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If you could change one thing in Halo: CE, what would you?

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Crouching is not even a thing in any other halo. In H1 the chief turns into a hamburger patty

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That's fair enough. Controls are a super subjective thing, and often are non-negotiable. I dislike both Watch_Dogs and GTA V, but recognize that GTA V is the superior product. Even with this mindset, I've never liked the way Rockstar handles character control and locomotion, their characters just feels to slow, laggy, and imprecise to me. As a result,I'd rather play Watch_Dogs even though I think it's worse, as it has some of the best, smoothest on foot controls I've experienced in an open world game.

 

But still, I'm curious. Do you dislike the more "weighty" feel of recent Halo games compared to CE?

I actually agree that Rockstar games movement and controls are slow and laggy as well.

 

I dunno what it is exactly about the halo engine but it just felt amazing from day one. Just has the right feel. Chief feels lighter yes but it feels more graceful in his agility vs sluggish in newer games, like he just has a light touch and control to his movement.

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Newer halo games probably "feel better" because they have things like louder footsteps (more of a subconscious effect but you appear more weighty to yourself", more screen shake when meleeing, and more janky movements when doing things like punching, landing from high falls, reloading, and less floaty gravity. Compared to the more elegant and flowing style of the original trilogy, which I think more competitive players enjoy because it's just more responsive without all the bells and whistles.

 

Halo 2 from any point of view is probably the least neutral feeling movement in regards to gravity, reloading (yy cancel), weapon switching, melee system, but because of that it feels the best to me.

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Newer halo games probably "feel better" because they have things like louder footsteps (more of a subconscious effect but you appear more weighty to yourself", more screen shake when meleeing, and more janky movements when doing things like punching, landing from high falls, reloading, and less floaty gravity. Compared to the more elegant and flowing style of the original trilogy, which I think more competitive players enjoy because it's just more responsive without all the bells and whistles.

 

Halo 2 from any point of view is probably the least neutral feeling movement in regards to gravity, reloading (yy cancel), weapon switching, melee system, but because of that it feels the best to me.

I think you described my feelings very well.

 

Also, I much prefer a solid punching melee vs lunging. Lunging feels awful. And when you watch someone do it it doesn't look right. They teleport up close but the weapon never looks like it extends and hits people. And it was so inconsistent if someone was running away from you especially.

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I think you described my feelings very well.

 

Also, I much prefer a solid punching melee vs lunging. Lunging feels awful. And when you watch someone do it it doesn't look right. They teleport up close but the weapon never looks like it extends and hits people. And it was so inconsistent if someone was running away from you especially.

 

I'm so torn on whether or not I like lunging.

 

On the one hand, lunge really helps enable some insanely clutch plays. although it's not just lunge that enables it though, it's a combination of lunge and the button combos in H2C. They enable you to outpeform people in a way that is simply impossible in the later halo games.

 

Here is a clip I got yesterday, which is a hilarious example of something that would be completely impossible in H3 or later: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FTL%20Gomorrah/video/4268689

 

On the other hand, in most scenarios, lunge makes melee battles inescapable at times, which is bad in my opinion. There is usually no way to avoid someones melees, which means avoiding close range all together, or you are forced to try and "out-melee" them, which is probably one of the host influenced factors in h2c overall. 

 

I am starting to think that lunge should be a special case of melee which is really difficult to do. For instance, maybe your reticle has to be aimed perfectly at your opponent, and your momentum has to be at it's highest point while aimed at them, and you have to press the melee button right at that moment of highest momentum. In order to get your momentum to that highest point, you need to precisely flick the movement stick, sort of like the same way you strafe and keep your momentum high. Under all other circumstances, a melee would have no lunge.

 

I don't know how to describe the idea I have in my mind, but I think it could really be the best of both worlds.

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For coherent online play some lunge is necessary, but H2's is definitely over the top.

 

 

I think H4's melee system is pretty decent as a point of reference.

