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UGC Halo League Show - Week 3 [Special Guest chaosTheoryy]

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In the middle of watching, but I  had to stop and comment on something before I forgot. The part where Chaos Theory mentions creativity of the player being good in the game is very interesting I think. I have always thought that the more simple games are, the more creativity they promote and require. All sports are pretty simple overall, and they all require and promote large amounts of creativity. That's why you see professionals in soccer and basketball doing mind blowing moves and tricks all within their sport's rules. I have always thought that that is what made Halo shine above the rest of the FPS games. It always just seemed very simple and therefore promoted massive creativity. Same goes for Smash, very simple game that required creativity. That made them fun to play and watch IMO.

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I loved listening to this- my only criticism is that I wish it was longer. I could listen to a Halo discussion show for hours, and people like Chaos Theory and Ghandi are the right type of people to carry on such a discussion. I would love to see more special guests with tons of Halo knowledge, like cT, brought on in the future to stimulate more deep discussion. This week's show was the best one yet, keep it up UGC!

 

I'd also love to read your work in progress, cT.

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All sports are pretty simple overall, and they all require and promote large amounts of creativity. That's why you see professionals in soccer and basketball doing mind blowing moves and tricks all within their sport's rules. I have always thought that that is what made Halo shine above the rest of the FPS games.

To add to this, the more 'creativity' that is allowed to foster in a game, the more the meta is allowed to change over time. Even though people that have been playing XBC halo 2 since 2009 will be competing (probably) at UGC St Louis, you won't see strategies being ran that are very different than the ones we saw at mlg 2007 because Halo 2 doesn't allow for much creativity to foster. However, if a Halo 1 tournament were to be ran with people that have been playing for the past decade, you would see very different strategies than the ones being used at MLG 2003-2004.

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Watching the VoD, I'll edit as I come up with stuff to say.

 

 

 

Early on, the bit about randomness:

As cT said, randomness is fine when you're playing vs the computer. The reason for this, is that we are not yet at a point where AI is advanced enough to implement their own randomness.

 

Essentially, the thing replacing random mechanics in a PvP environment is... the other players. That's what makes PvP fun, you're trying to figure out what the other players are going to do, and how you should counter their actions.The next point he brings up here is that of matchmaking, and that kobe bryant vs the random kid around the corner isn't a fun experience for anyone. That ties in wonderfully to the randomness introduced by playing against other people- if your opponent is too predictable and too easy, the 'random' factor has gone down and thereby so has the challenge.

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is this the guy who knows every fking shit about how to forge a good map?

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I've always been a big fan of cT, or fanboy if you will.

 

I'm 22 minutes in and am just amazed by this podcast. This is literally what I've been looking for forever. I've been waiting for a podcast that will break down halo to a science, and does so in such an easy to understand way. AMAZING AMAZING AMAZING WORK! It's great to see someone who has deserved exposure for practically a decade get some of the spot light.

 

 

 

balance

"a player always has a chance, no matter the situation to overcome a disadvantage"

"as a whole, the better player is rewarded for things he does right"

 

@@chaosTheory - this is one of the reasons I continuously push Shadowrun and Monday Night Combat to players. The balance in these two games are so perfect that I only consider Halo CE to be better than these games. I know there's differences of opinion in terms of game preference, but there are a lot of things you talk about in the podcast where you say there really haven't been games since Halo 1 that uses these ideas that I disagree with just because of these two games alone, but agree with you as a whole.

 

 

Just finished. I'll add another amazing to my post. Best part of the show was finding out theres a future podcast?

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is this the guy who knows every fking shit about how to forge a good map?

Negative. Let me play on it a few times, let me know where the power weapons and powerups spawn and I can probably give you a pretty good idea of whether or not it will work well, but I have spent very little time forging my own maps. I always felt it was a little too much work for too little control.

 

Also, Champloo is dead on about the PvP randomness thing. I just didn't get time to fully explain everything the way I would have liked to. I was also sitting in my car with zero points of reference to look at.

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Accidental neg, sorry.

 

There really should be an option to change rep ratings you give on this site, for mobile users at least.

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I've always been a big fan of cT, or fanboy if you will.

 

I'm 22 minutes in and am just amazed by this podcast. This is literally what I've been looking for forever. I've been waiting for a podcast that will break down halo to a science, and does so in such an easy to understand way. AMAZING AMAZING AMAZING WORK! It's great to see someone who has deserved exposure for practically a decade get some of the spot light.

