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Halo Championship Series Season 1 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I don't think people are against complex or more interesting maps. In my opinion people are against forge maps that are complex and or "more interesting".  We all want to play a game that takes more skill and strategy, but if we want Halo to grow it needs to first be viewer friendly. We can't pull a H3 or Reach where we change the competitive settings so much from the original "vanilla" game that we alienate the casual player. We want younger kids to be interested enough to watch and grow the scene so that it can ride a wave of interest for a while.  We need the developer to actually make maps that aren't remakes and are new and fresh. Forge maps are hard to follow for viewers as is because they aren't as easily accessible to everyone who plays the game. That's for the most simple of forged maps, now just think about how hard it is to follow a map that is forged and is more complex.  Its not viewer friendly. AT ALL.

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I agree with Zanno 100%. I would also add that there is also a sheep mentality among some of the "eSport followers". Some people will idolize Pro players and can't think for themselves. They end up regurgitating whatever they hear the Pro say. So the Pro's don't push for change because why should they give up years of experience learning certain maps and strategies when they can exploit that to stay on top? And those that can't understand that the majority of Pro players really don't have a clue about real game design end up following everything they say like sheep and also push back on these changes. Honestly, at this point I don't see the Halo community being willing to really accept any new or fresh ideas in map design or mechanics.

 

Please note that I don't mean this in an offensive way, it is pretty basic human behavior and not just exhibited in Halo or gaming.

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I don't think people are against complex or more interesting maps. In my opinion people are against forge maps that are complex and or "more interesting".  We all want to play a game that takes more skill and strategy, but if we want Halo to grow it needs to first be viewer friendly. We can't pull a H3 or Reach where we change the competitive settings so much from the original "vanilla" game that we alienate the casual player. We want younger kids to be interested enough to watch and grow the scene so that it can ride a wave of interest for a while.  We need the developer to actually make maps that aren't remakes and are new and fresh. Forge maps are hard to follow for viewers as is because they aren't as easily accessible to everyone who plays the game. That's for the most simple of forged maps, now just think about how hard it is to follow a map that is forged and is more complex.  Its not viewer friendly. AT ALL.

I agree with this alot.Sure, forge maps would add variety for us who play the game, and static timers/110 speed/all the other stuff would be better, but we need viewers to make Halo a big esport.

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Static timers and power weapons and power ups on faster timers is something that needs to happen so the flow of the game doesn't get stale, but if 343 doesn't implement it game wide we can't just separate the community from the developer as we did in the past.

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Nice, would like to see some of the posters/staff on here help too with testing so everyone is happy.

I feel like if you let me test, we'd end up with Plasma Rifle and Fuel Rod Cannon starts with Simplex being the Oddball map.

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I've played with good players in CE and kept up. (people who go to Ogre lans. I know this is arguable, but I don't think the game is complex as everyone thinks and if HCS was H1, give us 2-3 months and we'll be on par with the best CE players.)

I've played in a high level of StarCraft

I've played in a very high level of Dota

 

In all of my time in gaming, no one knows or understands the intricacies of their game like the players at the top. The forum kids, the casters, the amateurs, all don't understand and can't describe the way everything(almost anything) is at the highest level.

 

As I said earlier, we can't describe everything because it is indescribable!

If you haven't followed every gaming scene at a good level, don't make a statement like you said in your last point.

 

The FGC has analysts/commentators who do not go over niche stuff and go over main big points in the game because the games are too fast to explain more niche stuff. Like how Fuudo in EVO 2014 was weakening his defenses on purpose so snake eyes would use St.HK because he wanted Snake eyes to use it so Fuudo can use Focus Attack and punish it. But Snake eyes knew Fuudo was doing all that as a bait and Snake eyes would not budge. That is NOT a niche subject to talk about, Gief vs Fei is a slow ass match. Which means every hit matters, If snake eyes budged and started using ST. HK he would have fucked himself over and lost the round most likely. IIRC I think James made that point on /r/sf4

 

James is actually a really fucking good player and has made 100s of hours of videos helping players to get better, Seth has made the Domination 101 series, people have explained footsies (which is a HUGE thing in Fighting Games)  who are analysts, Combofiend is a ridiculous guy when it comes to reads and will call that shit and be correct every time, Tampa Bison is a top player who has made multiple articles on how to get better, etc. Those are all analysts (besides Tampa who still competes regularly) who know top level mentality and because of those articles have helped players get to the top level. In SF4 (Or FGs in general) there isn't this damn secret on how to be the best or some secret that only the best of the best only know and without it you cant be that good either. Because if that was true, ChrisG wouldn't have gotten bodied by Senor Taxi, Daigo wouldn't have been eliminated before top 32 at EVO, Infiltration who dominated 2012 wouldn't have lost to Fourwude in a mirror match, etc etc

 

And FGs are definitely way harder to get good at than Halo. So if FGs don't have this crazy secret why does Halo, a much weaker competitive game have it?

