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Future of Forge

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You actually think the reason we only have forged midships in competitive settings is because of the forgers?

Well, SaLoT made onslaught...

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You actually think the reason we only have forged midships in competitive settings is because of the forgers?

Unless a player is holding a gun to a forgers head, ya!

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yea.... no, the light mapping actually improved performance but also ruined textures.. halo reach had dynamic lighting which cause a lot of performance issues and was a nightmare to deal with.

Wat?

 

Reach had lighting affects? Dynamic? Never noticed any shadows. Are you talking about light objects?

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Unless a player is holding a gun to a forgers head, ya!

Then you arent looking hard enough. There are a shit ton of excellent creative maps for 2s and 4s. Just because MLG players only play on 2 base 2 tower maps made by Salot doesnt mean thats the forgers fault, thought you would be smart enough to see that. The likes of achunk, Warholic, Fated, Schnitzel, Nitro, Waiho were all excellent forgers who made excellent designs, not there fault all their designs got rejected by the competitive Halo community in favour of all the Salot maps we hae seen over the year.  Most of them have left forge and went onto different things map/game related wise. To call them unoriginal and bad at forging is a slap in the face to all of them.  Go look at the maps I used in GP Reach and Halo 4, so man awesome maps. Hell, even check out the designs in Halo 1.5 like Downrush.

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Give us the tweaked engine and people can make building blocks and place them in the engine :D

Than USB to xbone, copy to H2A storage and LETS GOOO, we gonna see master piece maps.

 

Maybe even Firefight custom maps who knows they could give us the ability too.

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Yeah I imagine that one of the major improvements to the game that we'll see is for Forge mode to become a full map editor with terrain editing and all that good stuff.

Even though Far Cry has been doing it for ages now, it has never had interesting gameplay or interesting custom game options to make the map editing worth it beyond an aesthetic nature. For Halo to combine its gameplay options with a proper map editor would be something to really get excited about as far as I'm concerned, and would probably be quite a big selling point for the game.

 

It'd be awesome if forge takes a huge step up in Halo 5, but you know what would be even better?  Not even needing forge in Halo 5 due to great on-disc maps.

I'm going to have to completely diagree with this. Forge is useful for so much more than filling a void where there is a lack of quality in the on-disc maps. It's also useful for creating custom game maps and aesthetic maps, which have been a huge part of what's made Halo so fun since Halo 3.

 

What would really be even better is for the on-disc maps to be great and plentiful, and for an awesome Forge mode that can be used for other purposes. Both are incredibly important and there's no reason to assume that one somehow negates the other.

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The next iteration of Forge needs to accomplish 3 things:

 

-More tools and freedom

-More opportunities to share and discover content

-More accessibility

 

PLANNING

• There can be stock terrain maps in the game, but there needs to be a completely blank canvas with a default skybox. For starters, players need a tool to "draw with a rough wireframe" and lay down the simplest designs before ever needing to put a block down. When the frame is complete, it should generate a soft gray mesh, similar to modelling clay. We can run around on this mesh and tweak its paths and sightlines. If I have a simple layout in my head, this will allow me to "mesh-it out" very quickly. Manipulating objects in 3D takes a lot of time if you don't have anything in mind, so it should help forgers tremendously to see a rough 3D version of their paths before hand. Some of us have made due with sketch pads and software like Google Earth up till now, but it'll give Forge a big advantage if it can accommodate this (arguably the most crucial) phase of design. 

 

BUILDING

• Once I'm settled on a design, I can then attribute different kinds of geometry to this mesh. Grass, Sand, Rock, Snow, Metal, Forerunner etc. I can highlight key places and increase the density or mix the terrain to suit my needs. If I need fauna, I'd draw grass and choose from a variety of trees. Maybe I'd dig into the mesh and create caves, and then populate the caves with sound FX like the sound of water dropping from the roof. I could even draw a stream running through this cave. It's important that I be allowed to make changes even after I've assigned terrain to the map, and I should be able to remove or replace terrain too. 

