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So if someone from outside the competitive community asked you........

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A 90s OS in halo 4 got rejected by the large majority of the comp community......pretty safe to say that CE won't be embraced lol

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A 90s OS in halo 4 got rejected by the large majority of the comp community......pretty safe to say that CE won't be embraced lol

90s 2 layers or a 90s 1 layer?

 

regardless, ce won't be embraced for other reasons. getting absolutely destroyed by rockets and plasma rifles will have folks crying for a nerf

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Can you? I've been looking for someone who can commentate high level CE gameplay and keep player entertained and informed. It's not easy to go over nade points or catch the all the different randoms.

Dude, I've been playing H1 since 2001.  My first tourney was in 02.  I may not be the best player in the world but I can follow what they are doing and why and I like to think I've got the personallity for it.  I'd actually really love to put out some of my own gameplays and commentate them as a learning tool for newer players.  Maybe put some of the less played maps out there.  Everyone has a Pris, Hang Em, or Dammy vid.  I bet some H1 noobies would want to learn how to make lesser players cry by beating them 50-5 on wizard or derelict.  Or just get some real life strat to some lesser played maps like Longest or Rat Race.

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A 90s OS in halo 4 got rejected by the large majority of the comp community......pretty safe to say that CE won't be embraced lol

It will be embraced by anyone who when dominated at an activity strives to understand why and how. Then enjoys the process of  getting better to avoid such an unpleasant experience. 

I don't care if that number is 10 people or 10,000 people because the ones that do it are the kind of people I want to be around.

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Anyone that thinks H1 won't be embraced might be surprised.  I mean, I'm speaking for myself here but I tried very hard to embrace what the other Halo games brought to the table.  I love the ease of online play, HD monitors, HDMI cables, headsets, custom controllers, a freaking scoreboard on the HUD, lol.

 

My point is, there are lots of reasons to play different Halos, and I've played them all, but I always go back to H1.  Why??  Because it's the best.  To eleborate, it's the most fun because it gives you so much power.  I think every Halo player in the world puts that disc in to get on a Halo match and do some really cool shit and just own someone.  H1 allows players to do that better than any other Halo period, it's not even close.  H1 is a different category of badassery while every other Halo game has kinda stayed a bit closer to that, teamshot, camp, push as a team, etc.

 

What it needs is a decent ranking system that matches you against similiarly skilled players and a netcode with minimized lag because if it feels like a shitty XBC connection half the time people won't play it.  As long as you have those two things people will naturally wanna play H1 more and more, because being a badass is fun and H1 makes you the biggest badass.

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I'd be willing to give it a shot.

 

Please do! I have no experience with it but would like to give it a shot. I don't do well with live commentary but with some planning I feel I can explain and break things down pretty well. My knowledge of h1 is pretty strong, but not nearly as strong as I'd like it to be. 

Yea....its kinda terrible how far we have fell off in terms of competitive value. Ppl are too content with just BRs, rocket, snipe and midship. The game needs to alot more depth than that as a competitive title.

 

I fuckin suck at SFIV....but i love it....i live how much I have to work at the game to get a level above sucking. The depth of the game is ridiculous. Im overwhelned with how i have to learn and its a beautiful thing, because i dont want a fighter that i can pick up and challenge top players in a month, thats just silly. SF ptofessionals are some of the most skilled competitive gamers out there...im in awe everytime they pull off combos that involve cancelling and quick inputs based on frame data. Salute to them.

 

That's cool. I just got played some SF4 last night. Lost the disc but have the Free for Gold ULTRA version and was dominating. I was always a Ken fanboy  growing up, and Gran Calc taught me a tiny bit of Boxer, but Dictator is definitely my main.

 

However, it's awesome yet disappointing to read the bold. It's a mindset I love hearing about, but one I have seen little of throughout the years. It's awesome you found a game that gives you some rewarding gameplay. It's just sad that so many people, you included, had zero interest in trying out those other competitive shooters. I know Shooters =/= Fighters, but I just want to see more of that mentality out of people for a change.

