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The ignorant logic of a casual Halo player

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I stay away from other halo forums just so I don't have to read idiotic mental-gymnastics logic like Sephzilla's. No one seems to get that for all the complaining about the pistol that goes on, EVERYONE has one. I can't even finish typing this it's too blatantly obvious for me to spend a lot of time on.

 

Since GAF is full of nut-swinging developer apologists, they should at least be made aware of the fact that the Halo 3 "Tips" that showed while matchmaking was searching had a joke about how SMGs on Coagulation might not have been a good idea. They openly admitted it didn't work well and decided to laugh about it rather than realize that maybe they don't always have the best ideas for how to make competitively balanced gametypes. Hubris.

 

Not to mention all of the h2 matchmaking leaderboards were full of nothing but MLG players for the entirety of the time they existed.

bungie03.jpg

 

http://gamebattles.majorleaguegaming.com/forums/t/Official-MLG-Beta-Feedback-thread-7910065-p58

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BR/AR/DMR/Sword/SMG/CE Pistol/Rocket starts make no difference at all for 95-99% of people. The second it stops being fun is when matchmaking stops working and awful people have to match good ones. Close games are fun for everyone involved no matter the skill level.

 

BR start games are fun for bad players who still manage to go 16-12. Nearly all of the hatred of BR or DMR starts in Halo comes from people getting goosed and deciding it was the weapon's fault instead of their skill level. People are quick to blame anything but themselves and gametypes and settings that more clearly separate better players are quickly blamed.

 

AR start does begin to matter a lot more at very high levels of play, but honestly, if you make MATCHMAKING work and it fixes most of the "problems" between casual and competitive.

 

Yep. It's funny, Bungie never gave a fair shake to the idea that the player should start with a pistol / BR style weapon. It still hasn't been tested, so everybody just assumes that casuals won't like it. Which is ludicrous when you consider that Halo CE is what started the franchise. Halo 2's release broke records BECAUSE everybody loved Halo CE and thought it was so amazing. I'll never understand where the idea that casuals didn't like it came from. Everybody was a casual when they started playing CE, and they all loved it. 

 

Whenever a reasonable starting weapon has been implemented in matchmaking, it has always been in an alternative playlist, which creates the branching effect that we all know and hate. Not to mention, there was a selection bias: if you went over to the Hardcore playlist, the pool was exclusively composed of advanced players. So your chances of trying and enjoying the hardcore playlists were low, if you were a noob.

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Yep. It's funny, Bungie never gave a fair shake to the idea that the player should start with a pistol / BR style weapon. It still hasn't been tested, so everybody just assumes that casuals won't like it. Which is ludicrous when you consider that Halo CE is what started the franchise. Halo 2's release broke records BECAUSE everybody loved Halo CE and thought it was so amazing. I'll never understand where the idea that casuals didn't like it came from. Everybody was a casual when they started playing CE, and they all loved it. 

 

Whenever a reasonable starting weapon has been implemented in matchmaking, it has always been in an alternative playlist, which creates the branching effect that we all know and hate. Not to mention, there was a selection bias: if you went over to the Hardcore playlist, the pool was exclusively composed of advanced players. So your chances of trying and enjoying the hardcore playlists were low, if you were a noob.

Worst part? Now it's too late. Those opinions are now entrenched and cannot be easily overcome. I personally think giving the option for a headshot-rifle in every playlist was the best part about Halo 4. But then again look at H4's numbers; it doesn't make me feel really confident in the future.

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i cant believe some of you halo philosophers are still going at it 

 

:'((((((((((((

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Worst part? Now it's too late. Those opinions are now entrenched and cannot be easily overcome. I personally think giving the option for a headshot-rifle in every playlist was the best part about Halo 4. But then again look at H4's numbers; it doesn't make me feel really confident in the future.

Regardless of starting with a headshot rifle in H4, the core gameplay isn't Halo anymore. Where's OS? Where's Camo? Where's the timed weapons? Where's the respawn timer for dying? Where's traditional KOTH?

 

It's not because of a weapon...trust me.

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The best way to get through to someone like this is play 2 games against pros.