 

• I like the prefab method to Forge, but it needs an overhaul. All of the pieces should be that same blank gray scheme at first. There should be Default, Human, Covenant, Forerunner and Natural palettes to choose from. Selecting any of the pieces should bring up an option to change their textures and permutations. If I build 3 separate Covenant maps, they'd look completely different even if they used the exact same pieces. Other skins could included battle damage or weathered. 

 

• Pieces should allow for scaling, grouping, triming, copying and pasting. If a wall is too big, It should let me lop off the parts I don't need. If I need a curved ramp, I should be able to draw a ramp in that location and have the engine fill it in.

 

• To promote content sharing, players could create and share their own custom set pieces either with stock pieces or with the wireframe. We'd group the piece, name it and share it through file shares. Forgers can then download this piece that I made to their hard drive and use it on their maps. Similar to map files, a custom piece will show the original author besides its name under its options.

 

ATMOSPHERE

• There should be dozens of different skyboxes to choose from. We can then change the lighting source and intensity within those skyboxes. Weather effects with an intensity slider would be good too (rain, snow, clear, fog, etc.). Another important one for me is ambiance. Ambiance has a big effect on the map, especially for players using headsets. There should be different map ambiances (wildlife, forerunner hum, space battle, flood, blank, etc.).

 

SPAWNING

• Forgers should have absolute control over how spawns function on the map. Allow us to change weights, zones, player influence, and player boundaries so that the map doesn't have any holes going on behind the scenes. 

 

• Would help if there was a way to instantly preview a spawn point or camera that I place down.

 

GENERAL

• There should be a way to change the color of a man-cannon's stream.

 

• There should be switches that spawn objects in or out. 

 

• We could place hill markers in specific parts around the map and label them to create callouts.

 

• We could also assign parts of the map to groups (like layers) and hide, delete or translate entire groups.

 

• Maps should have custom pictures that are shown in the lobby. Players should be able to report this picture if it does not give a proper view of the map or if it shows inappropriate content. 

 

• Maps should require at least one tag when uploaded to file shares. Its name and author should be automatically tagged.

 

• Instead of a budget meter, there should be a performance meter that shows the map's framerate and lighting integrity. This will let players know if the engine can handle what they're building. It's very easy to overload a map even if you don't reach the budget, so I don't think budget is a very honest limitation. There could also be a frames-per-second meter near it. 

 

• There should be tutorials in-game to help players understand everything I've written above.

 

• And for the love of all things Halo, enough with the stupid Monitor sound. I don't need to hear Guilty Spark buzzing in my ears. 

 

______________________________

 

Yes, it needs to be a full-fledged map maker, but if they're going to do it through PC then they shouldn't bother. Accessibility should be the most important thing. The only thing I'm weary about going this route is that it'll be a bit more difficult to find quality maps since most of them will be visually appealing. I wish there was a way to educate Forgers (including myself) more on gameplay so we'd have a better understanding going into Forge. 

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I really hope they can have like a map editor on the computer that you can create files and upload onto your fileshare, and download high resolution versions of the map onto your xbox one. This would make creating maps so much  easier. There would be like a hundred skyboxes that you can pick from, hundreds of textures for objects, the diversity for custom maps would be so much greater.

Building Halo Maps is not a Easy process like with Forge... Its way more complicated.

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I agree completely @@Goat . We talked about the clay idea before and i think that would be amazing.

 

Everything you mentioned is what i hope is added.

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Wat?

 

Reach had lighting affects? Dynamic? Never noticed any shadows. Are you talking about light objects?

 

it means the lighting was rendered in real time instead of being pre rendered like all lighting in h4. remember all the object tone glitches and stuff on forge island? that'd be why.

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Forge needs to accomplish 3 things:

 

-More tools and freedom.

-More opportunities to share and discover content.

-More accessible.

Man, if they really could make this that would be some super epic.

