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Mykul Man

Halo 1 is the Golden Standard, not Halo 2

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How can a pistol kill faster than a rifle? Makes no sense. Plus the CE pistol was a mistake. Jim Jones changed it at the last minute without permission.

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it took you long enough, but welcome to :beyond:

 

anyways as much as I want to bash halo 2 (I have stated previously that I think it was the worst halo in terms of influence) for you to put halo 4 as the 3rd best halo game to date is just laughable to say the least, their is more to a game than just one fucking weapon and even if halo CE used a pink dildo in place of its pistol it still probably would have been better than halo 4, so I think your being a little bit extreme when you bash 2/3 then put 4 or even reach (v7 wasn't the only gametype in reach folks) above them and in my opinion is just outrageous.

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Like I said in the OP, it's not about any specific weapon. It's about having a utility weapon or set of utility weapons that can level the playing field. Reskin the Pistol with the DMR and voila! Problem solved.

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it took you long enough, but welcome to :beyond:

 

anyways as much as I want to bash halo 2 (I have stated previously that I think it was the worst halo in terms of influence) for you to put halo 4 as the 3rd best halo game to date is just laughable to say the least, their is more to a game than just one fucking weapon and even if halo CE used a pink dildo in place of its pistol it still probably would have been better than halo 4, so I think your being a little bit extreme when you bash 2/3 then put 4 or even reach (v7 wasn't the only gametype in reach folks) above them and in my opinion is just outrageous.

Thanks for the welcome.

 

I put Halo 4 ahead of Halo 2 and 3 because it has weapons that I can trust. If the weapon set of a game has only 1 available utility weapon like Halo 2, then the playability of the game is, indeed, down to one weapon. The map selection in Halo 2 is unrivaled, but it's like playing in a construction zone with a plastic, broken shovel(BR) vs. getting some satisfying work done with a heavy duty excavator(H1 Pistol) or ajackhammer(H4/Reach ZB DMR).

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In my humble opinion, there's more to making a great game than having a utility weapon or whatever your argument is. The games go much, much deeper than that. Spawn (weapon and player) mechanics, gunplay, map movement, map design, etc etc.

Reach, once again imo, had good gunplay (NB) but the maps were god awful. Halo 4's maps were god awful as well. I don't care if you gave me a H1 pistol on those maps... the game would still play like horse shit. 

That's why you'll get beef by putting H4 ahead of Halo 2 and Halo 3. It's not as black and white as pistol > h4 BR > h3 BR or whatever the shit.

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I like you.

 

Halo 3 was my first halo, but I still think I can agree with most of what you said! Reach was crap when it shipped, but NBNS was GREAT! In addition, I think Halo 4 was better than Reach ON DAY ONE. The hate halo 4 got I feel really came from frustrated reach fans on their last straw. 

 

I enjoyed reading this thread and think you have some valuable input for the community! 

 

Welcome.

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While I completely agree with this I'm a firm believer of "different strokes for different folks."  I think I said that on the reddit post somewhere too.

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How can a pistol kill faster than a rifle? Makes no sense. Plus the CE pistol was a mistake. Jim Jones changed it at the last minute without permission.

*Jason Jones...lol

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1 second kill time, takes skill to kill use. Three shot kill.

IIRC its 0.6 second killtime, just thought I would correct you.

 

Jason Jones is a 343i dev, Jim Jones is the one behind the Jonestown massacre I think.

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Me, being a complete and exclusive halo 1 guy, can still readily admit that H2 and H3 were AMAZING competitive FPS titles and I could prob make an argument that they were better competitive FPS titles. Only because once you reach the top tier of H1 play, the host advantage can be difficult to overcome. And it becomes even more significant once its 4v4. 

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Me, being a complete and exclusive halo 1 guy, can still readily admit that H2 and H3 were AMAZING competitive FPS titles and I could prob make an argument that they were better competitive FPS titles. Only because once you reach the top tier of H1 play, the host advantage can be difficult to overcome. And it becomes even more significant once its 4v4. 

nah see your wrong because magnum.

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In my humble opinion, there's more to making a great game than having a utility weapon or whatever your argument is. The games go much, much deeper than that. Spawn (weapon and player) mechanics, gunplay, map movement, map design, etc etc.

Reach, once again imo, had good gunplay (NB) but the maps were god awful. Halo 4's maps were god awful as well. I don't care if you gave me a H1 pistol on those maps... the game would still play like horse shit.

That's why you'll get beef by putting H4 ahead of Halo 2 and Halo 3. It's not as black and white as pistol > h4 BR > h3 BR or whatever the shit.