Dude, I've been playing H1 since 2001.  My first tourney was in 02.  I may not be the best player in the world but I can follow what they are doing and why and I like to think I've got the personallity for it.  I'd actually really love to put out some of my own gameplays and commentate them as a learning tool for newer players.  Maybe put some of the less played maps out there.  Everyone has a Pris, Hang Em, or Dammy vid.  I bet some H1 noobies would want to learn how to make lesser players cry by beating them 50-5 on wizard or derelict.  Or just get some real life strat to some lesser played maps like Longest or Rat Race.

 

Like I said to Hardway, please do! I know you, I know your experience. I think I even know where you live lol. I'd love to see what you have Yoseph. The whole issue comes less from who has the knowledge of H1, and more of who has the personality to pull it all off. I'd just love to see an updated guide with commentary. 

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Most competitive gamers I know of from playing so many games are complex and even sometimes hypocritical.  I think many competitive gamers feel forced to play lesser skilled games because that's where everyone else is.  Let's be honest, most players get good or want to get good because they want to be better than others and a good portion want to pubstomp.  That's common sense and it's never going to change.  My happiness is going to come from someone else's expense and if I'm really good it's going to come from a lot of people's expense.  Back then casual gamers were forced to essentially deal with being competitive gamers bitches.  Every and any game they decided to play they would get owned by those better than them.  Now that the casual gamers have games to run away too,a good portion of competitive gamers to at least try to continue their pubstomping have to leave to the casualized games.

 

It's honestly funny when you think about it.  A good portion of competitive gamers aren't really competitive gamers at all.  They just want to get good enough to pwn the majority and thus this cycle never ends.  A minority of competitive gamers actually play because they want to compete and be the best they can be.  Most just want to be like those people they see on youtube and pwn.

 

 

 

So much this.

 

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So basically...competitive halo players have become soft or are they just a product of their environment and game?

 

Boy, do I have an article for you.  Getting ready to submit it to Cyren right now, actually.

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CE feels a lot better put-together than 2 does, to me.  It has a better art style, none of the guns feel useless, it has a less constricting FOV that doesn't give me headaches, and it's less glitchy in general.  an amazing feat for a launch game.

 

and besides multiplayer, it has a better story/campaign, and somehow, even though they were made with incredibly rudimentary tools and animations in comparison, I think the direction of the cutscenes is far more unique and interesting in CE than in Halo 2.  the pacing of them feels a lot less one-note and hokey, and it's just way more stylish in general.  that Private Jenkins segment is legendary.

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Boy, do I have an article for you.  Getting ready to submit it to Cyren right now, actually.

 

can't wait

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I think it just has a lot to do with contrasting points of view. A lot of people that prefer CE like it because of the ability for the best players to backpack, where people that prefer H2 normally enjoy the team aspect of it. I personally have always liked the team aspect better because I think it requires a wider array of different skills. In CE communication is somewhat important, but lets be real, it's all about your pistol/power weapon control. H2 requires a good shot/power weapon, ability to pull off the occasional button glitch, and much more coordinated teamwork. I think both games are great, never played either at a super competitive level, but played enough to feel confident forming an opinion on which game I prefer. I don't think if you like H2 you are automatically a noob who was too young for CE, and I don't begrudge anyone who feels that CE is better. I believe it comes down to personal preference and I prefer my Halo to be the San Antonio Spurs (teamwork) than the Miami Heat (Lebrogre2)

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Yea....its kinda terrible how far we have fell off in terms of competitive value. Ppl are too content with just BRs, rocket, snipe and midship. The game needs to alot more depth than that as a competitive title.

 

 

I was so pissed off with the Halo community since H3 because of this bullshit.

 

I tried Forging maps to be interesting. Putting an OS on the top level of Construct, putting a Camo down the bottom, putting more weapons and power ups on maps. Want to know how well that paid off? Well I'd estimate 0 people ever tried out my settings and maps even though I put hours into making the maps interesting and forcing map movement. Why? Because apparently Australian Halo 3 players that weren't even top 8 material refused to play anything that wasn't shoved down their throats by MLG, even though the MLG maps weren't ever that great since Halo 2.

