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Joseph

Halo & Scuf Controllers

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A player with a Scuf still has to press the same amount of buttons to preform a combo as the regular controller.

A problem with this is you can press other buttons that are not hindered by the combo. What about a jumping bxr. For a default player, his thumb is off the thumbstick longer and if the person moves or crouches, he might miss. On the other hand if someone plays with a scuf, they could map jump or x or b to their paddles And have the advantage.

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This question is, for the most part, why I made a thread a while back on if H2A was worth considering for tournaments over H2.

 

H2A will not have button combos. Now, while I understand that you can ban modded controllers from tournaments, you can't do shit about it for online gaming. It happens that online is where 99% of the practice takes place. I trust I don't need to explain the problem here. This used to be a big problem when H2 pre-patch was used for H2 post-patch for tournaments, or when updated settings were used for tournaments but not put in playlists.

If you don't understand the problem with modded controllers, it stems from the fact that at some point, companies will start design them with macros, meaning that one button will result in multiple inputs, leading to stuff like instant RRX (or even quad shots), optimal BXR, BXB, etc. and that, is a HUGE issue, because a fair amount of skill gap in H2 stems from these. Without even taking potential macro usage into account, it's just a fact that for some button combos, having paddles at the back of the controller makes it a lot easier when you need to use multiple buttons sitting on the front of the controller (because you only have so many fingers on there). It is a paid advantage over others, and it's something we shouldn't shoot for in competitive gaming.

While it's obvious that most people are against their usage in tournaments, as it should be, it's hard to believe MLG would disallow a huge sponsor's product from being used at tournaments. As a matter of fact, there's a great chance it won't happen. 

Adapting the game to it is the most logical alternative here, and seeing how H2A kinda gets rid of the buttons combos... 

Also, the game looks a lot better, will have more gametypes, more dev support, more overall customization and also Forge. Now, I know a lot of people don't want to change the slightest to how H2 was played, and it makes sense, but gaming as "evolved" (reference to modded controllers) and the game kinda needs to catch up.

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At the end of the day a SCUF is a lazy mans claw. 

 

I was just about to type almost the same thing.

 

My attitude is 'Yeah sure, use it. But you better not talk shit after the game SCUF Boy!!'

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I literally got them little bitch hands I can't claw for shit idgaf im copping the scuf 

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I understand people's plight about SCUF being a paid advantage. Or if you're a DIYer with a soldering iron, and willing to drop $4 on the supplies needed you can find all the information necessary on the soldering points to make your own SCUF, it's what I did back when i played COD.

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I just want to point out that Roy used a scuff controller.  Why ban them when people will just claw instead. If scuff is a lazy mans claw then clawing is for poor people that cant afford a scuff.

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I think moving forward the standard controller(the one made by microsoft) should have paddles. Scufs are a better controller then the current standard because of how the pinkie, ring, and middle finger (non-claw) don't do anything except hold the controller.

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I think moving forward the standard controller(the one made by microsoft) should have paddles. Scufs are a better controller then the current standard because of how the pinkie, ring, and middle finger (non-claw) don't do anything except hold the controller.

I agree with this a lot, and I've been saying it myself for a while. I'd have no problem with Scufs (or whatever controller with back paddles) if it was a standardized Microsoft thing, or just remappable buttons.

 

As a matter of fact, in 2014, games that aren't designed with 100% remappable control schemes should be shunned.

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I play with a default controller and always will.. but fuck everyone with hand issues that can't claw right? I voted yes as long as it doesn't involve a button that when hit does a series of buttons in quick succession.. 

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If MLG has Halo tournaments again I think they might not ban scufs since they are heavily sponsored by them.

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I trust the opinion of H2 pros like Gandhi who is against Scuff's in H2A. If it was up to him Bumper Jumper would be banned as well, because it takes away from one of the main skills in H2(moreso than any Halo) which is shooting while jumping. 

