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iDrummerAVA

Forge improvements going forward...

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I was watching a gameplay on the Forge map Onyx from Halo 4... one of my favorite Forge maps ever and one that I happened to see come together over its course of development. I am a XBL friend of Hahkarazy so back in the day of THC, he would post some Forge maps and we'd play some test games on them and stuff... Haven't seen him online in a while unfortunately, he made some great maps, some he didn't even finish I don't believe, but it was definitely fun to get involved with the Forge community back then and run test games...

 

But being that Onyx is symmetrical, it got me thinking... How can symmetric Forge maps become easier to put together in the future? A lot of work goes in to making sure everything is near-perfect as possible, down to the virtual millimeter, but even then, it's just not going to be perfect. And I don't even Forge, I've messed around with it, but I really wish it was more intuitive and easier to use...

 

Now I've been in school studying mechanical engineering and CAD design for the last couple of years and I really think some elements from CAD software, if anyone is familiar with it, would greatly benefit Forge in Halo... Designing 3D models in CAD starts is actually primarily done on 2D planes, some of them used to simply project sketches, even 3D geometry, elsewhere in the 3D workspace. So I think it would really be fantastic if you could insert "planes" into your Forge map (similar to the grid piece except it isn't solid or even visible in-game), while in monitor mode, to mirror your Forge geometry around it. Instead of building an entire map, you can literally just focus on building half of it, get the geometry looking good, insert a plane, mirror... BOOM. Done. And you'd have the basis of a perfectly symmetrical map!

 

Also another cool addition would be a "circular pattern" feature, where you could select a Forge piece, set a frequency of how many copies to project around a set point, given a radius/diameter length and around the circumference of the resulting circular area... say you wanted 6 copies, you'd have 6 Forge pieces angled all at 60 degree intervals, around a center-point. Here's a basic example of how it works in CAD software.

 

 

Just a couple things that I really think would benefit Forge and make it a much more powerful map making tool... I don't think they'd be too hard to implement at all either, at least in terms of being user-friendly. It could totally work in Halo and I can see it being super easy to use!

 

EDIT: Oops... Sorry I see I should've posted this in the Forge Section... My bad.

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I think that would be amazing and change the way everyone uses forge today it would be a great idea and it would be amazing if it could happen!

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I would kill for a god damn physical box that you can manually resize, with a fairly neutral texture, and a few color options. It would make it way way easier to make maps, it would reduce or remove framerate issues by removing the number of objects in the scene, and it would make the maps more beautiful too.

 

It would also be great if the rotation options didn't have fucking gimbal lock. 

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Ive used Solid Works several times, back in high school nearly 4 years ago, and I LOVED what you could build with it. that would be a really sick and effective way to make new objects and templates for manual resizing.

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A PC counterpart would be ideal, would be much easier to use that the thumbsticks IMO.

 

You could then upload to your cloud or import to your console via USB.

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Have you tried far cry 3 's map editor?

This is what I thought when I finished reading the OP.

 

I do like the idea of inserting planes and using them to mirror an existing piece(s).

 

Still, if forge is going to improve they need to look at what the devs did with FC3's map editor first. Just being able to manipulate the landscape would change everything.

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That really sounds like a great idea!  I hope that Forge in Halo 5 can be powerful enough that 343 relies on it instead of map DLC.  Giving the community better tools to create and giving their own designers an easy way to more efficiently add new content without requiring a download.  Userbase fracturing problem solved!  (Map DLC could be replaced with aesthetic and singleplayer DLC)

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This is what I thought when I finished reading the OP.

 

I do like the idea of inserting planes and using them to mirror an existing piece(s).

 

Still, if forge is going to improve they need to look at what the devs did with FC3's map editor first. Just being able to manipulate the landscape would change everything.

There are three things to consider here.

 

1. Fc3 rendering engine can see clearly down in water. It's physics engine can handle boats and swimming. Yet it renders distance poorly. And they cant support vehicles in multiplayer. The two games function very differently.

 

2. This leads to appreciating how it would be entirely true that you can push through terrain on halo but not on fc3 and escape the map.

 

3. Halo dev maps suffer from escape points all over the place. Can you image the problems with custom maps?

 

I see no reason for 343 to abandon their current engine. So I see no reason to have escape free canvases. So I don't see a terrain editor.

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Ive used Solid Works several times, back in high school nearly 4 years ago, and I LOVED what you could build with it. that would be a really sick and effective way to make new objects and templates for manual resizing.

 

SolidWorks is a great program yeah, but it's kind of only the tip of the iceberg in the 3D-CAD world... Unigraphics and CATIA are much more powerful. Thing about SolidWorks is it's super user-friendly, which is what I love about it, but you get some experience in the others, and you can draft circles around a SolidWorks user! :lol: I wish I had the opportunity to start with it in high school though. That would've been awesome... We only had a 2D AutoCAD class, which bored me to death lol.