 

 

 

balance

"a player always has a chance, no matter the situation to overcome a disadvantage"

"as a whole, the better player is rewarded for things he does right"

 

@@chaosTheory - this is one of the reasons I continuously push Shadowrun and Monday Night Combat to players. The balance in these two games are so perfect that I only consider Halo CE to be better than these games. I know there's differences of opinion in terms of game preference, but there are a lot of things you talk about in the podcast where you say there really haven't been games since Halo 1 that uses these ideas that I disagree with just because of these two games alone, but agree with you as a whole.

 

 

Just finished. I'll add another amazing to my post. Best part of the show was finding out theres a future podcast?

 

Whoops yea SR was a great game. I specifically didn't play it because I heard it was great from people I trusted. I didn't need another game to get obsessed with. I'm sure SR is fantastic based on what I'm told from people that I have a lot of faith in. I should have mentioned it on the show but it slipped my mind.

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I think an interesting aspect of Halo CE for MCC on xbox live will be the time limits, I wonder what 343 will set the time at and if they will add a countdown on the HUD.  What do you think will happen?

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In the middle of watching, but I  had to stop and comment on something before I forgot. The part where Chaos Theory mentions creativity of the player being good in the game is very interesting I think. I have always thought that the more simple games are, the more creativity they promote and require. All sports are pretty simple overall, and they all require and promote large amounts of creativity. That's why you see professionals in soccer and basketball doing mind blowing moves and tricks all within their sport's rules. I have always thought that that is what made Halo shine above the rest of the FPS games. It always just seemed very simple and therefore promoted massive creativity. Same goes for Smash, very simple game that required creativity. That made them fun to play and watch IMO.

 

Smash is simple? I literally have absolutely no clue what's going on in that game any time I watch it. I've no idea what's happening on my screen but it is entertaining.

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I think an interesting aspect of Halo CE for MCC on xbox live will be the time limits, I wonder what 343 will set the time at and if they will add a countdown on the HUD.  What do you think will happen?

 

I remember @@Yoseph asking this question a while back and really nailing it. Basically, games will probably slow down quite a bit once there's an actual clock to run out.

 

EDIT: Upon further inspection, you asked "what will they do" instead of "what will the ramifications be". Oh well.

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I remember @@Yoseph asking this question a while back and really nailing it. Basically, games will probably slow down quite a bit once there's an actual clock to run out.

I can see that happening, especially if the game is close.  The other thing it will affect is timing.  If there is a clock on the HUD there won't be a need for talking timers which would balance the game a bit more once new players learn about weapon/pu timing

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 If there is a clock on the HUD there won't be a need for talking timers which would balance the game a bit more once new players learn about weapon/pu timing

 

Nah. Everyone will still use talking timers. I've used visible timers and the talking ones are infinitely more useful.

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Nah. Everyone will still use talking timers. I've used visible timers and the talking ones are infinitely more useful.

I typically use 1 of each when I play, lol.  An on screen timer will be infinitely more useful than my radio shack one simply because you don't have to look off screen.  But I'll continue to use my talker.

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Finished i earlier this evening, good stuff Chase. Can't wait for the podcast thing.

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1. Balance means always having a chance. Even if the other team has advantages, balance means doing everything possible to eliminate total checkmate scenarios where you have literally no option but to die even if you play and shoot perfectly - save for a few very rare circumstances, like randomly spawning in front of a camo rocket guy.

Amazing gametypes and a solid ranking system are the keys to matchmaking. For sure.

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Hey Chase, just got a chance to watch the show, great stuff man, I can't wait for round 2.  I also can't wait for MCC to drop so I can finally play Halo 1 with you after all these years.

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Halo plays differently depending on range. I think close-mid range faciliates the most enjoyable and comptetive gameplay. This is because strafing, melees, nades, the largest variety of weapons, geometry use, jumping and crouching all are effective here. Aiming is also more interesting because the target is more three dimentional than a distant target, and hitting shots is more consistent/fair in this range meaning a more accurate representation of player skill.

 

This is extemely important in map/gametype development because if the average encounter distance isnt on par with the optimal combat distance (as described above), it will never play great. Its why midship, lockout, prisoner and parts of damnation are so great, while sanctuary, beaver, warlock and the pit are good, but not great; the average distance in which you encounter enemies is too far, the maps for the most part play outside if halo's optimum range. They are close enough to it though that they can work. I prefer optimal though, over "can work".

 

Bit off topic but hopefully interesting. I would love to get on the show to talk about gametype/map design, or performance, teamwork and communication (cos no one goes in depth enough)

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I would love to get on the show to talk about gametype/map design

You better give offense/defense gametypes some love!

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You better give offense/defense gametypes some love!

 

The issue with that is complexity; nicer to have all the same format of gametypes....but to be honest I completely agree with you. There are some fucking amazing round-based asymmetrical gametypes out there. Every Halo title has had some awesome gametypes missed because MLG dropped that format so early and never game it another chance.

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