 

First off the game should have originally had more convenient controls to begin with (bumper jumper). Having to take your thumb off of the control stick to do basic/essential things like jump and melee is a design flaw, why should anyone have to suffer with such flaws when there are more comfortable solutions? And as stated before some people have the inability to claw due to either hand sizes or conditions that make it damn near impossible (pre-existing carpel tunnels, arthritis); having bigger hands does not take more skill. 

 

So what's your views on PC pros across every game using modified mouses like Razor Nagas? They all saw the practicality of them as much as people see Scufs*. 

 

 Mikwen and Gandhi both concluded on the UGC show Bumper Jumper shouldn't be an option for they think there is skill in clawing and shooting while jumping the original way. It is less comfortable to do, and most obviously harder, so I suppose I would agree as something harder to preform generally takes more skill.

 

That's an extremely flawed argument. Playing Halo with a steering wheel is obviously going to be harder so that equates to more skill? Sure it makes it harder, but its not practical nor is the default settings or controllers when we have more comfortable solutions.

 

It seriously sounds like you guys want to make gaming as uncomfortable as possible.

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Regardless of how much an advantage it gives people(which we dont really know yet because the game is not out), the real question is can Scuff's and any other controllers co-exist and both be viable options? Because we all know about how Scuff's are basically required in CoD MLG, do we want the same for Halo where it could provide an even larger advantage? The top team in CoD(Aches of EG) has gone on record saying Scuff's lower the skill gap, its not even a discussion.

 

I still dont understand why people would want this allowed in the MCC, clawing is part of H2's competitive history. I just dont think inexperienced H2 players understand what allowing modded controllers could potentially do to the game, its too big of a risk to take with no benefits to allowing them besides more money for MLG and the sponsor.

we shouldn't really look at how they impact other games, CoD has the worst control layouts, to do a lot of actions you have to take your thumb of the stick and a lot of the time these actions are crucial to be performed, scuffs just in this area would provide a decent advantage but at the same time they're making the game more comfortable and intuitive to play. fi anything i'd argue scuffs in CoD in crease the skill gap by giving players the option to perform split second actions mid combat, with a standard controller you just can't perform those actions in time so it would be a lot more who sees who first with no combat skills needed.

 

IMO clawing shouldn't be a required skill and something we should push for, for one its really really bad for your hands on i can't do it without having extreme pain in my right hand which prevents me from doing it and 2 it was just a way to use a controller more efficiently because of poor control layouts and button positions. it really isn't a skill but an un-healthy work around for poor designs. all skills required to be successfully should all be in game, nothing outside should require skill to use, we are just pressing buttons to perform actions after all, there is no skill in pushing buttons and trying to make it skilful is just asinine. the skill in playing games from the persons ability to work with a team, strategies, decision making, aiming ability and awareness. no matter how quick you can push a button has no impact on the skills required to succeed in a game, trying to make it harder to push a button is just a hindrance to being able to actually play the game.

 

a controller is a tool, a means to input information into a computer, this should be as efficient as possible and comfortable as possible so it doesn't hinder what you're trying to do. when it is hinder your abilities it becomes a frustrating, pointless obstacle. trying to force an obstacle is like forcing football players to use equipment that makes it more annoying and uncomfortable to run around the playing field hindering there performance.

 

 

i still find it hard to believe people are arguing against 3rd party controllers but at the same time support 3rd party headsets which provide a bigger advantage.

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At the end of the day a SCUF is a lazy mans claw. 

Bumper Jumper is a lazy man's claw.

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I think it's safe to say that you play fair or gtfo.

 

I fail to see how using a scuff would be considered as being unfair.

 

If I go to a Street Fighter LAN and say that a match up was unfair because my opponent had a fight stick, I'd get laughed at.

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I fail to see how using a scuff would be considered as being unfair.

 

If I go to a Street Fighter LAN and say that a match up was unfair because my opponent had a fight stick, I'd get laughed at.

 

Or going to a Counter-Strike Lan and saying it was unfair that your opponent was using a Keyboard?  :kappa:

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Lets face it Scuf can throw money towards MLG and be allowed like they currently are for cod, etc..

