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Joseph

Halo & Scuf Controllers

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I believe they said mappable controller settings will not be happening for MCC, but you will be able to use controller schemes in games like H2 that were only present in H3+ such as Bumper Jumper.

no. they said you will be able to use your favorite schemes across all halo titles. then quinn teased "mapable controls are way better" when asked about if we could play our favorite control schemes from all halo on twitter

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So doesn't this mean that we'll be getting Halo 3's RB to reload anyway?

I would assume so then, yeah.

 

no. they said you will be able to use your favorite schemes across all halo titles. then quinn teased "mapable controls are way better" when asked about if we could play our favorite control schemes from all halo on twitter

It was a tease, but they confirmed controller buttons won't be completely mappable. I would think Quinn was referring to H5.

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It was a tease, but they confirmed controller buttons won't be completely mappable. I would think Quinn was referring to H5.

 

They've surprised us before especially with the MCC, they could surprise us with more control options.

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I doubt it will matter much depending on the extent to which they modernize the control schemes. In all likelihood, there will be at least 1 or 2 configurations that map 4/5 actions (reload, melee, shoot, grenade, and jump) onto the shoulder buttons. What are you going to do? Ban bumper jumper too?

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They've surprised us before especially with the MCC, they could surprise us with more control options.

We saw the full control options at RTX - there is no custom button mapping.

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They've surprised us before especially with the MCC, they could surprise us with more control options.

They've stated before that controller schemes are very tricky to deal with, especially with the old engines they're having to use for MCC. Just how spectator mode isn't viable for MCC, it's hard to do on an old engine without rewriting code etc. I highly doubt we're gonna get fully customisable control schemes, the fact we're able to use a bunch of controller schemes from previous games across the board in MCC is remarkable. 

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We saw the full control options at RTX - there is no custom button mapping.

Was that in the panel video? Where can I see them?

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What if the tournaments have online qualifiers(I'm almost positive they will), how do you enforce controller restrictions in that setting?

 

 

I haven't been following MLG since Halo dropped off, but from my limited understanding, CoD doesn't have an actual "open" tournament setting where any team can enter and win the event. They instead of an online component that feeds into a "league" of sorts.

 

If MLG(or any organizer) went that route with Halo, which would make sense from a logistics standpoint, this entire discussion is kind of moot.

 

 

Personally I don't want 'macro' enabled controllers, but controllers with different button placements are perfectly fine in my opinion, and really started to take off around the time of the Razer Onza(which came out when Halo wasn't dead yet). 

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You realize if you allow Scuff's EVERYONE will then basically be required to use a Scuff because its a modded controller made to give you an advantage over players using non-modded controllers. Were not talking about modern games/PC games when were talking about H2, player's who mastered Claw and H2's advanced techniques for years shouldn't be punished while some fagboy with a Scuff gets it much easier.

 

Of course its feels better because its fkn easier, doesn't make it the right thing for a 10 year old competitive title made to differentiate skill levels between players. Learning combos and certain skills were the prerequisite of moving up the individual skill ladder.

Counter Strike is older than Halo and they have barely changed their game since 1999 compared to what our developers did, so those pro players from back then would you use the same argument as you but they don't.

 

Also, not to be rude or blunt but if you think that some team is going to place top 8 just because of extra buttons on the back of a controller.... you are insane

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Quick question, has anyone used the POS that is the XBONE controller? It's such a step backwards in terms of controller design I'm hoping for some kind of alternative. 

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What if the tournaments have online qualifiers(I'm almost positive they will), how do you enforce controller restrictions in that setting?

 

 

 

You can't unless you make people stream their hands. 

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Was that in the panel video? Where can I see them?

It was in the Panel video.

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I see nothing wrong with Scufs or any controller so long as it doesn't have macro function. 

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Quick question, has anyone used the POS that is the XBONE controller? It's such a step backwards in terms of controller design I'm hoping for some kind of alternative. 

 

I actually prefer it to the 360 controller. The sticks and D-Pad all feel much higher quality to me than those on a stock 360 controller.

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I think clawing is a part of the culture that made Halo the powerhouse that it was.  Giving everyone the ability to comfortably and easily perform them kinda deflates the whole cool factor of it.

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I have quite a few points to make

 

1) Scufs are the natural progression of controllers.  They are more ergonomic, hand healthy, and increase functionality.  In short they offer a better gaming experience and that's not something we should deny our competitive community.  An FPS controller that offers the ability to perform all actions without taking your hand off the right stick is just plain logical.  Rather than chastice scufs for being better we should be writing M$ to come out with/standardize an affordable FPS designed controller with more ergonomic button layouts for the modern FPS console gamer.