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As far as movement goes I think that the basic walking movement in Halo 1 feels fantastic - there's this feeling of speed, control, and fluidity that I don't get with other Halo games (they're either too light/floaty or just plain clumsy). But the jumping I could go either way on - I don't hate it, but I wouldn't complain if it was more responsive (keeping the same physics otherwise).

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To be completely fair, part of the reason movement feels fantastic in CE is due more to the high FOV rather than the physics engine itself.

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I'd remove the "fall stun" you get when you land from a certain critical height. Fall damage is already enough of a penalty; the stun is too crippling, unnecessarily impairs player movement and reduces the viability of dropping down for surprise assasinations. This is one of the few differences between Halo: CE and Halo 2 in favor of the latter.

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I'd remove the "fall stun" you get when you land from a certain critical height. Fall damage is already enough of a penalty; the stun is too crippling, unnecessarily impairs player movement and reduces the viability of dropping down for surprise assasinations. This is one of the few differences between Halo: CE and Halo 2 in favor of the latter.

Every situation that is optimally played by jumping down allows you do so without receiving fall stun either because the ledge isnt high enough, you can crouch to negate it, or you can use map geometry to slow your fall. Whether or not the designers implemented fall stun to discourage falling assassination attempts or players just jumping off of things in general i dont know. However, there really isnt a situation where trying to jump down and assassinate someone is the optimal course of action. If it happens to be one of those few situations its not a problem because of the height of the ledge.

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I think Halo 1.5 changes a lot of the things I'd personally change.

 

That being said though the one thing I'd really change is the detention time on plasma grenades. 

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Every situation that is optimally played by jumping down allows you do so without receiving fall stun either because the ledge isnt high enough, you can crouch to negate it, or you can use map geometry to slow your fall. Whether or not the designers implemented fall stun to discourage falling assassination attempts or players just jumping off of things in general i dont know. However, there really isnt a situation where trying to jump down and assassinate someone is the optimal course of action. If it happens to be one of those few situations its not a problem because of the height of the ledge.

 

Even dropping off Rocket Arch on Battle Creek triggers the fall stun so it doesn't take much, and having to crouch upon landing still slows you down which I don't particularly like. The main gripe I have is that both fall damage and fall stun are in the one game. One or the other is ok, but both has always felt overkill to me. I tend to appreciate the less restricted movement in Halo 2 as it gives the player more options and more clutch plays can happen. IMO, that generally trumps any small pros that the CE system has regarding map interaction.

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Even dropping off Rocket Arch on Battle Creek triggers the fall stun so it doesn't take much, and having to crouch upon landing still slows you down which I don't particularly like. The main gripe I have is that both fall damage and fall stun are in the one game. One or the other is ok, but both has always felt overkill to me. I tend to appreciate the less restricted movement in Halo 2 as it gives the player more options and more clutch plays can happen. IMO, that generally trumps any small pros that the CE system has regarding map interaction.

http://imgur.com/oCTtmN0

xboxdvr.com/cujjer/f36e4520-8e99-4ff5-932e-c7db03b066db

xboxdvr.com/cujjer/1201513a-3b40-4e68-897d-31058fc9503f

 

You are going to have to start giving situational examples of the benefits of removing it, you have already established your opinion and all but the BC arch is just rehashing your original post. 

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I'd make pistol rounds visible like the BR is

 

There's basically no way to figure out the weapon is not hitscan unless someone tells you, and even then I'm still not 100% sure what the velocity is like

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http://imgur.com/oCTtmN0

xboxdvr.com/cujjer/f36e4520-8e99-4ff5-932e-c7db03b066db

xboxdvr.com/cujjer/1201513a-3b40-4e68-897d-31058fc9503f

 

You are going to have to start giving situational examples of the benefits of removing it, you have already established your opinion and all but the BC arch is just rehashing your original post. 

 

The benefit in Halo: CE itself is admittedly only subtle and the argument is more of a general one than one based on specific scenarios. The mechanic isn't game-breaking in the slightest, but I just see the mechanic as a minor annoyance and a hindrance to responsive player movement (much like jump delay) that crops up every so often in games. The main problem arises when you would like to perform a jump (not just drop) off a high point in an arbitrary direction in order to get a better angle of a moving opponent or one who's behind cover. I see no reason to discourage that further than what FD already does.

