaught can be enjoyable and fun, but my whole involvement within all these posts comes from my frustration of the declining years of Halo's depth.

 

We have a lot of different games, opinions, and mentalities in our communities. Regardless of your favorite game, we seem to have people who:

  • Aren't happy at all with the game competitively, and want some extreme classic changes to bring it back to classic Halo
  • Aren't happy at all with the game competitively, and want some extreme new changes to freshen up Halo
  • Are fine with the current games direction and are indifferent on what happens
  • Are fine with the current games, as long as we can play classic 4v4 maps and gametypes with BR starts.
  • Are happy with the current games and hope to see Halo expand and innovate the genre.

it's a difference of opinion on how you feel about the game, however the ones who aren't happy with the game feel that their opinions and ideas will help create a deeper game or add some versatility to it, while we view those who "fine" with the current game as the ones who are willing to accept all the changes (like what we're witnessing with Halo 5). Lots of opinions but first and the last are two extremes, and both sides of each opinion are rarely presented in a mature way.

 

 

 

You shouldn't be "wrong" for stating your opinion on this forum and that mentality needs to stop but I'm probably preaching to the choir on this one.

 

I agree with the rest of your post, that's why I deleted it. Nobody should be "wrong" for their opinion, but everyone's opinions should at least hold a similar weight. Posting that people don't understand the nuances and intricacies of Halo 4 / Halo2A because they aren't good enough is humorous to me, especially when so much time is invested into that point rather than enlightening anyone.

 

I'm completely open to any opinions, but it's mostly how you present your opinion, and also how you back it up. I'm completely fine with anyone challenging anyone else's opinion if it's met with mutual respect.

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I think this "conversation (debate) " has gone to an unintended territory.

 

I think we should return to the discussion of maps/game-types that should be used for HSC. I think that conversation is more important. The fact of why ryanoob liked halo 4 and halo reach is not going to move the discussion in the right direction.

 

I am going to stick my original point that I would rather have newer maps and gametypes that force teams to come up with new strategies and learn new maps. I am a big fan of warlord bomb. I would like to see lockdown KoTH tested. Even maybe introduce a camo to lockdown to force some map movement on the map. 

 

In a terms of a new forge map. I am hoping something like Construct (something vertical) or something like Nexus (from halo reach). I do not want to see a 2/4 base map like onslaugt/midship.

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@@Zanno

I worked with forgers for a while back in Reach on the MLG forums before, maybe things have changed but I don't feel like doing it again.

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The forge section here is not busy, but I know there are a couple others with cool maps posted. I go to Halo Customs because I like minigames sometimes, but Forge Hub has a lot of competitive maps. I saw some pretty cool ones there you might like too.

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@@Zanno

I worked with forgers for a while back in Reach on the MLG forums before, maybe things have changed but I don't feel like doing it again.

Well what went wrong?

 

My comments were mostly pertaining to Halo 3. Like the Halo pros were so stubborn they didn't even want to use a Sandbox remake of Onslaught (that one's utterly baffling). I didn't really get involved with Reach at all because I didn't like the game and forge had massive FPS issues.

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 In a terms of a new forge map. I am hoping something like Construct (something vertical) or something like Nexus (from halo reach). I do not want to see a 2/4 base map like onslaugt/midship.

Posted this a couple of pages back. http://www.forgehub.com/SecretSchnitzel/maps/Orion%20H2A

 

Pretty similar to construct and hopefully people start testing this for hill and giving feedback. Especially pros with streams so they can spread the word of the map and more people can start testing it. 

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maybe noob should be a guest on a bomb planted. this is a good topic of maps/forge/pro/whats best for community i would like to hear discussed further.  its been keeping me entertained lately.

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LAN Event Player Conduct

 

Players must not use obscene gestures, language, or offensive comments during

tournament activity. These include:

 

  • Profane words or phrases
  • Hate speech
  • Illegal drugs or controlled substances
  • Illegal activities
  • Controversial religious topics
  • Any “sound-alike” or “lookalike” words, or phrases, that reference these topics
  • Any other type of conduct deemed inappropriate at the discretion of the tournament organizer or 343

https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/community/hcs/halo-championship-series-handbook-v1-7c7f7463f8534480a1eb679d5e8dbb44.pdf

 

Half of the people competing will be DQ'd alone for swearing.

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I'm completely open to any opinions, but it's mostly how you present your opinion, and also how you back it up. I'm completely fine with anyone challenging anyone else's opinion if it's met with mutual respect.

 

I think this is a point that many on the opposing side of your argument are clearly missing. If someone wants to argue the competitive merits of rehashing the same maps we've used for years (though I disagree) that is completely fine, but arguing your side with low effort posts and "I don't even have time to explain why I don't have time to explain"-type of explanations makes it really hard for someone trying to understand you. 

