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Calvarok

What elements from classic arena shooters should Halo 5 adopt?

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title pretty much says it all.  I personally hope that Thruster is used to emulate some of the superfast mobility, but as a recharging limited resource rather than a base state of movement.

 

I'm looking for specific examples of desirable gameplay or features that existed in classic arena shooters but not in any previous Halo games.

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Basically everything.  If you really want to make a game where the most skilled wins, just take everything about old school arena shooters and imply it to H5.  

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I'd rather have a higher base movement speed than what would basically be another sprint.

but Halo isn't about having a base movement speed that's literally as fast as quake.  sure, it needs to be more sped up, but I don't think people want it to play like that.  would be different from sprint in that you could use it mid-air, and that it carries the player in a given direction for a fixed amount of time, rather than being able to cancel out of it or adjust direction like with sprint.  also the player's aiming ability wouldn't be affected (all of this is in my ideal made-up implementation, obvs)

@@Artaneius

 

I appreciate that many parts of old-school arena shooters are desirable, but I'm more looking for specific examples of gameplay or features that existed in them but not in any previous Halo games.

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Fast kill times - Low aim magnetism

Slow kill times - High aim magnetism

 

Make the primary a fast kill time precision weapon, similar to the ce pistol.

 

No sprint, no armor abilities, and no power weapons/ups on power positions.

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A PC release.

curious, would a PC release of Halo make buying a microsoft console less appealing to you?  or would you buy and play both versions of the game?

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curious, would a PC release of Halo make buying a microsoft console less appealing to you?  or would you buy and play both versions of the game?

I bought a 360 to experience Halo 3, but that was before I had a computer that could actually run modern games well.

I have a good amount of friends who play on PC now, and I just go where the people to play with go.

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I bought a 360 to experience Halo 3, but that was before I had a computer that could actually run modern games well.

I have a good amount of friends who play on PC now, and I just go where the people to play with go.

on the one hand, I do think microsoft would do well appealing more to people who might want to play their games but are on PC, since it's a huge install base.  on the other hand, having people who are within the xbox console ecosystem is a lot more valuable in the long run on a per-user basis, because that means that any other games they buy for that platform, any other services and apps they use, all of those profit MS.

 

So I think the best compromise would be to focus on getting each Halo game done, then begin development on a port. that way their full attention is on making it a showcase for the xbox, and then taking the time to put out a good, well-optimized port.  which means PC end-users will be happy (since so rarely are their versions of games given the time they deserve), and Xbox owners benefit from being in that ecosystem by getting a similarly focused product and getting it early.

 

Developing both versions in tandem probably wouldn't be good for anyone, especially MS.

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Mouse and keyboard control, air control, clear graphics, rocket jumping, and difficulty.

 

curious, would a PC release of Halo make buying a microsoft console less appealing to you?  or would you buy and play both versions of the game?

 

I'm not even buying an Xbox 3 if it's exclusively for it as long as it doesn't support mkb control. Gamepads are broken.

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A sandbox where every single weapon* has a competitive purpose would be nice.

 

 

 

 

*even the Needler

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Mouse and keyboard control, air control, clear graphics, rocket jumping, and difficulty.

 

 

I'm not even buying an Xbox 3 if it's exclusively for it as long as it doesn't support mkb control. Gamepads are broken.

you wouldn't be interested in a better and more accurate design of gamepad?  because it makes no sense to offer a more accurate way of playing while not updating the other way, better served to just keep things down to one control input but improve that one significantly.  disagree that gamepads are broken but agree they aren't 1:1 comparable.  which they don't need to be, if they're the only input available.

 

A sandbox where every single weapon* has a competitive purpose would be nice.

 

 

 

 

*even the Needler

I definitely agree with this.  not a fan of the "throwaway" or "lower tier" weapons that have existed in some form in each Halo game.  Ideally an AR v BR duel should not so often result in the same outcome of BR>AR at most ranges. weapons can be different and better at certain things than others, but skill should heavily weight chances of success in any situation with any weapon.

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you wouldn't be interested in a better and more accurate design of gamepad?

 

I'd like something like a gamepad where you use your entire arm, wrist and hand for the aim input. AKA a mouse. Mice are "a better and more accurate design of gamepads".

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Weapons that can control space in interesting ways.

 

Watch some Quake or UT and then watch Halo. You'll notice that Halo doesn't have as much placement of explosives and weapons with wide hitboxes to control space. Halo 1's grenades do come somewhat close, though.