 

The first game they spawn with SMG's and get beaten 50-1

 

The next game they spawn with BR's and get beaten 50-10

 

Then ask they why they think they got more kills when they spawned with a BR and actually demonstrate just how difficult it is to "easily find a BR" when they've got players that know how the spawning system works decimating them before they can even walk 3 steps.

 

Then link them to this video:

 

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I agree that SMG/AR starts are not good for competitive play, but that doesn't mean they dont have their own place in the game.

 

By advocating for all the play-lists in the game to start with a BR by default, you end up sounding just as ignorant as people who only want AR starts in default play-lists.

 

The fact is H2/H3 did have SMG/AR start play-lists, and the people who prefer that play-style have a right to play what they like as well even if its not 100 percent competitively balanced. AR starts is "classic Halo" IMO.

 

BTB for one is a bigger team game-type not based on individual battles and more on Sandbox diversity, that may benefit in some player's eyes of having SMG starts or at least the option for one.

 

I dont see anything wrong with the "casual" wanting SMG/AR starts in the game, just as I dont with MLG players wanting BR starts with no radar regardless of their logic.

 

 

Completely agree. Looking back through my nostalgia goggles, I remember just as many entertaining and close games with SMG/AR starts in Halo 2/3 matchmaking as I do with BR, and I'm a competitive player. I will always choose BR games now if given the chance in Halo 3/4 matchmaking, but a huge part of the make-up of Halo in general is the diversity of weapons, and utilizing what you have in the space that you have to maximum effect. BR or DMR starts is just too sterile and cold for the 80% of people that have occupied matchmaking in the past and are not considered "hardcore". There just needs to be playlists that support everyone's needs and we'll get along. Just as Halo Reach/4 took too many steps towards casuals, we need to make sure that this release doesn't make the same mistake by going too far the other way. 

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Not everyone has a competitive mindset, and people make their assumptions on reasoning on what makes a halo game competitive. E.g. Sprint Speeds up Gameplay, need bigger maps? ...ect

 

I mean If I were to play SSBM, I'm a casual, Just give me a map and a character, idgaf what settings just let me play/kill something.

I mean that's why there are customs where you can start with swords and AR stars right?

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You could title this thread, "The ignorant logic of a competitive Halo player." and you would see no difference in the responses you're getting.

 

Well maybe a couple of, "I play this game for eight hours a day so I know what I'm talking about" posts.

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Not to mention, there was a selection bias: if you went over to the Hardcore playlist, the pool was exclusively composed of advanced players. So your chances of trying and enjoying the hardcore playlists were low, if you were a noob.

^^ this.

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The best way to get through to someone like this is play 2 games against pros.

 

The first game they spawn with SMG's and get beaten 50-1

 

The next game they spawn with BR's and get beaten 50-10

 

Then ask they why they think they got more kills when they spawned with a BR and actually demonstrate just how difficult it is to "easily find a BR" when they've got players that know how the spawning system works decimating them before they can even walk 3 steps.

 

Then link them to this video:

 

 

Perfect example of this in halo would be Flinch vs Descope and the Sniper. 

 

Amazing video, casuals will still brush it off though.

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You could title this thread, "The ignorant logic of a competitive Halo player." and you would see no difference in the responses you're getting.

 

Well maybe a couple of, "I play this game for eight hours a day so I know what I'm talking about" posts.

How bout this, I watch and talk about Halo for 8 hours a day so I know what I'm talking about. 

 

I watched the Extra Credits video and loved it, now I'm watching more on their channel. 

 

I've talked about this before our community is like a child, when the developer(Parent) gives options to their first game(child) example the pistol the first child loves the pistol he wants to have it every day. Then the second game comes out there is a new baby and that baby loves his new toy the Battle Rifle(and/or SMG) , but the CE child lost his pistol "mommy where did you put my toy?" developer said "we threw it out." On and on till H4 and future titles 

 

This split the community in unnecessary ways, that is when this all casual competitive what weapon to start with debate began; and it wont ever end unless 343 kicks everyone ass and says here is the starting weapon for every future title of Halo  

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I said if he wants to be mean, he could say that. It was supposed to be taken as a joke, not literal. I really didn't think I would need to explain that or put an emoticon somewhere in my post for people to realize a comment was facetious. 