 

Regardless, I think this discussion has gone in circles by now and would best be left for something in a talk-show type of environment like Ryanoob mentioned. 

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So there's going to be $1000 tournaments every week (excluding when LAN events are happening)? I only skimmed over it so someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

In that's the case, that's great. Will be even better when the game is working better and players/spectators on twitch don't have to wait minutes after every game for people to join/leave.

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@@Zanno

I worked with forgers for a while back in Reach on the MLG forums before, maybe things have changed but I don't feel like doing it again.

 

Let me know if you do ever want to expand on anything you posted like you said. I think that would be really cool and probably paint a better picture of what you're trying to convey through text.

 

I am watching your gameplays from Halo CE though and I have to disagree that you kept up with any of those guys, and only 1 of them is arguably a top player. I'm not posting this to knock our skill level down or call you a liar or anything like that, but I honestly can point out plenty of nuances in various gameplays that would help you out, but more importantly help you help your teammate out. I'm nowhere near a top level player, not even close.

 

I would love to see any pro in general go through some current Halo gameplays of other pros, and do a commentary on what they did or what they should have done. Videos like that are so helpful to players its ridiculous.

 

 

this is a good one, you can even see McDick shoot the ground so you can stop getting him spawn raped.

 

 

 

 

 

That's it for me though, too many OT posts trying to understand a point and get a point across.

 

 

 

I think this is a point that many on the opposing side of your argument are clearly missing. If someone wants to argue the competitive merits of rehashing the same maps we've used for years (though I disagree) that is completely fine, but arguing your side with low effort posts and "I don't even have time to explain why I don't have time to explain"-type of explanations makes it really hard for someone trying to understand you. 

 

Regardless, I think this discussion has gone in circles by now and would best be left for something in a talk-show type of environment like Ryanoob mentioned. 

 
Completely agree, but I think both sides often miss the points. It's practically impossible to have a level headed look through each POV since the result of the games would be so different if either POV was in charge. I analyze too much, and probably read into statements too much as well and it's a blessing and a curse. I could have been digging for answers deeper than he even intended but after a while it felt like pulling teeth.
 
It's why I asked to be enlightened. Maybe that sounds like a dick thing to say but I actually mean it. I've had some PM's with people with the completely opposite opinion of mine. Every single one of those ended with each side understanding why the other side felt that way, and made each other more aware of their stance in general.
 
I'd love to do something like that. There was a user here that had his own podcast or w/e, I doubt I'd be on a bomb planted show though. I also don't really see anyone on the panel that would really go in depth into this unless they brought in someone like cT.
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but if we want Halo to grow it needs to first be viewer friendly.

The pros are nice to consult for this, not so much on how to make the game more skillful though.

 

Hopefully by now you can see why someone like SAM knows more about making Halo more competitive than someone like Ryanoob.

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You know what would be great if forgers and pro's would be able to co-operate on maps. And actually discuss between one another about the map's design, the intentions of the forger for the design with the added 'knowledge' of high level players.

 

If only.. Lol

 

I tried this and everytime i got pros in games with forgers the forger wouldn't listen and had that idea that nothing was wrong with their map and that the pro was wrong.

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So there's going to be $1000 tournaments every week (excluding when LAN events are happening)? I only skimmed over it so someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

 

In that's the case, that's great. Will be even better when the game is working better and players/spectators on twitch don't have to wait minutes after every game for people to join/leave.

Yes their are $1000 online tourneys every week.

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LAN Event Player Conduct

 

Players must not use obscene gestures, language, or offensive comments during

tournament activity. These include:

 

  • Profane words or phrases
  • Hate speech
  • Illegal drugs or controlled substances
  • Illegal activities
  • Controversial religious topics
  • Any “sound-alike” or “lookalike” words, or phrases, that reference these topics
  • Any other type of conduct deemed inappropriate at the discretion of the tournament organizer or 343

https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/community/hcs/halo-championship-series-handbook-v1-7c7f7463f8534480a1eb679d5e8dbb44.pdf

 

Half of the people competing will be DQ'd alone for swearing.

 

Ok, so during tournament activity. It says no illegal drugs. So does that mean they will be doing some drugs tests if the person seems suspicious of these activities?

 

Hide your adderall boys.  :lxthul:

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The pros are nice to consult for this, not so much on how to make the game more skillful though.

 

Hopefully by now you can see why someone like SAM knows more about making Halo more competitive than someone like Ryanoob.

 

Ryan wants the game to take a lot of skill. BUT HE WANTS THE DEVELOPER TO MAKE IT THAT WAY AND NOT SEPARATE THE COMPETITIVE COMMUNITY FROM THE HALO COMMUNITY AGAIN.

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