 

2) The bumpers do the exact same thing as the scuf paddles, it is pretty much guaranteed we'll be able to reload, melee, and jump from the bumpers(though only 2/3) but no one seems to be calling the bumpers this awful skill gap reducer.  This tells me that people just have an issue with scufs cause they're pricey and don't want to spend the money on one.  But honestly, it's 1/3 actions you'd actually want to do without taking your hand off the right stick, it's not that big of a deal, especially in H2 where melee lunge/hitbox is so ridiculous it's not like you need much precision.

 

3) I do not agree that scufs make button combos easier, the challenge is timing and being clutch in game.  What scufs allow you to do is keep you aiming while you perform actions.  Think about that, people are saying that it is more skillful to not aim.  With scufs you aim while performing actions making it more skill based to pull off those big combos rather than taking your thumb off your aimer and hope your opponent either doesn't move or strafes into your reticule.

 

4) (to make an analogy) I bought a new tennis racquet this year and it significantly improved my game because it's a better racquet.  Now lets say I go to a tournament and they have the mentality scuf haters are employing, they say that not everyone can afford nice racquets like mine and it's unfair for me to use it because it gives me an advantage I paid for.  So now everyone uses the same $20 racquet.  So I go out and compete and find that I can't get the same power and accuracy I did from my racquet, the tension and sweet spot is different  and I ended up performing well, but under my potential because of equipment limitation.

 

This is my biggest issue, that we are talking about gimping players, not allowing bigger players and better performances out of fear that someone might have an easier time double shotting.  This fear is misplaced and if you're THAT worried about it save your pennies and buy a freaking scuf, I mean we're talking about professional tournaments here, if you're not willing to put the time, effort, and yes the money into competing at your best then you need to accept that and quit bitching.

 

5) It doesn't matter, scufs aren't getting banned and even if they did the bumpers would do the same thing, quit crying about H2's skill gap cause it isn't that big to begin with and move on because this debate is pointless.  If you want skill gap, play Halo 1 and there is no double shot and only 2 desirable actions while aiming(jump/melee) and I promise you'll all get bumper jumper.

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To those comparing Scuff's to fight sticks in fighting games those 100% different things...

 

Steering wheels, do not have ADDED buttons that allow for modified bottom configuration.

Nor do fight and flight sticks which are also a culturally important aspect of those genre's seeing as how they basically originated in arcades.

 

Do they in general add a advantage, yes but still use standard configuration. There is a reason scuff controllers were not allowed in official tournaments until recently while steering wheels and sticks always were.

 

So yes Scuff controllers are cheating in my book. you are using modified configurations(that the VAST majority of players dont have access to) to give you an advantage. The level playing field of controllers is destroyed once you introduce modded controllers like these. I wouldn't feel right playing H2 online with a Scuff or on LAN knowing players with regular controllers have to work harder than me to get the same results, maybe because I actually respect the game and skill required to become proficient at the game.

 

And please dont try to downplay it by saying "What is the big deal about someone just hitting buttons differently?" No, they are reducing the need to make extra moves and basically making the whole moving+shooting part of shooters easier for themselves which reduces the skill gap. Not to mention Claw(that the guy in my sig popularized) most likely would be lost with the introduction of Scuff's and it would be majorly changing how the game is played at the top level. 

 

Its kind of like Baseball with the steroid era, was it more exciting to watch because players were hitting record numbers of homers? Yes, but it was giving certain players unfair advantages and ruined the even playing field and tradition of Baseball. 

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If modded controllers for video games are used because a players hand hurts from clawing ):

 

Would be like in a marathon someone decided to race with a ATV because their ankle hurt.

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Would be like in a marathon someone decided to race with a ATV because their ankle hurt.

nope, more like taking strong pain killers to numb the pain so they can run and compete.

 

To those comparing Scuff's to fight sticks in fighting games those 100% different things...

 

Steering wheels, do not have ADDED buttons that allow for modified bottom configuration.

Nor do fight and flight sticks which are also a culturally important aspect of those genre's seeing as how they basically originated in arcades.

 

Do they in general add a advantage, yes but still use standard configuration. There is a reason scuff controllers were not allowed in official tournaments until recently while steering wheels and sticks always were.

 

So yes Scuff controllers are cheating in my book. you are using modified configurations(that the VAST majority of players dont have access to) to give you an advantage. The level playing field of controllers is destroyed once you introduce modded controllers like these. I wouldn't feel right playing H2 online with a Scuff or on LAN knowing players with regular controllers have to work harder than me to get the same results, maybe because I actually respect the game and skill required to become proficient at the game.

 

And please dont try to downplay it by saying "What is the big deal about someone just hitting buttons differently?" No, they are reducing the need to make extra moves and basically making the whole moving+shooting part of shooters easier for themselves which reduces the skill gap. Not to mention Claw(that the guy in my sig popularized) most likely would be lost with the introduction of Scuff's and it would be majorly changing how the game is played at the top level.