 

Another cool possibility though, that I wasn't able to include in the OP... Imagine using a circular-pattern feature with large Forge pieces, set to phase together, to create a base floor-layout with 4-way symmetry for example, and then you could continue to build from there. Then you could use it again with taller features, or orientate a piece differently to create some vertical features within the map, like walls that help segment it a bit, or whatever... Orientation of your pieces would be a big deal too... You could set your object orientation prior to setting the # of copies to project around the center point, and you would have infinite possibilities on how the geometry could change to affect the map's design.

 

I wonder if stuff like this has crossed the developers' minds... No doubt that they have these kinds of capabilities in their modeling software to create maps, and then some. I'm just not sure how similar it is, in application, to a CAD program...

 

I'll tell you straight-up... if they added a mirror capability and circular-pattern feature... just those features alone, I would use Forge WAYYY more than I ever have. They would allow for much cleaner maps to be built in a fraction of the time! Exponentially quicker!

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There are three things to consider here.

 

1. Fc3 rendering engine can see clearly down in water. It's physics engine can handle boats and swimming. Yet it renders distance poorly. And they cant support vehicles in multiplayer. The two games function very differently.

 

2. This leads to appreciating how it would be entirely true that you can push through terrain on halo but not on fc3 and escape the map.

 

3. Halo dev maps suffer from escape points all over the place. Can you image the problems with custom maps?

 

I see no reason for 343 to abandon their current engine. So I see no reason to have escape free canvases. So I don't see a terrain editor.

You're saying this like if I said, "343i should abandon their current engine and use FC3's."

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You're saying this like if I said, "343i should abandon their current engine and use FC3's."

Perhaps it came across that way. Sorry for any confusion. Just trying to point out that the engine they have used is most like the basis for those of future titles. So I don't see any major editor (tools) improvement. Besides their biggest needs for improvement isn't the tools actually.

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Perhaps it came across that way. Sorry for any confusion. Just trying to point out that the engine they have used is most like the basis for those of future titles. So I don't see any major editor (tools) improvement. Besides their biggest needs for improvement isn't the tools actually.

It's alright :)

 

Besides bringing back precision editing and fixing the magnet feature, I don't see the need for improvements either - tool wise.

 

I guess I should have been more to the point when I mentioned the landscape. My bad.

 

I was thinking more about the paint, road, and collection tools. Textures and whatnot...

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Perhaps it came across that way. Sorry for any confusion. Just trying to point out that the engine they have used is most like the basis for those of future titles. So I don't see any major editor (tools) improvement. Besides their biggest needs for improvement isn't the tools actually.

Halo 5 is running on a totally new engine (with the important parts of the old stuff incorporated, of course)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=112403080&postcount=2276

 

So obviously I don't know anything specific, but it's not impossible that it might be capable of things the old one never could do, and we might see features and tools that haven't been in halo because of the old limitations.

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Halo 5 is running on a totally new engine (with the important parts of the old stuff incorporated, of course)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=112403080&postcount=2276

 

So obviously I don't know anything specific, but it's not impossible that it might be capable of things the old one never could do, and we might see features and tools that haven't been in halo because of the old limitations.

It would be difficult for me to see how they would let go of megalo. But if they can keep it while completely replacing the rendering engine so we can see deep into the water that would be huge.

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Mirroring as Forge option would defiantly be very useful an take off a lot time and mirroring spawn points as well.  So trying to get everything perfect down to the dot manually is a thing of the past.  I don't Forge but I assume if someone is trying to make a map symmetrical weather 4v4 or 8v8 its probably a really big pain in the ass.  

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Mirroring as Forge option would defiantly be very useful an take off a lot time and mirroring spawn points as well.  So trying to get everything perfect down to the dot manually is a thing of the past.  I don't Forge but I assume if someone is trying to make a map symmetrical weather 4v4 or 8v8 its probably a really big pain in the ass.  

 

One of the perks of making asymms is not having to deal with that shit lol

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Mirroring as Forge option would defiantly be very useful an take off a lot time and mirroring spawn points as well. So trying to get everything perfect down to the dot manually is a thing of the past. I don't Forge but I assume if someone is trying to make a map symmetrical weather 4v4 or 8v8 its probably a really big pain in the ass.

Great point! Spawn points are kind of a big deal... lol

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Yes! These would be really helpful features!

 

I made a map on Forge World in Reach a few months ago with loads of different sized octagons for training, and I found it really time consuming just trying to get a load of perfect circles going. A feature like the ones you suggest would save a lot of time and energy. I wouldn't be surprised to see 343 implement stuff like this in Halo 5.

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