But yeah, your kinda asking them to create a entire new map edit software into a game which is particially made with a map edit software (or whatever it is called)

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Then you arent looking hard enough. There are a shit ton of excellent creative maps for 2s and 4s. Just because MLG players only play on 2 base 2 tower maps made by Salot doesnt mean thats the forgers fault, thought you would be smart enough to see that. The likes of achunk, Warholic, Fated, Schnitzel, Nitro, Waiho were all excellent forgers who made excellent designs, not there fault all their designs got rejected by the competitive Halo community in favour of all the Salot maps we hae seen over the year. Most of them have left forge and went onto different things map/game related wise. To call them unoriginal and bad at forging is a slap in the face to all of them. Go look at the maps I used in GP Reach and Halo 4, so man awesome maps. Hell, even check out the designs in Halo 1.5 like Downrush.

Then why do I keep hearing people say they want another midship remake? It tells me that forgers haven't come up with a better design. Otherwise the better design would be more popular. But I do see your point.

 

And why the attack?

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it means the lighting was rendered in real time instead of being pre rendered like all lighting in h4. remember all the object tone glitches and stuff on forge island? that'd be why.

Perhaps it did but it wasn't anything compared with h4.

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Then why do I keep hearing people say they want another midship remake? It tells me that forgers haven't come up with a better design. Otherwise the better design would be more popular. But I do see your point.

 

And why the attack?

The attack was because you are part of the forge community, so you should be able to see the maps that people are designing, and they are certainly not midship remakes from the good forgers I mentioned, not the likes of those who make basic remakes to get on to the competitive circuit.

 

Who is wanting another midship? Its only the higher end players who like them because they can relate easily to the map, and translate their existing skill sets on maps that have 2 towers, 2 bases and a connecting top mid bridge structure with no power weapons, or, if Salot made it they give it a chance. And why does there have to be a "better design", maps should be varied in their characteristics. 

 

And no, better/innovative design does not mean most popular, at all. Otherwise maps in the IG settings, Dispatch, Simplex, Onyx and bloody Station 9 would not be popular. They arent popular because AGL kids are connoisseurs of map design.

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Perhaps it did but it wasn't anything compared with h4.

yea, h4s lighting was definitely better then reachs. too bad everything else was a downgrade.

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Otherwise you make a good point.

You should make a thread in forge and ask them. Im sure there will be some who agree with you

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Why midship? Why not something original? Why are competitive forgers convinced that midship is the only competitive design possible?

 

Why do competitive forgers lack innovation?

 

What is wrong that they can't forge something better than midship?

 

Can't they come up with Bettership?

C'mon man, it's Doju. Gotta see that sarcasm.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUcs_Cj-hIg&t=20m0s

Seeing as they're making a new engine there should be a massive overhaul to Forge. I'd like to see design pushed with a block based system like Reborn (starts talking about map design at 20:00) with intelligent texturing similar to Project Spark but with the familiarity and functionality of Forge.

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I agree completely @@Goat . We talked about the clay idea before and i think that would be amazing.

 

Everything you mentioned is what i hope is added.

 

I hope at least half of that comes true. The least likely to happen is wireframing and custom pieces, but everything else is a natural evolution of what we can already do. 

 

I think the Performance Meter will be the biggest thing though. Players need a better indication of how their map is handling in the engine, and the Budget meter leaves too much ambiguity. 

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C'mon man, it's Doju. Gotta see that sarcasm.

I know, I know, I just can't help myself. Every time I hear someone suggest bring back midship I flip.

 

 

 

 

I hope at least half of that comes true. The least likely to happen is wireframing and custom pieces, but everything else is a natural evolution of what we can already do. 

 

I think the Performance Meter will be the biggest thing though. Players need a better indication of how their map is handling in the engine, and the Budget meter leaves too much ambiguity. 

I don't know exactly what the performance meter would measure, but it would simply be nice to see the frame rate displayed in the bottom corner. If it is running at a smooth 60fps, then it should just read 60fps. If it dips it should just show the lowest number for a few seconds. That way we have an objective means of saying how good our maps are.

 

 

I have other suggestions in my video... wait for it....

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I know, I know, I just can't help myself. Every time I hear someone suggest bring back midship I flip.

 

 

Is that because you arent very good at the map?

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