 

Invite people into a party to try out a cool map I just downloaded? "WTF is this shit, put TS on The Pit"... We're talking about people that never stood a chance against the best teams and weren't competing at an MLG tournament, yet for some reason they HAD to play MLG maps only and nothing else.

 

I very quickly gave up trying to introduce players to anything new.

 

I also love how all these "pro" players were crying out for the BR in Halo 4 as if Halo WAS the BR... I'm sorry, you forgetting the pistol from Halo 1? Yes, lets take the weapon that has a longer kill time and a spread at long range over a weapon that can actually keep the sniper rifle in check... Seriously... WTF?

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I think it just has a lot to do with contrasting points of view. A lot of people that prefer CE like it because of the ability for the best players to backpack, where people that prefer H2 normally enjoy the team aspect of it. I personally have always liked the team aspect better because I think it requires a wider array of different skills. In CE communication is somewhat important, but lets be real, it's all about your pistol/power weapon control. H2 requires a good shot/power weapon, ability to pull off the occasional button glitch, and much more coordinated teamwork. I think both games are great, never played either at a super competitive level, but played enough to feel confident forming an opinion on which game I prefer. I don't think if you like H2 you are automatically a noob who was too young for CE, and I don't begrudge anyone who feels that CE is better. I believe it comes down to personal preference and I prefer my Halo to be the San Antonio Spurs (teamwork) than the Miami Heat (Lebrogre2)

 

Have you played CE? the way spawning works takes more teamwork than team-shooting and calling out in in every halo sequel combined...forcing a teammate to spawn above or below you or randomly across the map away from danger takes a lot of teamwork and map knowledge...nading  weapons to teammates takes more tweamwork than calling out and team-shooting. Communication is also key...try playing derelict without communicating, spawning and nading weapons to yourself or your teammate...you might not get a single kill. Also Halo 1 had button glitches that you had to master and they were more important (quick camo/backpack reload) than any glitch in halo 2. You didn't need to double shot everything you see to be effective in Halo 2, but try running around shooting in CE with camo without using the quick glitch...easy pickings. Also, having a good shot in halo 2 means aiming towards your opponent and letting the auto aim takes over, aiming is easy in halo 2...both the BR and sniper have way too much auto aim...CE is lightyears ahead of H2 in terms of aiming...It does come down to preference and both games offer a unique experience. You don't need to prop up halo 2 by saying it takes a bunch of qualities to be good and only listing a few for CE, it makes you look uneducated about how CE works while showing bias to H2. Both are great games, but one is better than the other.

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Have you played CE? the way spawning works takes more teamwork than team-shooting and calling out in in every halo sequel combined...forcing a teammate to spawn above or below you or randomly across the map away from danger takes a lot of teamwork and map knowledge...nading  weapons to teammates takes more tweamwork than calling out and team-shooting. Communication is also key...try playing derelict without communicating, spawning and nading weapons to yourself or your teammate...you might not get a single kill. Also Halo 1 had button glitches that you had to master and they were more important (quick camo/backpack reload) than any glitch in halo 2. You didn't need to double shot everything you see to be effective in Halo 2, but try running around shooting in CE with camo without using the quick glitch...easy pickings. Also, having a good shot in halo 2 means aiming towards your opponent and letting the auto aim takes over, aiming is easy in halo 2...both the BR and sniper have way too much auto aim...CE is lightyears ahead of H2 in terms of aiming...It does come down to preference and both games offer a unique experience. You don't need to prop up halo 2 by saying it takes a bunch of qualities to be good and only listing a few for CE, it makes you look uneducated about how CE works while showing bias to H2. Both are great games, but one is better than the other.