 

It's not a feature I ever miss when playing any of the later Halo's and I can't see how removing it from CE would be bad for it.

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I'd make pistol rounds visible like the BR is

 

There's basically no way to figure out the weapon is not hitscan unless someone tells you, and even then I'm still not 100% sure what the velocity is like

 

The Pistol doesn't need tracers. You pretty much figure out it isn't hitscan while playing maps like Hang 'Em. You can find out the velocity easily in Halo PC Custom Edition.

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Obviously a lot of you think Halo: Combat Evolved is the superior Halo, so I'm interested to see what you guys would change if anything.

 

Campaign or Multiplayer - lemme hear you.

 

Anything that needed to be changed was already done in the halo 1.5 LAN edition. :)

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The benefit in Halo: CE itself is admittedly only subtle and the argument is more of a general one than one based on specific scenarios. The mechanic isn't game-breaking in the slightest, but I just see the mechanic as a minor annoyance and a hindrance to responsive player movement (much like jump delay) that crops up every so often in games. The main problem arises when you would like to perform a jump (not just drop) off a high point in an arbitrary direction in order to get a better angle of a moving opponent or one who's behind cover. I see no reason to discourage that further than what FD already does.

 

It's not a feature I ever miss when playing any of the later Halo's and I can't see how removing it from CE would be bad for it.

 

If its such a general annoyance than surely you should be able to outline some examples, or are you not intending to back up this claim you made?

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If its such a general annoyance than surely you should be able to outline some examples, or are you not intending to back up this claim you made?

 

I've already made it clear numerous times why it's undesirable. Specific examples aren't even the point because literally whenever it happens, it's an annoyance. Whenever it does happen, it would have been better if it didn't. Whenever you land in Halo CE, you should either take damage or not take damage, nothing else. This is exactly like jump delay. Jump delay is always bad, it shouldn't exist, period. There's no one special time when jump delay is bad, it's inherently bad.

 

Anything that needed to be changed was already done in the halo 1.5 LAN edition. :)

 

1.5 didn't change game globals like movement acceleration (which needs increasing) and things like jump delay and pistol spread still exist. Personally, I don't really like the sound removals either since you can mitigate that issue by wearing headphones. 1.5 certainly isn't the be-all and end-all of Halo 1, the main good thing about it is the awesome new maps like Imminent (I really love that map).

 

Halo PC is sorely neglected, and is actually technically the best way to play Halo 1 overall. M+K is the only way to play an unadulterated shooter where the outcomes in the game are solely the result of player inputs, with no auto-aim, magnetism etc. I've made a "promod" for the PC which removes all non-competitive aspects from the weapons such as spread, aim assist etc, increases strafe acceleration, crouching movement speed, FOV and so on. Once you experience an idealized Halo environment such as that, it's very difficult to go back.

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I've already made it clear numerous times why it's undesirable. Specific examples aren't even the point because literally whenever it happens, it's an annoyance. Whenever it does happen, it would have been better if it didn't. Whenever you land in Halo CE, you should either take damage or not take damage, nothing else. This is exactly like jump delay. Jump delay is always bad, it shouldn't exist, period. There's no one special time when jump delay is bad, it's inherently bad.

 

You have only made it clear that you don't like the mechanic, the rest of what you have said is vague and subjective. Lets focus on this sentence here:

 

"Whenever it does happen, it would have been better if it didn't."

 

I am wanting to know what is gained from removing it, because it is not self evident. This is a good discussion because i really am not convinced i would keep it in the game given the choice to remove it. I just think it shouldnt be removed lightly. Convince me its bad.

 

 

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I've already made it clear numerous times why it's undesirable. Specific examples aren't even the point because literally whenever it happens, it's an annoyance. Whenever it does happen, it would have been better if it didn't. Whenever you land in Halo CE, you should either take damage or not take damage, nothing else. This is exactly like jump delay. Jump delay is always bad, it shouldn't exist, period. There's no one special time when jump delay is bad, it's inherently bad.

