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Which game will dominate?

Which game will dominate?  

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  1. 1. Which game will dominate?



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I love CE but 2 is definitely better IMO and will earn it's higher population. CE does have it's issues like bad spawns and well, I prefer not to have to lead my shots with an overpowered pistol. I wouldn't count out CE's population either, I think it will give H3 a run for it's money. HD 60fps ded. servers will make H1 VERY popular. There is a big sleeping CE community and I personally know a lot of people who would rather play H1 than any other Halo especially with these upgrades. 1v1,2v2, BTB who knows what playlists we will get for it. PLUS those PC maps

  :gandhi:

 

 

An over powered pistol? U wot m8? That over powered pistol is by far the single most skillfull utility weapon featured in all of the halo games.

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An over powered pistol? U wot m8? That over powered pistol is by far the single most skillfull utility weapon featured in all of the halo games.

The pistol was COMPLETELY overpowered. There's no way anyone can argue that.

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#CRS

#LobbyBackOut

#Jetpack

#sprint

 

Long list of stuff I dont like

 

I can only think that side of the disk will have a very low population.

GG Halo 4

DAS DAT SHIT I DON'T LIKE

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The pistol was COMPLETELY overpowered. There's no way anyone can argue that.

 

Lolz. You know nothing Jon Snow.

 

 

Before you start reading the breakdown, I want to point out that the purpose of this thread is to clear up any confusion about the Halo: CE Pistol and its role in the sandbox. At the end of this breakdown, you'll see a few quotes I've made in other threads. I'm making this thread with the hopes that we can have some discussion and hopefully clear up the false perception put into people's minds by Bungie ever since Halo 2. I'll talk a little bit more about that specifically after this breakdown.

 

Please read it all before you post. There is no TL:DR because I feel this false perception of CE's sandbox is still going on after so many years.

 

\\==========

 

 

It's beautiful. So much meta game, so much depth for player growth, yet with so much accessibility. The shots are being aligned within the reticle and they're adjusting based on their strafe/movement to lead shots; they're lining up their reticle by predicting for leads, not spamming (just in case anyone thinks that). It's precision shooting at its finest, FUN and consistency.

 

:04 - Players spawn in a classic CE face-off. Patch takes 7 shots to kill the first guy while OGRE 2 covers him.

:09 - Patch gets into a shootout with enemy 2 and loses. OGRE 2 gets better positioning and spawn kills the first guy. Predicting the movement of enemy 2, OGRE 2 throws a grenade by the Camo to get the Double Kill.

:20 - Patch goes for OS and covers himself with a grenade.

 

Take note of these battles because there has yet to be a single 3sk, from any of these high level players. Also, there's no motion tracker but the awareness is high. It all comes down to knowing the maps and understanding the flow of combat; something gained naturally through experience.

 

The match continues as you can clearly see the coordination between both teams. OGRE 2 and Patch have the upper hand by maintaining top control (map control was essential in CE as was the power of an individual player).

 

:37 - OGRE 2 uses grenades to lure them out. Grenades played a pivotal role moreso in CE due to the lack of total weapons. Golden triangle of Halo anyone? Sure they were nukes, but they had a long fuse time (could be better balanced by not allowing 4 of each type).

:41 - Enemy team shoots another Rocket but misses. That's just part of the game; OGRE 2/Patch has better map control and the enemy is fighting hard to gain control. It was harder to do this in Halo 2 onward because of the BR, the power to gain control diminished for the individual player as the demand to teamshoot skyrocketed instead of it being a benefit. Power plays were severely gimped after CE.

:43 - Notice Patch's movement. He's confident in his jumps/positioning because they know where the enemy is. He predicted their movement based on the situation, and even led them to where he wanted (teamwork with OGRE 2 helped this).

:52 - Patch continues jumping around on the catwalks, shooting at the enemy below him. Still no 3sk in this game. The other team is fighting hard and it's still a close match despite maintaining top control.

 

Take note that teamwork, along with the power of the CE Pistol combined with the powerful weapons in general allowed for crazy come backs unlike later Halo games. Why? Because of map control and the power of an individual player in combination with teamwork. Halo 2 killed this with the BR (longer kill times, the requirement to teamshoot and inconsistencies) and generally watered down sandbox (comparatively).