 

Its kind of like Baseball with the steroid era, was it more exciting to watch because players were hitting record numbers of homers? Yes, but it was giving certain players unfair advantages and ruined the even playing field and tradition of Baseball.

is this serious? seriously? i mean really?

 

yes scuffs and fight sticks do the same thing, fight stick have the buttons in a set up that makes it much easier to do button combos because you can use multiple fingers to press them out instead of just one on a controller, they also have a stick that makes it easier to define which direction. a scuff controller has extra buttons on the back that copy buttons on the face, this just allows you to use more fingers to press out button combos in halo 2 just like a fight stick does for fighting games.

 

the steering wheel point is just that if we want to use one type of controller over another that makes it harder to play the game then we should use steering wheels because trying to aim on those things and press button combos is royal bitch and by your logic should require a tone of skill greatly increasing the skill gap.

 

scuffs can't be compared to steroids in baseball or generally any real actions performed in a sport, it should be compared to equipment that players have available because all a controller is, is a tool for inputing information into a computer and player equipment in sports are tools to help people play those sports. as for steroids, steroids allowed players to hit being the limits of the game allowing for more home runs, scuffs don't allow people to go beyond the limits of the game, it allows people to press a button in a more comfortable fashion while the limits as defined by the game itself aren't broken or altered in any way.

 

seriously, please stop treating scuffs like they're a macro controllers, a macro controller would break the limits of the game by allowing everyone to be a quadshotpro at the press of a button. scuffs aren't macros and still require a person to press each individual button to perform the button combo, because of this the skill required to perform and utilize the button combos remains the same, the amount of actions required to do remains the same. you still have to take your focus off aiming to perform the combo because hands don't have the dexterity and coordination to really multitask it along side aiming so timing the button combos requires the same amount of skill in that area. performing the button combo requires the same skill because you can't just mash the buttons, you have to press them in a specific order at a very high speed, just because you can switch between thumb and finger doesn't alter the speed and order required and can be argued requires more skill because switching between finger and thumb requires more coordination to do then rolling your finger over the buttons in a clawed fashion.

 

this argument is really pathetic and shouldn't even need to be discussed.

 

- macros are super hacks and anyone found using them should be fined.

- xim4 is bad because it just allows you to swap a controller for a keyboard and because of console optimization this makes it piss easy to play

- controllers with better optimized layouts are fine because it doesn't change anything other then comfort-ability.

 

what about the 2 bumpers on the xbone controller that weren't there before? they're going to make it easier because of being able to move actions that required clawing to do before to the bumpers as well. should we beg microsoft to also release a classic xbox controller to go along with TMCC to eliminate this?

 

lets stop acting like scuffs will make everyone who uses them a god and cherry picking picking controllers.

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And please dont try to downplay it by saying "What is the big deal about someone just hitting buttons differently?" No, they are reducing the need to make extra moves and basically making the whole moving+shooting part of shooters easier for themselves which reduces the skill gap. Not to mention Claw(that the guy in my sig popularized) most likely would be lost with the introduction of Scuff's and it would be majorly changing how the game is played at the top level. 

People are downplaying it because every other game shows us it shouldn't make that much of a difference. Lets assume it does have some impact it'll likely reach equilibrium at a very similar level to Bumper Jumper which is almost certainly coming in MCC. How would that change things at a gameplay level? Well we've seen the minimum in Halo3's Bumper Jumper and at maximum I'd guess it'd have a similar impact as the popularization of the scroll wheel for bunnyhopping in arena shooters.

 

To have more of an impact Halo2 would literally have to be the exception to the rule where decreasing the strain of a few actions breaks the whole game.

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Modded controllers were originally made for games such a CoD WaW. The Modded controllers should stay away from the game of Halo. So it's a NO.. 3rd party controllers, stay AWAY from Halo events!

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To those comparing Scuff's to fight sticks in fighting games those 100% different things...
 
Steering wheels, do not have ADDED buttons that allow for modified bottom configuration.
Nor do fight and flight sticks which are also a culturally important aspect of those genre's seeing as how they basically originated in arcades.
 
Do they in general add a advantage, yes but still use standard configuration. There is a reason scuff controllers were not allowed in official tournaments until recently while steering wheels and sticks always were.
 
So yes Scuff controllers are cheating in my book. you are using modified configurations(that the VAST majority of players dont have access to) to give you an advantage. The level playing field of controllers is destroyed once you introduce modded controllers like these. I wouldn't feel right playing H2 online with a Scuff or on LAN knowing players with regular controllers have to work harder than me to get the same results, maybe because I actually respect the game and skill required to become proficient at the game.
 