 

 

1.5 didn't change game globals like movement acceleration (which needs increasing) and things like jump delay and pistol spread still exist. Personally, I don't really like the sound removals either since you can mitigate that issue by wearing headphones. 1.5 certainly isn't the be-all and end-all of Halo 1, the main good thing about it is the awesome new maps like Imminent (I really love that map).

 

Halo PC is sorely neglected, and is actually technically the best way to play Halo 1 overall. M+K is the only way to play an unadulterated shooter where the outcomes in the game are solely the result of player inputs, with no auto-aim, magnetism etc. I've made a "promod" for the PC which removes all non-competitive aspects from the weapons such as spread, aim assist etc, increases strafe acceleration, crouching movement speed, FOV and so on. Once you experience an idealized Halo environment such as that, it's very difficult to go back.

If you are looking to play PC FPS games with competitive merit in mind then why play Halo PC over games like Unreal Tournament, Quake, Toxikk, Reflex, or CS:GO? Surely those games can offer a more ideal competitive experience than your idealized and heavily modified Halo PC environment.

 

Since I'm a console peasant that prefers using a controller over M+K I rather play Halo CE on the OG xbox than a heavily modified Halo PC port. IMO since Halo CE was made for consoles/controllers in mind and the meta of the game revolves around playing 2v2, I think the most ideal way to play the game is lanning it on the OG xbox and playing split screen. IMO being able to see your teammates POV is very crucial and playing on lan with no lag is also important.

 

I see no reason for console players to go out their way to try to find people to play Halo PC with because Halo 1.5 and Halo 1 final offers a ideal way to lan the game on the OG xbox. Also I rather play the horrible MCC port of Halo CE over Halo PC because it's more convenient for me to do so and I have somewhat of a community to play the game with.

 

Also no offense to the Halo PC community, I don't want to generalize all of you but there's a group of people within your community that I can't stand. The people within the Halo PC community that I can't stand are the ones with a elitist/arrogant attitude. You know the people that have this weird elitist mentality that don't like using power-ups and rockets because they are for "noobs" and they like to criticize the Halo 1 console community for using them and call them noobs. Halo CE's flow revolves around constantly challenging your opponent for control of the power items so criticizing us for playing the game the way it should be played makes you come off as being ignorant. I can't count on hand of how many Halo PC players I ran into playing Halo 1 on the MCC that complained about people timing and using rockets and called them "noobs" for doing so.

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If you are looking to play PC FPS games with competitive merit in mind then why play Halo PC over games like Unreal Tournament, Quake, Toxikk, Reflex, or CS:GO? Surely those games can offer a more ideal competitive experience than your idealized and heavily modified Halo PC environment.

 

Because a modified Halo PC, I find, is actually just as competitive as those other titles while at the same time being more fun. That's why I've always liked Halo: CE, the combination of skill and fun. Modifying it has made it even more skillful and fun, because when you go from the Xbox version to vanilla PC, you instantly realise there are many things that don't translate well into a PC environment. The Xbox version is perfect for the platform it's on and I'm more than happy to play the base game without any mods whatsoever and I still have a blast when I do. PC is a different story and requires mods to be playable. When you do mod it though, I definitely feel it surpasses the Xbox version.

 

The reason for that is because the fundamental elements of the genre get improved. Having zero aim assist mechanisms of any kind is an absolute blessing and when coupled with no spread weapons and customized crosshairs, you get the ideal point and shoot gameplay.

 

http://i.imgur.com/mCkSDAi.png Removes HUD clutter, timer + score, health and shield shown as percentage for better accuracy, single-pixel crosshair for highest precision. Forgive the somewhat dodgey graphics, was rendered on the 10-year old PC I'm using to type this, with no AA, a crap resolution, etc.