It's four in the morning, the leaving out of mechanics and skills is not an attempt to downplay the skills necessary to be a good CE player, but rather a time saver/being tired as fuck. I'm not trying to prop either game up or slight CE by any means. You interpret it that way because you are on the hunt to find anyone saying something bad about CE. As I said, it's personal preference and in my opinion, If we are assuming that it is going to be 2's on CE and 4's on H2, coordinating a team of 4 will always require more teamwork than a team of 2.

 

If we are expanding the argument to playing 4's on CE then I will revisit my opinion, but as for now, I stand behind it.  I do find it a little amusing that you would bring up bias while having a H1 signature and blatantly stating that one game is better than the other after admitting a sentence earlier it is about preference. To each their own though. sleep tight. 

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It's four in the morning, the leaving out of mechanics and skills is not an attempt to downplay the skills necessary to be a good CE player, but rather a time saver/being tired as fuck. I'm not trying to prop either game up or slight CE by any means. You interpret it that way because you are on the hunt to find anyone saying something bad about CE. As I said, it's personal preference and in my opinion, If we are assuming that it is going to be 2's on CE and 4's on H2, coordinating a team of 4 will always require more teamwork than a team of 2.

 

If we are expanding the argument to playing 4's on CE then I will revisit my opinion, but as for now, I stand behind it.  I do find it a little amusing that you would bring up bias while having a H1 signature and blatantly stating that one game is better than the other after admitting a sentence earlier it is about preference. To each their own though. sleep tight. 

 

I had no agenda with my post...i'm just saying if you're going to state things about either game...be fair...how do you leave out ce having glitches that meant something but then list h2 having glitches that players needed to be good at? it was 4 in the morning and you wrote all of that, poor excuse fam...just keep it real with me. Anyway, both are great games and you can't go wrong with either choice based on how you choose to play halo or what you find enjoyment in...I also said one is better than the other because anyone who played both or know the specifics of both games will tell you in an instant...CE is a more competitive game, that's just facts.

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CE feels a lot better put-together than 2 does, to me.  It has a better art style, none of the guns feel useless, it has a less constricting FOV that doesn't give me headaches, and it's less glitchy in general.  an amazing feat for a launch game.

 

This is so true. Everything in Halo 2 is some dull shade of brown. It looks older visually than CE does, I think.

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This is so true. Everything in Halo 2 is some dull shade of brown. It looks older visually than CE does, I think.

Yeah, its not like Hang em High, Rat Race, Derelict, Longest, and Wizard are all shades of grey right?  :kappa:

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Have you played CE? the way spawning works takes more teamwork than team-shooting and calling out in in every halo sequel combined...forcing a teammate to spawn above or below you or randomly across the map away from danger takes a lot of teamwork and map knowledge...nading  weapons to teammates takes more tweamwork than calling out and team-shooting. Communication is also key...try playing derelict without communicating, spawning and nading weapons to yourself or your teammate...you might not get a single kill. Also Halo 1 had button glitches that you had to master and they were more important (quick camo/backpack reload) than any glitch in halo 2. You didn't need to double shot everything you see to be effective in Halo 2, but try running around shooting in CE with camo without using the quick glitch...easy pickings. Also, having a good shot in halo 2 means aiming towards your opponent and letting the auto aim takes over, aiming is easy in halo 2...both the BR and sniper have way too much auto aim...CE is lightyears ahead of H2 in terms of aiming...It does come down to preference and both games offer a unique experience. You don't need to prop up halo 2 by saying it takes a bunch of qualities to be good and only listing a few for CE, it makes you look uneducated about how CE works while showing bias to H2. Both are great games, but one is better than the other.

Quick Camo was at least a little bit intended. Each weapon has a modifier to change how fast a weapon goes back into camo after being fired. This is understandably a lot time for automatic weapons due to how fast they fire in comparison to other weapons.

Whether or not Bungie intended for players to keep an AR to quickly go back into camo after firing a Sniper shot is up to debate.

 

 

Yeah, its not like Hang em High, Rat Race, Derelict, Longest, and Wizard are all shades of grey right?  :kappa:

I preferred the dull steel for what Halo 1 was; basic.