 

:57 - Look at this 1v1. Stare at it. It's beautiful. 3sk? Nahhh.. Spamming? Nahhh.. Pay attention to where Patch leaves his reticle as he's moving to the right, just before he dies. That's a skill-based weapon that was extremely satisfying to use. Look how many shots it took the other guy to get ONE HEADSHOT on Patch. One.

1:00 - It's only been a damn MINUTE?! OGRE 2 hangs around OS because he knows it's about to spawn; powerup timing. This could be better conveyed through later Halo 5 by having a tutorial section within the game explaining all these details.

1:06 - OGRE 2 grabs the OS and makes a power push, and it pays off. Map control, powerup control, teamwork, no superfluous nonsense, Halo.

 

Also take note that OGRE 2 or Patch never had control of the Rocket, that overpowered monster, but they were doing so well because of teamwork and map control. It's important to keep pointing this out.

 

Jumping ahead:

1:45-1:55 - Patch & OGRE 2 grab the Snipers. Seconds later, you can see how difficult it was to use. High level players, not landing headshots with the Sniper or 3sk's with the Pistol. Skill-based weapons that were extremely FUN to use. No one complained about these things throughout those 3 years of CE. Bungie put that shit in people's minds and now some run with it.. It's incredibly disappointing.

2:03 - OGRE 2 goes for OS.

2:10 - OGRE 2 throws a grenade by the ramp just in case someone might be there. Map awareness, no motion tracker, smarter gameplay decisions, more FUN for everyone, higher quality matches.

2:13 - OGRE 2 gets the Rocket and misses. Patch is trying to cover him and clean up that kill, but the enemy has some great movement, jumping around and strafing, keeping himself alive.

2:17 - The enemy's teammate sees the action and predicts OGRE 2's movement, so he throws a grenade and kills him, causing OGRE 2 to drop the Rocket.

 

No motion tracker.

 

2:51 - Before this, there was a slight slow-down period as both teams were trying to gain control. The enemy team had the Rockets, Patch & OGRE 2 know this. Patch predicts that the enemy will come up that ramp, but misses his Sniper shot. That alerts the enemy's teammate (the guy carrying the Rocket) of Patch's position as he fires one off in his location, killing Patch.

2:55 - OGRE 2 pushes to clean up that guy at OS to maintain map control.

2:58 - The Camo/Rocket guy pops out and kills OGRE 2, covering his teammate and knowing that it's important that they try to gain map control over OGRE 2 & Patch. 

 

Teamwork. No motion tracker. Map awareness. Still no 3sk or Sniper headshots.

 

3:01 - Patch gets a good spawn and retaliates up top by throwing a grenade at the spawning OS, killing the Rocket guy. Powerup timing and experience.

3:06 - OGRE 2 spawns and goes straight for Camo. Make note of the AR/Camo trick I mentioned the other day, how you could activate it faster by shooting an AR bullet. Had there been a Rocket, OGRE 2 would've dropped the Pistol and kept the AR/Rocket because of this useful trick. Remember what I said about increasing a weapon's role in the sandbox by giving it unique traits? Balance.

3:18 - OGRE 2 attempts a shortcut by jumping up that little lip, but fails. Jumps were crucial to CE/earlier Halo games. AA's in Reach/4 killed the importance of this with Jet Pack and sprint.

3:41 - The enemy spawns right in front of OGRE 2's path. He double melee's him, but almost kills himself in the process. Risk/reward unlike Halo 2's double melee which didn't require a grenade. A far less broken button combo.

 

Speaking of button combos, take note of how these players are reloading their weapon then switching at some points. That's backpack reloading; XXY.

 

3:47 - Look how fast the AR wrecks Patch's shit. Patch just had a good path to escape and didn't bother engaging because he would've been fighting a losing battle, despite him having the Pistol. A second later the AR guy cleans him up anyway.

 

Map control and knowing your weapon's strengths.

 

3:51 - OGRE 2 makes a successful jump to get up top and shoots the enemy first. Camo being put to work, no motion tracker, movement was not deliberately gimped in this game. Devs forcing OP motion tracker down our throats in MM really hurt the quality of matches, despite what those in favor of motion tracker say. Sound-based radar is a better compromise if default MM has to have it.

 

Watch this Pistol fight. OGRE 2 shoots the enemy first, but the guy was able to turn around and out-Pistol OGRE 2, causing him to back off. That's what I want out of Halo 5's shootouts. That enemy would've been dead in any game after CE. The CE Pistol provided players with a chance.