You meant it as a joke but the fact that it was meant to be funny shows the division in the community. I also cannot hear your sarcasm, so oh well...

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Disagree with your opinion means he's ignorant?

 

k.

from the words of Boss Nasti "Can you prove it" 

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Worst part? Now it's too late. Those opinions are now entrenched and cannot be easily overcome. I personally think giving the option for a headshot-rifle in every playlist was the best part about Halo 4. But then again look at H4's numbers; it doesn't make me feel really confident in the future.

 

I have similar concerns, but I will say don't underestimate the power of default settings. The majority of people play the first thing that comes up (Halo 4 was so out of whack that Big Team ended up dominating, but generally the rule applies), and consider anything else to be deviations, for better or worse, from how the game "should" play. I'm hopeful that if the default Halo 5 settings are decent, complaints from your average player won't be overbearing. If anything, we'll see that wonderful "adapt" argument come back, only this time it will be slightly less painful since what we're supposed to adapt to isn't complete garbage.

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Any of you guys familiar with team slayer playlist in Halo 2? Remember Team duals on foundation dumbest gametype ever and people would just sit on the turret the whole game. Every playlist should start with a precision weapon unless it's grifball, action sack, or snipers.

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The best way to get through to someone like this is play 2 games against pros.

 

The first game they spawn with SMG's and get beaten 50-1

 

The next game they spawn with BR's and get beaten 50-10

 

Then ask they why they think they got more kills when they spawned with a BR and actually demonstrate just how difficult it is to "easily find a BR" when they've got players that know how the spawning system works decimating them before they can even walk 3 steps.

 

Then link them to this video:

 

 

The video talks about making a game offer interesting options to players who are on the receiving end of a weapon. What you are describing is having that weapon in everyone's hands. These are NOT the same thing at all. They are irrelevant to each other.

 

EDIT: thanks for clarifying your point. If spawning with SMGs is handing everyone a spawn kill weapon then you are right.

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Perfect example of this in halo would be Flinch vs Descope and the Sniper.

 

Amazing video, casuals will still brush it off though.

Flinch v descope is an excellent example of counter play. Invoking flinch on a player is no fun to the player being flinched as it offers poor counter play mechanics. Descope offers much better counter play options.

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I will never understand why they went away from starting with a decent ranged weapon. Every single person I know that played Halo CE played Slayer Pro and I never heard a single complaint. If people just started with the BR and SMG in halo 2 I guarantee we would never have to have the argument about starting weapons again.

 

God, fuck shiska and especially fuck lukems. The one thing I can say, whether Halo is ever good again or not, is that I am glad Bungie is no longer in control of it. The developers at Bungie (at least IMO) were cocky as fuck and never wanted to listen to the people that actually played their game, especially towards the end. All lukems and others did at Bungie was make fun of the competitive community. If they could of at least taken some of the feedback they were given over the years Halo would be in a better place.

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Completely agree. Looking back through my nostalgia goggles, I remember just as many entertaining and close games with SMG/AR starts in Halo 2/3 matchmaking as I do with BR, and I'm a competitive player. I will always choose BR games now if given the chance in Halo 3/4 matchmaking, but a huge part of the make-up of Halo in general is the diversity of weapons, and utilizing what you have in the space that you have to maximum effect. BR or DMR starts is just too sterile and cold for the 80% of people that have occupied matchmaking in the past and are not considered "hardcore". There just needs to be playlists that support everyone's needs and we'll get along. Just as Halo Reach/4 took too many steps towards casuals, we need to make sure that this release doesn't make the same mistake by going too far the other way. 

 

This is a problem with the sandbox, not BR starts.

 

Games wouldn't feel sterile if half the sandbox wasn't worthless, redundant, or inconsistent.  I know games of CE don't feel boring, because every weapon is so useful in its own way.  And that game only had five viable weapons to pick up, in addition to the two you spawned with.  Imagine if Halo 3 had bothered to do that with its sandbox.  Instead, we got a game that essentially only used four weapons on the competitive level.

 

Halo needs a versatile utility weapon off spawn.  That's correct Halo.  Every other weapon should be excellent at a specific thing or two.  We've only had that once, and it was amazing.

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