Halo 2 just went and made everything gritty and made of stone. This is just a nitpick, but I hated how cramped everything in Halo 2 felt. It's like Bungie was against walkways where 2 players could comfortably walk alongside each other.

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I was so pissed off with the Halo community since H3 because of this bullshit.

 

I tried Forging maps to be interesting. Putting an OS on the top level of Construct, putting a Camo down the bottom, putting more weapons and power ups on maps. Want to know how well that paid off? Well I'd estimate 0 people ever tried out my settings and maps even though I put hours into making the maps interesting and forcing map movement. Why? Because apparently Australian Halo 3 players that weren't even top 8 material refused to play anything that wasn't shoved down their throats by MLG, even though the MLG maps weren't ever that great since Halo 2.

 

Invite people into a party to try out a cool map I just downloaded? "WTF is this shit, put TS on The Pit"... We're talking about people that never stood a chance against the best teams and weren't competing at an MLG tournament, yet for some reason they HAD to play MLG maps only and nothing else.

 

I very quickly gave up trying to introduce players to anything new.

 

I also love how all these "pro" players were crying out for the BR in Halo 4 as if Halo WAS the BR... I'm sorry, you forgetting the pistol from Halo 1? Yes, lets take the weapon that has a longer kill time and a spread at long range over a weapon that can actually keep the sniper rifle in check... Seriously... WTF?

 

Yep, I experienced the same thing. People reacted really negatively to things feeling 'goofy', but nobody ever wanted to give it a chance to let the metagame develop and actually try to succeed, to see if it actually ended up being hard to master. They just automatically saw that you'd added something they weren't used to and were like nope fuck you. 

 

Looking back, I realize that it has a lot to do with people's motivation to play games. There are a million games in the world that take skill and smarts both, but only a few that have thousands of people clamoring to be considered the BEST at those skills. Even minor changes to the mainstream gametypes are changes enough, so people feel like they're just dicking around instead of actually competing. If people didn't have reason to believe that there would be standardization around a gametype, why play it? It will just be masturbatory. A lot of people think about it that way, and it's really a small minority of people that are interested in designing the metagame, rather than participating in it.

 

My motivation to make maps therefore always had to be framed in building a map that got put onto the MLG circuit. But pretty soon I realized that that process was a fucking joke, and the gametypes they chose went from bad to worse, which killed the impetus to really perfect your map since it was only going to be forge enthusiasts playing it. And even there, it was hard to find people who cared about making something that played well. I put a lot of effort into trying to get people interested in map movement and power weapon control. I won a few hearts and minds, and the really proficient forgers did start to see the light and move towards more H1-style gameplay. But every day you'd sign on and there'd be a new map that was Midship. 

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So much this.

 

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Trust me I could write an entire article about how the majority of competitive gamers aren't really competitive gamers.  It's a topic I have had experience with since I started online competitive gaming with the first Quake.

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i absolutely agree with this, the problem is this generation of gamers are impatient want to be rewarded instantly from the first time they play (ex. CoD) it took years for players to reach a high level in hce.  i hope the players that didn't experience hce on lan or xbc stick with it and want to compete.

I think the problem is getting a good functional ranking system in place. If you play against equal players you won't find yourself getting the short end of a high learning curve game.

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I think the problem is getting a good functional ranking system in place. If you play against equal players you won't find yourself getting the short end of a high learning curve game.

That's the problem.  People feel like their entitled to have a fair playing experience when in all honesty you don't deserve anything until you get better at the game.  Matchmaking based systems ruined online gaming IMO.  Casuals don't feel like they have too get good anymore just to win a single match.  Without the necessity of getting better, the gamers feel entitled to win without putting any work or effort into the game.  Lesser skilled players need to pay their dues like we all had to back then.  You win when you get good and lose forever until you do.  Otherwise there is no true reason to get good in games in the first place.  

 

If I'm just going to win and lose the same amount as someone who sucks then the game is a waste of time to play.  I get better to do better, not be punished and shunned into a small minority bracket and forced to only play a few select players because the rest of the community can't be bothered to deal with playing better players.

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