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Halo & Scuf Controllers

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Keyboards aren't a $120 advantage. Everyone in PC gaming has a keyboard by default.

 

 

Not everyone has the same fancy keyboards or modified mouses like the Naga (the Scuf of mouses) that has like 15 keys on it.

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well headsets aren't needed, just tell the crowd to be quiet..

 

crowd yelling and screaming can give away stuff even over headsets. how the crowd reacts is directly related to what they're watching so if the crowd gets really hyper then obviously somethings about to happen and alerts players to it.

 

TBH no 3rd party equipment should be needed, it should just be down to personal preference.

 

Just tell the crowd to be quiet? Seriously? 

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Keyboards aren't a $120 advantage. Everyone in PC gaming has a keyboard by default.

 

Everyone in console gaming has a controller.

 

PC Players aren't restricted to one keyboard and mouse model.

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Just tell the crowd to be quiet? Seriously?

obviously not.. though i do think no 3rd party equipment should be required and having teams together while competing is stupid because the coaches can hear what the other team is yelling out and stuff... they really should be isolated from each other. if teams were isolated then there wouldn't be a need for headsets and just be preference. but then that takes away from the whole centre stage thing..

 

but the point is still true, headsets are a paid advantage vs people who don't pay for them and are a much bigger advantage compared to controllers. if we want to eliminate paid advantages then headsets have to go as well.

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Fightsticks are more, and no one gets them by default either.

 

Although $120 is asking a bit much IMO.

 

I give fighters a pass because they're not designed to be played with a controller.

 

 

Not everyone has the same fancy keyboards or modified mouses like the Naga (the Scuf of mouses) that has like 15 keys on it.

 

Not everyone needs one.

 

 

Everyone in console gaming has a controller.

 

PC Players aren't restricted to one keyboard and mouse model.

This also has some truth to it. PC gaming isn't designed around everyone having the same hardware in the same way console gaming is.

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Not everyone has the same fancy keyboards or modified mouses like the Naga (the Scuf of mouses) that has like 15 keys on it.

 

PC games are irrelevant to this discussion:

 

1. PC games weren't built around standardized hardware like console games. PC games were built around third-person hardware and upgrades.

 

2. PC shooters(not even going beyond that because it doesn't matter) dont require mouses with tons of buttons and many pros still use relatively cheap (40-60)  optical mice because they control better.

 

3. You never have to take your hand off your mouse(your aiming hand) while running+shooting in PC shooters you control the mouse with your entire hand. In console shooters you control aim with your thumb in combination with your movement. In Halo 2 part of the skill of the game in jump shooting, double-shot, BxR, was being able to re-adjust your hands(taking your thumb off the right thumb-stick temporarily) to perform these maneuvers making it harder to shoot accurately during these maneuvers/combos.

 

If you watch a pro H2 player like Karma his fingers  are constantly re-adjusting and changing position between claw and default, having that controller dexterity is an essential skill to the game. Its not really like that if you watch PC shooter players, most aim is controlled with the mouse and they are not required to do such finger dancing.

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PC games are irrelevant to this discussion:

 

1. PC games weren't built around standardized hardware like console games. PC games were built around third-person hardware and upgrades.

 

2. PC shooters(not even going beyond that because it doesn't matter) dont require mouses with tons of buttons and many pros still use relatively cheap (40-60)  optical mice because they control better.

 

3. You never have to take your hand off your mouse(your aiming hand) while running+shooting in PC shooters you control the mouse with your entire hand. In console shooters you control aim with your thumb in combination with your movement. In Halo 2 part of the skill of the game in jump shooting, double-shot, BxR, was being able to re-adjust your hands(taking your thumb off the right thumb-stick temporarily) to perform these maneuvers making it harder to shoot accurately during these maneuvers/combos.

 

If you watch a pro H2 player like Karma his fingers  are constantly re-adjusting and changing position between claw and default, having that controller dexterity is an essential skill to the game. Its not really like that if you watch PC shooter players, most aim is controlled with the mouse and they are not required to do such finger dancing.

1) no game is designed around standardized hardware. a games gameplay mechanics and its story don't have anything to do with what hardware people use, regardless of the hardware the mechanics would still be the same. lets not forget a tone of console/pc ports that are out there as well. the only difference between pc and console design wise is optimization which only effects graphics quality, that's it.

 

2) a gaming mouse is pretty much 'required' for pc FPS because with a standard mouse you have to take your fingers off the moving buttons to perform actions, with a gaming mouse you have the buttons right under your thumb on the mouse so you don't have to stop moving. but at the end this comes down to players preference and doesn't impact the skill required to play the game in the slightest.

 

3) on console games you don't have to take your thumb of the analog sticks to run and shoot either, but when it comes to doing more then just running and shooting both on pc and console you have to take your fingers or thumbs off either movement or aim control to perform other actions mid combat. i also don't see why you're solely fixated on H2 here when the topic doesn't specifically state which game, what if its a H1 tourny, a H3 tourny or a H2A tourny where button combos don't exist instead?