 

Since I'm a console peasant that prefers using a controller over M+K I rather play Halo CE on the OG xbox than a heavily modified Halo PC port. IMO since Halo CE was made for consoles/controllers in mind and the meta of the game revolves around playing 2v2, I think the most ideal way to play the game is lanning it on the OG xbox and playing split screen. IMO being able to see your teammates POV is very crucial and playing on lan with no lag is also important.

 

 

While Halo was obviously designed for the Xbox, Shooters in general were designed for the PC, so it's still the optimum platform for games of that genre to be played on regardless of which one they were originally released for. The meta for the PC is still 2v2, nothing has changed there, and it's also meant to be played over LAN too. The team mate POV thing isn't too big of a deal because generally you're going to be sitting right next to them anyway (which is also what happens at pro xbox events ever since halo 2) but if you really want to take it further, you can make use of a sight-jacking mod to be able to switch to your team mate's POV.

 

I see no reason for console players to go out their way to try to find people to play Halo PC with because Halo 1.5 and Halo 1 final offers a ideal way to lan the game on the OG xbox. Also I rather play the horrible MCC port of Halo CE over Halo PC because it's more convenient for me to do so and I have somewhat of a community to play the game with.

 

 

If anything, the PC version is more accesible, because virtually everyone has either a PC or a laptop and you can download the PC version for free. Additionally, Halo PC has all the tools you need to basically be able to turn it into anything you want, which is why I'm still annoyed that it hasn't really caught on in the Halo community at large yet.

 

Also no offense to the Halo PC community, I don't want to generalize all of you but there's a group of people within your community that I can't stand. The people within the Halo PC community that I can't stand are the ones with a elitist/arrogant attitude. You know the people that have this weird elitist mentality that don't like using power-ups and rockets because they are for "noobs" and they like to criticize the Halo 1 console community for using them and call them noobs. Halo CE's flow revolves around constantly challenging your opponent for control of the power items so criticizing us for playing the game the way it should be played makes you come off as being ignorant. I can't count on hand of how many Halo PC players I ran into playing Halo 1 on the MCC that complained about people timing and using rockets and called them "noobs" for doing so.

 

All communities have weirdos like that, but I haven't seen that many of them in the PC community to be honest. Certainly none of them will be concerning themselves with the competitive side of the game, so they won't be relevant to you anyway.

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You have only made it clear that you don't like the mechanic, the rest of what you have said is vague and subjective. Lets focus on this sentence here:

 

"Whenever it does happen, it would have been better if it didn't."

 

I am wanting to know what is gained from removing it, because it is not self evident. This is a good discussion because i really am not convinced i would keep it in the game given the choice to remove it. I just think it shouldnt be removed lightly. Convince me its bad.

 

The thing is, it is self-evident. If you've played any Halo after CE, you should know first-hand what happens when you remove fall stun. Players are more free to traverse the map as they see fit during an engagement, rather than being forced to conform to map geometry. It's as simple as that really. The result is smoother gameplay during a firefight, because you don't need to worry about being a sitting duck for nearly a whole second after jumping off something.

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The thing is, it is self-evident. If you've played any Halo after CE, you should know first-hand what happens when you remove fall stun. Players are more free to traverse the map as they see fit during an engagement, rather than being forced to conform to map geometry. It's as simple as that really. The result is smoother gameplay during a firefight, because you don't need to worry about being a sitting duck for nearly a whole second after jumping off something.

 

It results in removing the skill that used to be required to succesfully fall from key locations and utilize map geometry and well timed crouches to avoid getting stuck like that.

 

Here's an example of what you lose when we you remove it:

 

  1. With stun: A bad player ports from red on damnation up to the catwalk with his fresh OS. I, standing on green plat, strafe like a maniac juking all his shots while hitting all of mine. As his health drops he knows  he must work to get away before he dies. So he drops to shotties. Because he is a BK he gets fall stunned and i can succesfully get an angle to finish him off.
  2. Without stun: The bad player enters the same situation, gets outshot then drops to shotties and can make it to red door despite getting completely outplayed because i dont have the window that i used to.

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