 

4:20 - Patch sees OGRE 2 in a fight and shoots a Rocket in the area where he thinks the enemy is, scoring the kill. No motion tracker, just map awareness and teamwork.

4:59 - The first 3sk from OGRE 2 & Patch's perspective. OGRE 2 hangs out there as Patch gets the Sniper, waiting to see where exactly the enemy spawns.

5:34 - You're about to see beautiful Pistol skills. Look at how OGRE 2 makes subtle movements to the reticle to aim for the headshot, then once again at the guy by OS. Leading shots. Beautiful.

5:47 - OGRE 2 engages the enemy while having Camo, but doesn't land a 3sk. The enemy retaliates and out-Pistols OGRE 2. Once again, beautiful. Any game after CE that enemy would've more than likely been dead.

5:50 - Patch grabs the Sniper and tries to get a headshot, but doesn't get a headshot. The enemy quickly retaliates and kills Patch. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but this is the reality of Halo CE. Not this BS many of people think it is..

6:05 - Patch.... DROPS THE PISTOL! Why? Because he picked up Camo and Rocket, so he kept the AR to activate it faster. What was that about the Pistol being the only weapon used? What was I saying about increasing the viability of weapons by giving them unique traits? I'm not speaking out of my ass guys.. It also activates faster by switching to the AR, not just shooting a bullet. 

 

The match continues and the final score is 50-20. Sure they won by 30 kills, but you can see how close the game was in terms of shootouts/battles. It's just that throughout the match, OGRE 2 & Patch had superior map control, they dominated the Powerups and had more effective movement. Matches in this game were won and lost quickly, not to mention OGRE 2 was one of the best ever and he couldn't land consistent 3sk's (if any) during a ~7 minute match.

 

CE could've been improved with tighter movement and many of the unquestionable improvements we have in Halo today (Red X's, Halo 2 introducing a better system for power weapon/Powerup timing (IMO) because look how many kills in this match weren't from the Pistol, but instead from Rockets and Powerups/Pistol, better visual feedback like in Reach, etc. etc.).

 

CE was the best accident to happen to first person shooters on console. I'll drop everything professional/career-wise in my life right now if it meant I could make a difference for this franchise. I'm not trying to cause any harm, I'm trying to open some minds. I fully realize I'm in the extreme minority of people who understand CE on a fundamental level, so it's extremely disappointing to still see people in high positions like Frankie making jokes about the CE Pistol. I will never quit you, despite all the hate you seem to have for something I hold so dear. Save the Pistol through the DMR if you must.

 

Again, this was one one. single. match.

 

In all seriousness, comparing CE to halo 2 is like comparing Checkers to Chess.

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Lolz. You know nothing Jon Snow.

 

 

In all seriousness, comparing CE to halo 2 is like comparing Checkers to Chess.

Then I would rather play checkers and have a much more fun time doing it. Just because a game takes more skill then the other doesn't make it better. Halo 2 still takes more skill then Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4, COD, and BF.

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Then I would rather play checkers and have a much more fun time doing it. Just because a game takes more skill then the other doesn't make it better. Halo 2 still takes more skill then Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4, COD, and BF.

 

Thing is, it doesn't even beat CE in the fun factor. No Lockout TS stalemates in CE.

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The pistol was COMPLETELY overpowered. There's no way anyone can argue that.

Dude, it was not over powered. It was hands down the most rewarding weapon, and it was a weapon everyone started with. I love how people think they are going to run around 3 shotting people in CE. They have a rude awakening coming.

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An over powered pistol? U wot m8? That over powered pistol is by far the single most skillfull utility weapon featured in all of the halo games.

Yes, it's overpowered (on accident by Bungie). Oh I agree it takes the most skill, I prefer not to have to lead my shots though.

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Thing is, it doesn't even beat CE in the fun factor. No Lockout TS stalemates in CE.

Not to me. I had more fun playing Halo 2 and never had a Lockout TS stalemate.

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Thing is, it doesn't even beat CE in the fun factor. No Lockout TS stalemates in CE.

How fun you think it is, is highly subjective.

 

But there's no way CE was more fun than H2, lol sorry buddy. It's hard because to compare them properly you have to remember what each game had back then. H2 had matchmaking, clans, bigger better maps/graphics, headsets, button glitch meta, the list goes on.

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You have it backwards. 