 

4) so because pro players but there hands through, what to me is torture we should have to do it as well now even though there are better alternatives available? just because it was done in the past doesn't mean we should do it now. the past just shows how people played back then and how they adapted to the obstacles that were getting in there way, it isn't instructions on how we should be working now. as for button combos, don't see have a better optimized, more comfortable controller will make performing a button combo require any less skill, you still have to dance your fingers around the controller taking away focus from aiming for a split secound to pull of the combo, this doesn't change unless you're using a macro. it also doesn't effect a persons skill at aiming, decisions making, teamwork and awareness.

 

i have a question, why the hell are we arguing about which why we should push buttons? no matter which way we push buttons the outcome and skill required is still the same.

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In Halo 2 part of the skill of the game in jump shooting, double-shot, BxR, was being able to re-adjust your hands(taking your thumb off the right thumb-stick temporarily) to perform these maneuvers making it harder to shoot accurately during these maneuvers/combos.

 

So what happens when we move into Halo 5 after a year... there wont be button combos in that game. Then there is practically little argument against the use of Scufs.

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I just...I mean come on. We just get Halo 1 and 2 back and we're already nerfing the skill gap and making it easier on people to play and possibly do glitches? Button jumper will already be doing wonders for people as it is, do we need modded controllers too?

 

Altho I bet if Nadeshot came back and beasted Halo 2 with a scuf, he'd bring over a huge crowd of the CoD community:P #WeBack? 

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I just...I mean come on. We just get Halo 1 and 2 back and we're already nerfing the skill gap and making it easier on people to play and possibly do glitches? Button jumper will already be doing wonders for people as it is, do we need modded controllers too?

 

Altho I bet if Nadeshot came back and beasted Halo 2 with a scuf, he'd bring over a huge crowd of the CoD community:P #WeBack? 

If a key part of the skill gap is "where the buttons are on the controller", then that game's skill gap is shit.

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I feel that we should just eliminate them I know online play is a problem, but if you play someone better (you know what I mean by better) than you then you will become a better player as well. Now this is just something small I just thought of, but these stupid cuffs you get are a market for mlg like mentioned before in this thread and the more money the bigger the prizing. I feel like if everyone had scuff then we would all be equal but then again that's not the situation. My feelings are truly mixed I honestly even thought of picking one up a time or two but I'm keeping my money and only getting one if they are completely necessary, let's hope that's not the situation.

 

My random tangent of two cents

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If a key part of the skill gap is "where the buttons are on the controller", then that game's skill gap is shit.

Obviously people are exaggerating on both sides to push their viewpoints.

 

Timely coordination of action is unarguably a requirement of a shooter game - however where that point of required coordination lies is ultimately subjective. You're going to have a tough time because it's much easier to argue in favor of increased player coordination over a reduction.

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I just...I mean come on. We just get Halo 1 and 2 back and we're already nerfing the skill gap and making it easier on people to play and possibly do glitches? Button jumper will already be doing wonders for people as it is, do we need modded controllers too?

 

Altho I bet if Nadeshot came back and beasted Halo 2 with a scuf, he'd bring over a huge crowd of the CoD community:P #WeBack? 

 

I dont get it either, you all bitch about how H4 is easy as shit and the first thing you want to do(with games most of y'all haven't seriously played in years and are not in-tune with the meta) is noobifiy H2 and H1 with modded controllers designed for kids who couldn't L2P.

 

You would all rather force the whole comp Halo community to dish out $120 for a modded controller that was BANNED by MLG until the pro players allowed it SOLEY because they learned it would increase the prize pool at events.

 

You would have skilled players who have been mastering the optimal way to play H1/H2 for years change how they play the game because you are not nearly as competent at the game as they are.

 

BRB, going to go introduce modded controllers to *insert 10 year old competitive game here" because i am an ignorant noob that has no idea what I am talking about as to how controller lay-out pertains to that game. What takes more skill to master Claw and learning when to adapt my controller grip to depending on game scenarios, or picking up a Scuff remapping two buttons to my two paddles, and instantly being able to perform all the skilled maneuvers the pros can with half the sacrifice?

 

I'll take hardcore H2 player's opinions over the Scuff crowd any day.

 

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what would you rather, have something that is optimized to be used or have it force difficulty by an un-optimized layout on purpose? when it comes to using a control system for anything it should always be as optimized as possible, otherwise errors happen causing problems or just makes things unnecessarily frustrating and/or painful.

 

its not like we're talking about macros where at the press of a button you'd pull off the button combos.. it takes just as much coordination regardless of button layout to perform a button combo mid combat. one way is just optimized and the other isn't, i'd rather have the optimized version.

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what would you rather, have something that is optimized to be used or have it force difficulty by an un-optimized layout on purpose? when it comes to using a control system for anything it should always be as optimized as possible, otherwise errors happen causing problems or just makes things unnecessarily frustrating and/or painful.