 

Also any top tier teams would undoubtedly be given scufs from the jump if they were allowed in competitive play so the playing field would be equal for any sponsored team but if you don't have a sponsor you would have to scrounge up money to buy one which could be an issue for some. 

 

I would be more worried about some online god having a macro controller and entering a online tournament and just devouring everyone with his one button skillz. 

 

I don't think they should be allowed but at the same time if it makes the competition better and we get great games as a result so be it.

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as others have said, macros are bad but have a more comfortable button layout isn't an advantage. when its comes to button layout on the controller and what button does what is 100% personal preference, some people are more comfortable with one way over the other, having stuff like scuffs won't be giving anyone an advantage, in fact its probably better for the health because clawing is seriously bad for your hands.

 

at the end of the day, having buttons in a more comfortable position doesn't change how the game plays, people have different play styles that'll suite different button positions. the buttons being in different more convenient position doesn't change the fact that every player still has to perform the same actions in game, they're not magically going to aim better, make better decisions, have better teamwork and pull off button combos perfectly every time. its just making the game more comfortable to play. there is literally no advantage to be gained from this and i don't see any problem with it. we're literally arguing that because a person can press a button faster he has an unfair advantage, if we're going to argue like this we may as well ban people with faster more trained reaction times because they can press a button faster and thus have an unfair advantage over others who don't. its really a stupid argument.

 

now headsets, why aren't they banned? they provide a huge advantage vs players who don't have them, they allow you to communicate with your team easier, clearer sound, can hear footsteps of where people are in the game allowing you to pinpoint there position without putting any effort in to being aware of what is going and can alert you to dangers around corners and stuff. people with just speakers or no sound at all don't get any of these quite significant advantages so lets ban headsets shall we?

 

On your headsets point, headsets are actually needed in a tournament setting with a crowd and live commentators. Extra buttons on a controller isn't. It would suck if you didn't have a headset and missed some vital callouts because the crowd was chanting Walshy's name. The poll question says events not your own living room. Besides back in the COD4 days i would often play search with my buddies who had astro headsets, I never had one, I just had my TV up really loud and i could hear footsteps and stuff fine not to the same quality but it worked. 

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I also taught myself button glitches at a young age and I get where people are coming from, but remember that players are still doing the combos on their own.

 

Hardware advantages exist and have been a thing since before 2014, that's why people still call us headset users cheating soundwhores.

 

Professional MMORPG players use game UI addons and mice with 24+ buttons with changeable DPI to make keybinds easier to press. World of Warcraft players have specific button combos just like we do.

Professional fighting game players (Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, etc) all have different and custom controllers or gamepads as well, we aren't in the stone age anymore.

 

As another user said, Scuf can be used for those that don't want to be forced to change to an uncomfortable hand position to do something they can already do, just like WoW players and CS:GO players have those mice to avoid uncomfortable hand positions and improve player movement.

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I also taught myself button glitches at a young age and I get where people are coming from, but remember that players are still doing the combos on their own.

 

Hardware advantages exist and have been a thing since before 2014, that's why people still call us headset users cheating soundwhores.

 

Professional MMORPG players use game UI addons and mice with 24+ buttons with changeable DPI to make keybinds easier to press. World of Warcraft players have specific button combos just like we do.

Professional fighting game players (Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, etc) all have different and custom controllers or gamepads as well, we aren't in the stone age anymore.

 

As another user said, Scuf can be used for those that don't want to be forced to change to an uncomfortable hand position to do something they can already do, just like WoW players and CS:GO players have those mice to avoid uncomfortable hand positions and improve player movement.

 

You realize if you allow Scuff's EVERYONE will then basically be required to use a Scuff because its a modded controller made to give you an advantage over players using non-modded controllers. Were not talking about modern games/PC games when were talking about H2, player's who mastered Claw and H2's advanced techniques for years shouldn't be punished while some fagboy with a Scuff gets it much easier.