Typo. You know what I meant.

 

Yes, it's overpowered (on accident by Bungie). Oh I agree it takes the most skill, I prefer not to have to lead my shots though.

 

Claiming the CE pistol is over powered just illustrates that you don't know CE. Bungie didn't do any thing by accident. They can claim that they never intended CE MP to be so popular or that it was an accident, but it wasn't. No masterpiece like that ever happened by accident. Bungie subconsciously created a masterpiece in Multiplayer console FPS gaming with Halo CE, just because they weren't consciously aware of it doesn't mean that it was an accident.

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Not to me. I had more fun playing Halo 2 and never had a Lockout TS stalemate.

Now you're just lying or you didn't play much Halo 2. Go and watch some H2 Vod archives, the footage is riddled with stale mate Lockout TS snoozefests.

 

How fun you think it is, is highly subjective.

 

But there's no way CE was more fun than H2, lol sorry buddy. It's hard because to compare them properly you have to remember what each game had back then. H2 had matchmaking, clans, bigger better maps/graphics, headsets, button glitch meta, the list goes on.

 

Yes, fun is subjective, true, but I feel as though Halo CE was without a doubt the most fun Halo game. Matchmaking and clan/social features have nothing to do with this discussion. We're discussing raw gameplay here, not social features. Headsets? Lol, what's that got to do with gameplay mechanics? Bigger, better maps? There's hardly a weak map in Halo CE and Blood Gulch is better than any big map in Halo 2.

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Any one else actually slightly pissed off that CE will have a lower population than Halo 2? Like yea, I'm ecstatic I finally get to play CE properly online with matchmaking and stuff, but there's some thing that irks me about a vastly inferior game getting all of the spot light and attention.

 

Who knows, maybe when all of the H2/H3 kids finally get a taste of CE, they too will realise just how inferior and weak they are compared to the goat. You just can't beat that raw CE gameplay, nothing else compares.

You're not alone. The thing is most halo players now grew up with Halo 2. The rest gave up on the series long ago or just simply grew up. No one seems to remember how abysmal the game they were playing was until the next disappointment came out. The backlash and hate Halo 2 received...now apparently it's the gold standard. You would have been laughed out of the room a few years ago if you even mentioned Halo 3 in the same sentence as Halo 2. I'm sure the majority of people you ask will now say Reach was a good game, we all know how it really went down before Halo 4 hit the scene. People won't take very kindly to losing 50-0 for very long.

 

I'm not saying Halo 2 is a terrible game, I had a lot of fun with Halo 2 back in the day but personally I prefer Halo 1. I understand why people gravitate towards Halo 2 though. Now Halo 3/4, that's a different story.

 

I feel like this is very fitting:

 

AsicEoZ.jpg

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Claiming the CE pistol is over powered just illustrates that you don't know CE. Bungie didn't do any thing by accident. They can claim that they never intended CE MP to be so popular or that it was an accident, but it wasn't. No masterpiece like that ever happened by accident. Bungie subconsciously created a masterpiece in Multiplayer console FPS gaming with Halo CE, just because they weren't consciously aware of it doesn't mean that it was an accident.

It's not a CLAIM, it's a FACT. Bungie admitted it multiple times in interviews and Vidocs.that it was an accident. It you do something you weren't aware of, that is called doing something accidentally. I've been playing since CE launched so...I do know.

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Now you're just lying or you didn't play much Halo 2. Go and watch some H2 Vod archives, the footage is riddled with stale mate Lockout TS snoozefests.

Ohh I played a lot of halo 2 and watched quiet a bit of VOD. But that's is professionals playing and all 8 players know how to run setups correctly. Lockout TS stalemates didn't happen as often as you make it out to be.

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Now you're just lying or you didn't play much Halo 2. Go and watch some H2 Vod archives, the footage is riddled with stale mate Lockout TS snoozefests.

 

 

Yes, fun is subjective, true, but I feel as though Halo CE was without a doubt the most fun Halo game. Matchmaking and clan/social features have nothing to do with this discussion. We're discussing raw gameplay here, not social features. Headsets? Lol, what's that got to do with gameplay mechanics? Bigger, better maps? There's hardly a weak map in Halo CE and Blood Gulch is better than any big map in Halo 2.