And please dont try to downplay it by saying "What is the big deal about someone just hitting buttons differently?" No, they are reducing the need to make extra moves and basically making the whole moving+shooting part of shooters easier for themselves which reduces the skill gap. Not to mention Claw(that the guy in my sig popularized) most likely would be lost with the introduction of Scuff's and it would be majorly changing how the game is played at the top level. 
 
Its kind of like Baseball with the steroid era, was it more exciting to watch because players were hitting record numbers of homers? Yes, but it was giving certain players unfair advantages and ruined the even playing field and tradition of Baseball. 

 

Did you just compare using a scuff controller to the steroid era of baseball? Ok I'm fucking done.

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Quick question, has anyone used the POS that is the XBONE controller? It's such a step backwards in terms of controller design I'm hoping for some kind of alternative. 

I prefer it for everything EXCEPT the bumpers, they are gonna suck for FPS.

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I prefer it for everything EXCEPT the bumpers, they are gonna suck for FPS.

Bumpers aren't great, triggers take some getting use to. Today was my first day messing around H2V with my xbone controller and I found myself not shooting a second time because I didn't let off my trigger enough a couple of times.

 

Other than that, everything else felt fine.

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nope, more like taking strong pain killers to numb the pain so they can run and compete.

 

 

is this serious? seriously? i mean really?

 

yes scuffs and fight sticks do the same thing, fight stick have the buttons in a set up that makes it much easier to do button combos because you can use multiple fingers to press them out instead of just one on a controller, they also have a stick that makes it easier to define which direction. a scuff controller has extra buttons on the back that copy buttons on the face, this just allows you to use more fingers to press out button combos in halo 2 just like a fight stick does for fighting games.

 

the steering wheel point is just that if we want to use one type of controller over another that makes it harder to play the game then we should use steering wheels because trying to aim on those things and press button combos is royal bitch and by your logic should require a tone of skill greatly increasing the skill gap.

 

scuffs can't be compared to steroids in baseball or generally any real actions performed in a sport, it should be compared to equipment that players have available because all a controller is, is a tool for inputing information into a computer and player equipment in sports are tools to help people play those sports. as for steroids, steroids allowed players to hit being the limits of the game allowing for more home runs, scuffs don't allow people to go beyond the limits of the game, it allows people to press a button in a more comfortable fashion while the limits as defined by the game itself aren't broken or altered in any way.

 

seriously, please stop treating scuffs like they're a macro controllers, a macro controller would break the limits of the game by allowing everyone to be a quadshotpro at the press of a button. scuffs aren't macros and still require a person to press each individual button to perform the button combo, because of this the skill required to perform and utilize the button combos remains the same, the amount of actions required to do remains the same. you still have to take your focus off aiming to perform the combo because hands don't have the dexterity and coordination to really multitask it along side aiming so timing the button combos requires the same amount of skill in that area. performing the button combo requires the same skill because you can't just mash the buttons, you have to press them in a specific order at a very high speed, just because you can switch between thumb and finger doesn't alter the speed and order required and can be argued requires more skill because switching between finger and thumb requires more coordination to do then rolling your finger over the buttons in a clawed fashion.

 

this argument is really pathetic and shouldn't even need to be discussed.

 

- macros are super hacks and anyone found using them should be fined.

- xim4 is bad because it just allows you to swap a controller for a keyboard and because of console optimization this makes it piss easy to play

- controllers with better optimized layouts are fine because it doesn't change anything other then comfort-ability.

 

what about the 2 bumpers on the xbone controller that weren't there before? they're going to make it easier because of being able to move actions that required clawing to do before to the bumpers as well. should we beg microsoft to also release a classic xbox controller to go along with TMCC to eliminate this?

 

lets stop acting like scuffs will make everyone who uses them a god and cherry picking picking controllers.

 

There is no difference between using your thumb and your middle fingers? Your thumb is used to aim, your fingers are not that is a huge advantage. For the last time...a modded  controller configuration and a different  controller lay-out are two completely different things.

 

Your example of the same button presses required only works for different controller lay-outs, not a modded controller configuration which gives you more buttons to press that dont exist on regular controllers. If someone has MORE buttons on their controller to utilize that I dont that allows them to move+shoot easier than me and pull off combos easier, how is that fair?

 

People have been playing H2 with Xbox 360 controllers for a long time, the XB1 controller is similar to it. Top pro teams in CoD admit it reduces the skill gap what do you think that would do to a game that is more movement-based in gun battles and has many exploitable button combos? I saw a video of an honest soul playing Titanfall with a Scuff( a more movement based shooter) and saying he felt like he was cheating because he could do things and get to places with wall-running/jumping that nobody else could and moving+shooting was much easier.

 

Do y'all just want Scuff gaming(a modded controller company) to take over every console shooter FPS scene or what? Just let it go at least for H1/H2 it doesn't make any sense to allow them.

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