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I feel like if you let me test, we'd end up with Plasma Rifle and Fuel Rod Cannon starts with Simplex being the Oddball map.

 

I still want Light Rifle starts for H4 damn it! 

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Static timers and power weapons and power ups on faster timers is something that needs to happen so the flow of the game doesn't get stale, but if 343 doesn't implement it game wide we can't just separate the community from the developer as we did in the past.

Exactly, id take developer support and viewers over a better game to play in customs.

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I don't know anything from the FG community

I only have the opinions I have stated from my experience

All of the things I have said are from my opinion, which I have stated multiple times, and are not representative of the professional community.

 

The amount of 'hate' I am getting from my opinions makes it seem as though my point of view is not being represented accurately and I'm not going to be commenting anymore on these opinions as what I think is not being represented from the text that I am posting, apparently.

 

Lol, that sounds like an HR response.

 

 

If anyone from beyond or something wants to have a 'debatish' Q&A it'd be fun.

 

 

I'm going to reiterate one of my former posts. It honestly doesn't matter. None of this is anywhere near as important as coming together as a community and accepting whatever comes and making it a competition.

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My bad if I'm sounding like a douche but honestly I don't see how every game has this mentality only the top players have. Because if top players have this secret that cant be described how can locals/semi decent players be able to defeat them or even get close without this knowledge?

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My bad if I'm sounding like a douche but honestly I don't see how every game has this mentality only the top players have. Because if top players have this secret that cant be described how can locals/semi decent players be able to defeat them or even get close without this knowledge?

It seems they do because in almost every competitive game it seems players who have been on top for awhile don't fall off (if they choose not to) example would be not playing anymore or losing interest in the game and not caring. I don't remember any crazy no name to4 locals that come to win any halo event or even players that are known as "semis" even coming in contention for top 1. It seems people who have been there seem to be at the top constantly in almost even comp game.

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I know this is arguable, but I don't think the game is complex as everyone thinks

Wrong.

 

Halo CE is more complex than every single console fps aside from shadowrun. That is not arguable, it's just fact.

 

This post proves that pros don't understand game mechanics and design best, especially when they say things like "halo 4 is the best yet," and "asymmetric maps are bad for competitive play."

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Wrong.

 

Halo CE is more complex than every single console fps aside from shadowrun. That is not arguable, it's just fact.

 

This post proves that pros don't understand game mechanics and design best, especially when they say things like "halo 4 is the best yet," and "asymmetric maps are bad for competitive play."

who the hell said Halo 4 is the best? I really wouldn't count it if they said it at some pre release event they got invited too because I bet any money that most people on this forum would say the same thing if you were a vip at some event and got to play a game before hand. I bet if you ask any pro now if halo 4 is the best they will say no so that is invalid.

 

It also seems you have some vendetta against pros considering you are basing the whole "pro" scene on acouple "quotes" .

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If anyone from beyond or something wants to have a 'debatish' Q&A it'd be fun.

I would pay to see you go at it with cT or lemon.

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It seems they do because in almost every competitive game it seems players who have been on top for awhile don't fall off (if they choose not to) example would be not playing anymore or losing interest in the game and not caring. I don't remember any crazy no name to4 locals that come to win any halo event or even players that are known as "semis" even coming in contention for top 1. It seems people who have been there seem to be at the top constantly in almost even comp game.

h4 had some IIRC at the agl events, h3 had fb vs jackalopes iirc (didn't watch h3 for more than a year so cant say much on it, Reach had Mikwen, Ninja, formal, h1 had ogres (Who were randoms before) defeat reigning champs. You generally get people with some credibility somehow beat the top players. Obviously it doesn't come out of no where as getting good at any comp game requires a shit load of dedication and smarts, but it happens. And if you don't beat them subconsciously, you did it by being good and being smart/knowledgeable, knowledge you didn't have previously. So yes, a pro can probably explain how a whole game works in their mindset like Quake for example has done previously

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who the hell said Halo 4 is the best?