You were talking about which Halo is more fun between 1 and 2. If you wanted to compare the gameplay itself, I get that. I was comparing each games multiplayer as a whole, with all features. MM/Clans were a blast, headsets opened up a whole new level of communication and player interaction. There are a few non competitive maps and bigger ones that weren't so great, but yes most were amazing. Again it's subjective, but I prefer many BTB maps in Halo 2 compared to CE. I think pretty much every single H2 map was really good except a few, very close to CE.

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You're not alone. The thing is most halo players now grew up with Halo 2. The rest gave up on the series long ago or just simply grew up. No one seems to remember how abysmal the game they were playing was until the next disappointment came out. The backlash and hate Halo 2 received...now apparently it's the gold standard. You would have been laughed out of the room a few years ago if you even mentioned Halo 3 in the same sentence as Halo 2. I'm sure the majority of people you ask will now say Reach was a good game, we all know how it really went down before Halo 4 hit the scene. People won't take very kindly to losing 50-0 for very long.

 

I'm not saying Halo 2 is a terrible game, I had a lot of fun with Halo 2 back in the day but personally I prefer Halo 1. I understand why people gravitate towards Halo 2 though. Now Halo 3/4, that's a different story.

 

I feel like this is very fitting:

 

AsicEoZ.jpg

 

People don't realise that the birth of the H2 BR was the death of the most skillfull and amazing utility weapon to ever grace console FPS games. People were furious that the pistol was removed and this new battle rifle was included in Halo 2. Now people think H2 is the best game of the series and the BR is legendary.....Like you said it's because they don't know any thing else, they grew up with Halo 2 and the battle rifle, that's all they know. A chimp could learn how to 4 shot with the Halo 2 Battle Rifle.

 

I'm not trying to bash Halo 2. Hey, it's a fun game, and as far as social features goes, it revolutionised console online gaming, period, It gave birth to the goat Halo map - Midship and it had other good things going for it which added depth to the gameplay - button glitches etc. I'm not trying to rip on the game, it is solid and lots of fun, but it isn't CE.

It's not a CLAIM, it's a FACT. Bungie admitted it multiple times in interviews and Vidocs.that it was an accident. It you do something you weren't aware of, that is called doing something accidentally. I've been playing since CE launched so...I do know.

 

Doing some thing subconsciously doesn't mean it was an accident. Plenty of great inspirational people throughout history have admitted that they have created their material and masterpieces without even really realising it, like they were being guided by some other force. John Lennon from the Beatles for example - he admits this. No masterpiece in this world is ever an "accident", period.

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I feel like this is very fitting:

 

AsicEoZ.jpg

I've never seen this but I love it. We need an updated one for Reach/H4

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Typo. You know what I meant.

 

 

Claiming the CE pistol is over powered just illustrates that you don't know CE. Bungie didn't do any thing by accident. They can claim that they never intended CE MP to be so popular or that it was an accident, but it wasn't. No masterpiece like that ever happened by accident. Bungie subconsciously created a masterpiece in Multiplayer console FPS gaming with Halo CE, just because they weren't consciously aware of it doesn't mean that it was an accident.

It was made more powerful at the last minute by Jason Jones. You could call that an accident.

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Doing some thing subconsciously doesn't mean it was an accident. Plenty of great inspirational people throughout history have admitted that they have created their material and masterpieces without even really realising it, like they were being guided by some other force. John Lennon from the Beatles for example - he admits this. No masterpiece in this world is ever an "accident", period.

You and I will never know if it was subconscious, that's purely speculation. I believe I read/heard they messed with some sort of damage setting and it made it a 3 shot. I've heard multiple account of it being on accident, not on purpose, however you want to word it. Believe what you will, but It's not like god or the guardians of FPS secretly through the force swayed their hand to make an overpowered 3-shot god pistol, "The greatest most graciously skillful weapon in FPS history". We get it your a Halo 1 kid as I am a H2 kid. It was great back then but the skill gap was too big and harsh.

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It was made more powerful at the last minute by Jason Jones. You could call that an accident.

 

I'm aware of this and I wouldn't call it an accident. SOME THING told him to make the weapon more powerful at the last minute, he didn't just do it for no reason, whether he was consciously aware of it or not.

 

Putting aside the greatness of the Pistol, even then you have expertly crafted maps that the Bungie team created. They were all "accidents" too though, of course. Nonsense. The collective unconscious of the Bungie MP team tapped into some thing greater than themselves when they created Halo CE Multiplayer.

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