 

its not like we're talking about macros where at the press of a button you'd pull off the button combos.. it takes just as much coordination regardless of button layout to perform a button combo mid combat. one way is just optimized and the other isn't, i'd rather have the optimized version.

 

No it wont saying that is ridiculous, watch the above video. FYI the "optimal" controller IS a quad-shot controller its the easiest and most comfortable way to play, that doesn't make it the best competitive option or fair IMO .

 

its not a different controller lay-out like BJ or Boxer, its a fkn modded controller with added paddles you can re-map any button too allowing you to perform skilled maneuvers EASIER than what everyone else is using which is regular(non-modded) controllers. Until console games like Halo come with completely re-mappable controls this will be an issue.

 

 

Going off the mindset that glitches will be in H2A. Where I say it will COMPLETELYdestroy the skill gap, obviously not but it will destroy the main skill gap that goes without saying for the important glitches in Halo 2... Double shot, BXR, RRBX, XSV Shot. How will we ever know who has one.
The button layouts scuff will alow you to have will give you alternative easier ways to do these things.

 

 

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No it wont saying that is ridiculous, watch the above video. FYI the "optimal" controller IS a quad-shot controller its the easiest and most comfortable way to play, that doesn't make it the best competitive option or fair IMO .

 

its not a different controller lay-out like BJ or Boxer, its a fkn modded controller with added paddles you can re-map any button too allowing you to perform skilled maneuvers EASIER than what everyone else is using which is regular(non-modded) controllers. Until console games like Halo come with completely re-mappable controls this will be an issue.

and as @@Tiburon already said, if you need a controller that hinders a persons ability to play a game to make it competitive then there is something wrong with the game to begin with.

 

every single competitive skilled merit should be provided for by the game and not the controller.

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I have a scuf but im going to get the XIM4 so I can use my mouse and keyboard to destroy kids on the console. The xim4 releases end of this month!!

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I just...I mean come on. We just get Halo 1 and 2 back and we're already nerfing the skill gap and making it easier on people to play and possibly do glitches? Button jumper will already be doing wonders for people as it is, do we need modded controllers too?

 

 

Someone link me to the competitive Street Fighter forums so I can make a thread about how Fight Sticks are nerfing the skillgap because it moves the buttons into positions that make combos easier to pull off.

 

Oh wait, it doesn't because its all down to preference:

http://kotaku.com/the-2014-evo-champ-just-won-using-a-ps1-controller-1604535870

 

 

If a key part of the skill gap is "where the buttons are on the controller", then that game's skill gap is shit.

 

Bingo. 

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A few more things:

1. Stock controllers (at least on the 360, I don't think anyone has gone through enough XB1 controllers to speak definitively on this yet) suck. The wide tolerances for error lead to varying degrees of slow turn and frankly they're not really designed to optimise the user's dexterity.

 

2. Does it not speak more negatively towards Halo 2 than anything else if the worry is that what is essentially a custom controller scheme will "destroy the skill gap"? We're talking about a few glitches which will likely be already more difficult to execute due to the game running at a frame rate twice as fast as it ever did before. If Bumper Jumper or any other way of customising the layout (whether via hardware or software) will break the game, then that's more of a problem with the game than anything else.

 

3. This discussion prompted me to buy a Scuf One (4 paddles, customisable remapping) just to have a more accurate point of reference (and because I have bad joints and no amount of trying to claw in various ways makes it not painful after a short period of time),and honestly it'll make more of a difference for simulating Bumper Jumper (if Halo 2 ends up without new control schemes) than it will performing button glitches. Timing glitches right under pressure will still be the biggest source of risk vs reward. 

Frankly I'm a little underwhelmed by the controller so far - the hype is there, but if Halo 2 features Bumper Jumper and/or you're comfortable clawing then you really have nothing to worry about.

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I will be getting a Scuf One with 4 paddles, all for comfortability. Do I think it will improve how well I play(maybe a small degree, because I feel like my 360 Scuf helped), do I think I will magically start beating other players that are using a normal controller but are far more skilled than me? Definitely Not.

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I think it'll be funny when we find out MCC has completely re-mappable controls and this whole argument just goes out the window

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I have a scuf but im going to get the XIM4 so I can use my mouse and keyboard to destroy kids on the console. The xim4 releases end of this month!!

 

 

Does it?

 

 

XIM4!!!!

 

YESSS.jpg

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I think it'll be funny when we find out MCC has completely re-mappable controls and this whole argument just goes out the window

I believe they said mappable controller settings will not be happening for MCC, but you will be able to use controller schemes in games like H2 that were only present in H3+ such as Bumper Jumper.

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I believe they said mappable controller settings will not be happening for MCC, but you will be able to use controller schemes in games like H2 that were only present in H3+ such as Bumper Jumper.

 

So doesn't this mean that we'll be getting Halo 3's RB to reload anyway?

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