 

I've always said that Halo's weapons fall nicely into utility weapons, niche weapons, and power weapons. I feel that more of Halo's niche weapons should be designed to control space in interesting ways. Follow in the footsteps of weapons like the Pro Pipe or something that makes sense for Halo (aka, compliment the utility weapons instead of overpowering them or replacing them).

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I'd like something like a gamepad where you use your entire arm, wrist and hand for the aim input. AKA a mouse. Mice are "a better and more accurate design of gamepads".

they're a more accurate design of a single modern thumbstick and two triggers, a fraction of what's on a gamepad.  a keyboard is a less intuitive design of everything else on a gamepad but with more inputs.

 

both setups have limitations, and if people just ignore that and proclaim their setup of choice to be the absolute best things can be, nothing will move forward.

 

Valve's steambox controller shows that there's still new things to experiment with, and ways to bridge the pros of the two different types of inputs.

 

but regardless, games that are designed to account for the strengths and limitations of whatever their method of control is will continue to work fine.

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i dont think there has been a mode where you can't damage yourself, but others can damage you, in any halo game, at least not in matchmaking.

 

 

 

also add the custom game option to hold more than 2(3) weapons.

 

add the option to make powerups/weapons static or dynamic

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A red armor/yellow armor dynamic with powerups. I.e. a "strong" OS and a "weak" OS. A "strong" (longer-lasting, quick camo enabled) camo, and a "weak" (Halo 3-Reach standard) camo. And so on. And I wouldn't mind UT's jump boots mechanic making an appearance.

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Overall, a faster base movement speed(slightly quicker than H2) so we dont need sprint and strafing is more effective and a wider variety of weapons than hitscan weaponry in comp play. Also more items on the map in dynamic/vulnerable positions like H1 so people cant just "hold-top mid" and camp with the snipe/rockets and destroy the other team.

 

I dont know why it has been so hard to replicate these essential Arena shooter elements in Halo MP the last few titles(got most of them right the first time+second time to an extent), they have done nothing but destroy them and that is why the game is at its dullest and least attractive state game-play and population wise its ever been.

 

The absolutely ******** perception of DM shooters from modern day shooter players being about unrealistic looking dudes mindlessly bunny-hopping around with huge guns, putting 100's of bullets into each other before one of them drops dead is partly to blame. Those are the scrubs getting neg 1 kill and shit in ranked MM I imagine IMO.

 

Arena shooters are complex games that reward precision and decision making over spray and pray, prioritization of items/enemies(depending on prediction of health) and power positions, intelligent movement depending on current player health and enemy status/movement, creativity though physics and movement, and have delicate glass-like balance in flow and Sandbox that can be easily broken by those who dont respect or understand the complex fine-oiled machine they are dealing with. Its not out of line to say, some key 343 MP devs on H4 did not understand or respect the multi-layered machine of Halo MP the first time-around.

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Sandbox that can be easily broken by those who dont respect or understand the complex fine-oiled machine they are dealing with.

Claptrap_damaged.png

 

"Oh my God, I'm leaking! I think I'm leaking! Ahhhh, I'm leaking! There's oil everywhere!"

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@@Hitman, i don't think it's a case of it being hard to replicate, I just think replicating that exactly was not their goal.

 

As their first official game, they played it kinda safe, starting from the foundation of Reach and using where it was going as inspiration, while also walking back some of the things people disliked about it.  It wasn't really a bold stance to take (and I suspect they might have been more ambitious if development hadn't been so troubled)

 

I would expect Halo 5 to be a far more drastic shift than before going off statements of an entirely new engine (which means re-coding everything anyways) and frank's public acknowledgement that they want to go in a more balanced, less (gameplay) reward/customization-driven direction for multiplayer.

 

I also know that many people at 343 love arena shooters, which is part of why I made this topic.  if anything were to be cribbed from those games, now would be one of the most likely times. (though if they're gonna they've likely made up their minds about what they'll take)

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they're a more accurate design of a single modern thumbstick and two triggers, a fraction of what's on a gamepad.  a keyboard is a less intuitive design of everything else on a gamepad but with more inputs.

 

both setups have limitations, and if people just ignore that and proclaim their setup of choice to be the absolute best things can be, nothing will move forward.

 

Valve's steambox controller shows that there's still new things to experiment with, and ways to bridge the pros of the two different types of inputs.

 

but regardless, games that are designed to account for the strengths and limitations of whatever their method of control is will continue to work fine.

 

I'm done.

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Faster Melee Kills

do you mean simply increasing the melee damage of the current system, or a new melee system that rewards some sort of skill-based use of new mechanics with more damage?

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do you mean simply increasing the melee damage of the current system, or a new melee system that rewards some sort of skill-based use of new mechanics with more damage?

The first

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