I'm not saying that gunplay is the only factor in a first person shooter, I'm saying it's the glue that GUNPLAY is the glue thatvholds a SHOOTER together. If you gave me a Halo 1 pistol to play with in Halo 4 I'd give you a nice sum of money. While the mechanics of the game are not black and white, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't make an attempt to understand the inner workings of the "magic" behind the success of the Halo formula. Understanding the psychology of what makes something rewarding is not an exact science, but it can be done to a beneficial extent. That's how sustainable progress is made.
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Me, being a complete and exclusive halo 1 guy, can still readily admit that H2 and H3 were AMAZING competitive FPS titles and I could prob make an argument that they were better competitive FPS titles. Only because once you reach the top tier of H1 play, the host advantage can be difficult to overcome. And it becomes even more significant once its 4v4. 

And in one post all respect for you was lost

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Except all top players who competed in all titles agree with me

and that makes you validating broken games competitive value not silly because?

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I agree 100% with the 3-4 shot kill DMR.

 

It's my belief from reading umpteenth posts on here from Halo 1 players (ChaosTheory that's you) that the best thing for Halo is a 3sk weapon.

 

Not a good player, but a great player should be able to kill multiple opponents without an issue. In Halo 3 this was difficult, as you would out-BR someone yet you'd still have no shields at the end of it, and someone scrub would one shot you. This is frustrating as you are rewarded with your skillful shots (well, as skillful as Halo 3 BR can get) with a death at the hands of some scrub. You've used your two frags, you're out of options.

 

In Halo 1 (and to a degree Halo 2, though only because of a doubleshot glitch) you can dump on people. You can crush someone with three shots before they even hit you once. You can take out an entire enemy team, if you're good enough (and they're bad enough) by yourself even if they know where you are. The short powerup and weapon timers promoted fast paced, no-camping gameplay and the pistol with it's glorious skillgap promoted shooting with skill and people who panic shoot get crushed completely.

 

Halo 1's maps were also all fantastic for the pistol, a mix of 3D vertical design (something that lacks from EVERY other shooter on console) and size made the game extremely fun. I agree with 99% of the things that Halo 1 fanboys say, the only exception being that Halo 2 is the best BTB game ever made. Halo 2's BTB is glorious.

 

TLDR: Halo 1's pistol had a High AVERAGE kill time, but an extremely low OPTIMAL kill time, which makes it the god weapon. Halo 2/3/4 all have high optimal AND average kill times, promoting teamshooting as a replacement for individual skill, instead of a compliment to individual skill.

 

Let's start a new trend #3skforGuardians.

you made a far better case than the OP did sadly, anyway as much as I prefer single-shot surely you don't believe that getting rid of something like the BR is a smart thing to do right? I mean I hate to say this but overwhelmingly halo players prefer the BR over the DMR (and also the magnum) and so to me just going with a 3sk DMR is just asking for a separation within the community and possibly even a certain percentage leaving and going elsewhere, I just think that something like a BR (unscoped) and a DMR (scoped) would be a good solution that would please the majority of the fanbase, that's all.

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I've played almost no H:CE, and very little H2, but I'm stunned that you put H4 and Reach before H2 and H3. You haven't convinced me. There's more to it than just a fast killing utility weapon. 

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In my humble opinion, there's more to making a great game than having a utility weapon or whatever your argument is. The games go much, much deeper than that. Spawn (weapon and player) mechanics, gunplay, map movement, map design, etc etc.

 

Reach, once again imo, had good gunplay (NB) but the maps were god awful. Halo 4's maps were god awful as well. I don't care if you gave me a H1 pistol on those maps... the game would still play like horse shit. 

 

That's why you'll get beef by putting H4 ahead of Halo 2 and Halo 3. It's not as black and white as pistol > h4 BR > h3 BR or whatever the shit.

 

Having great maps, spawns, and mechanics but a shitty starting weapon is like having a really sweet car with no wheels.  Pistol is what made Halo 1 great at its core, among many other mechanics.

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I've played almost no H:CE, and very little H2, but I'm stunned that you put H4 and Reach before H2 and H3. You haven't convinced me. There's more to it than just a fast killing utility weapon. 

you just don't understand, magnum.

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and that makes you validating broken games competitive value not silly because?

How doesn't it? From a competitve, team aspect, H2 and H3 were great, great games. The best TEAMS generally won. A single person COULDNT rise above and carry them to victory, generally. In no way does that make them broken. It lowers individualism and, to a degree, a players "skill" but it just showcases other skills. And like I said, only minimal host advantage.

 

What is wrong with those games from a competitive standpoint? Each start with the same weapon, power ups on timers (making you push the pace and promotes activity), relatively good competitive maps, the best players (and in turn, teams) still won all the time and a lot of nuances and glitches and tricks to master

 

I think H1 is better, way better, but that doesn't demean those games. Just shows how good H1 is.

 

But if we are talking from a competitve POV, with money on the line, most would agree that playing a game that promotes teamwork and skill AND HAS NO HOST ADVANTAGE against a game that is individual skill sprinkled with teamwork and SIGNIFICANT HOST ADVANTAGE, they are picking the non-host advantage game.

 

But maybe me and the rest of the top players are wrong.

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Pats right, IDK why anyone would consider him a VIP but he's right.  Neutral host H1 will ideally be the end of this discussion though.

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