Ryanoob. And he still holds that opinion.

 

He also thinks reach is the second best halo.

 

So yeah, I have a vendetta against people like that, not pros specifically, because they influence the development of a game.

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I don't know anything from the FG community

I only have the opinions I have stated from my experience

All of the things I have said are from my opinion, which I have stated multiple times, and are not representative of the professional community.

 

The amount of 'hate' I am getting from my opinions makes it seem as though my point of view is not being represented accurately and I'm not going to be commenting anymore on these opinions as what I think is not being represented from the text that I am posting, apparently.

 

Lol, that sounds like an HR response.

 

 

If anyone from beyond or something wants to have a 'debatish' Q&A it'd be fun.

 

 

I'm going to reiterate one of my former posts. It honestly doesn't matter. None of this is anywhere near as important as coming together as a community and accepting whatever comes and making it a competition.

 

Since you're quoting nobody, is this a reference to my post? My whole posts with you have been to discuss and debate these opinions. I've asked questions, haven't gotten any real answers yet though.

 

I really hope you do see my post and see the point I'm making, and you decide to comment on it. It makes less sense the more we discuss it, but that's why I ask for specifics, and I guess that's why I'm also confused.

 

Are those Top Halo CE players correct in stating that you wouldn't even be near the top after 3 months? Or do you feel you really have that opportunity?

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I said that about game mechanics and I still think it's true, and h2a has improved on it. I didn't say which game was harder or more fun or should be played competitively, because honestly, I don't care and it isn't important, they are all fine.

 

Fuck I posted another opinion.

 

Also, I feel like people are cherrypicking the unimportant things I mention on the offhand and don't focus on the things that I think are important which is one of the main reasons I don't want to post anymore and want to talk about it instead.

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I said that about game mechanics and I still think it's true, and h2a has improved on it. I didn't say which game was harder or more fun or should be played competitively, because honestly, I don't care and it isn't important, they are all fine.

 

Fuck I posted another opinion.

 

Welcome to the internet, where opinions are apparently not welcome. LOL

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I said that about game mechanics and I still think it's true, and h2a has improved on it. I didn't say which game was harder or more fun or should be played competitively, because honestly, I don't care and it isn't important, they are all fine.

 

Fuck I posted another opinion.

 

DUDE WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? USE QUOTES, RESPOND TO QUESTIONS! This has been so confusing.

 

What did you say about game mechanics that you still think is true? Is it even to my post? Believe me man I do not dislike your opinion as much as I dislike how vague you purposely are being.

 

Should I just give up? Ignorance is bliss right?

 

oh come on, did you really just talk about cherry picking after all I've asked and wrote?

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Wrong.

 

Halo CE is more complex than every single console fps aside from shadowrun. That is not arguable, it's just fact.

 

This post proves that pros don't understand game mechanics and design best, especially when they say things like "halo 4 is the best yet," and "asymmetric maps are bad for competitive play."

 

 

 

 

Really? May be true, it may not be. But I can't stand reading shit like this

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DUDE WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? USE QUOTES, RESPOND TO QUESTIONS! This has been so confusing.

 

What did you say about game mechanics that you still think is true? Is it even to my post? Believe me man I do not dislike your opinion as much as I dislike how vague you purposely are being.

 

Should I just give up? Ignorance is bliss right?

 

oh come on, did you really just talk about cherry picking after all I've asked and wrote?

 

He's not responding to you because... it's indescribable.

 

When I said that I would ignore Ryanoob from here on out, I didn't realize it would take more skill than Counter Strike, CE, Shadowrun and Quake combined.

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I said that about game mechanics and I still think it's true, and h2a has improved on it. I didn't say which game was harder or more fun or should be played competitively, because honestly, I don't care and it isn't important, they are all fine.

 

Fuck I posted another opinion.

 

Also, I feel like people are cherrypicking the unimportant things I mention on the offhand and don't focus on the things that I think are important which is one of the main reasons I don't want to post anymore and want to talk about it instead.

dude dont worry I think most people on this forum just know not to bring up any opinions on halo games because if your opinion is not "halo 1 is the best ever no one should play anything else" you get attacked for having an opinion.

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