 

Of course its feels better because its fkn easier, doesn't make it the right thing for a 10 year old competitive title made to differentiate skill levels between players. Learning combos and certain skills were the prerequisite of moving up the individual skill ladder.

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First off the game should have originally had more convenient controls to begin with (bumper jumper). Having to take your thumb off of the control stick to do basic/essential things like jump and melee is a design flaw, why should anyone have to suffer with such flaws when there are more comfortable solutions? And as stated before some people have the inability to claw due to either hand sizes or conditions that make it damn near impossible (pre-existing carpel tunnels, arthritis); having bigger hands does not take more skill. 

 

So what's your views on PC pros across every game using modified mouses like Razor Nagas? They all saw the practicality of them as much as people see Scufs*. 

 

 

That's an extremely flawed argument. Playing Halo with a steering wheel is obviously going to be harder so that equates to more skill? Sure it makes it harder, but its not practical nor is the default settings or controllers when we have more comfortable solutions.

 

It seriously sounds like you guys want to make gaming as uncomfortable as possible.

Finally someone gets it, although i would extend these points by saying that Double shots are very uncomfortable as well so we should start allowing macro controllers too. Also i find it very uncomfortable to have to exert myself enough to find my opponents in the game can we start using wall hacks as well?

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On your headsets point, headsets are actually needed in a tournament setting with a crowd and live commentators. Extra buttons on a controller isn't. It would suck if you didn't have a headset and missed some vital callouts because the crowd was chanting Walshy's name. The poll question says events not your own living room. Besides back in the COD4 days i would often play search with my buddies who had astro headsets, I never had one, I just had my TV up really loud and i could hear footsteps and stuff fine not to the same quality but it worked.

and its unfair for teams to have a paid advantage other over teams from being able to afford better headsets, teams that can't afford headsets have to make do with what they have. so, to get rid of this advantage everyone should have to use microsofts standard headsets.

6b538a60-8a3e-4d2a-b1b8-92f2e53142e0.png

 

its only fair. :frank:

 

 

@@Hitman clawing isn't a skill, its just training your finger to sit in a different position, its like learning how to kick a ball which everyone can do. the problem here is that clawing is really bad for your hands and people who already have issues suffer a lot of pain doing it. it something that should be discouraged to promote better health not encouraged.

 

edit:

also, can we please stop calling 3rd party controllers modded? there is a distinct difference. a 3rd party controller isn't modded, they may have a different design and firmware but they still send the same information to the console as the standard controller does. a modded controller however is where someone has or paid someone else to mod in extra buttons and/or re-program the controller to do other things it isn't intended to do. i knew a guy on XBL that modded is controller so that every time he would pull the right trigger it would send this annoying beep through everyone's speakers. modded controllers are bad because you don't know what the person could have done to them and its insane what kind of advantages you can get from it. 3rd party controllers are just a different design that don't offer any where near the advantages of modded controllers.

 

i'm also disliking how the poll states 3rd party controllers yet the title and post state modded. the poll is essentially different to what the topic is meant to be.

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You realize if you allow Scuff's EVERYONE will then basically be required to use a Scuff because its a modded controller made to give you an advantage over players using non-modded controllers. Were not talking about modern games/PC games when were talking about H2, player's who mastered Claw and H2's advanced techniques for years shouldn't be punished while some fagboy with a Scuff gets it much easier.

 

Of course its feels better because its fkn easier, doesn't make it the right thing for a 10 year old competitive title made to differentiate skill levels between players. Learning combos and certain skills were the prerequisite of moving up the individual skill ladder.

 

So because they weren't around before they shouldn't be allowed now?

 

Look at the FGC community. Fight sticks are specifically designed for the genre, yet there are top players in many of the different games that don't use one. It is all down to preference. Scufs aren't going to be required.

 

There is a reason why NO OTHER COMPETITIVE COMMUNITY has this debate.

 

Whats your opinion on headsets? Should tournaments start banning headsets now because not everyone can afford one?

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