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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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The first time to me when overtexturing became and issue and you noticed that simplicity wasn't valued as much anymore was when Hang'em High was remade in Halo 2 and when that godaweful map Blackout came out during Halo 3. At the time they only put too many details on the surfaces but the importance of simplicity eroded even further when maps like Ghosttown were created. A lot of the Reach maps were actually fine in terms of complexity (even though they weren't suited for competitive gameplay for several reasons) but Halo 4 took crappy, overcomplicated, overtextured map design to a whole new level. And now its becoming even more Codlike. Not Godlike, Codlike. It's the opposite of godlike.

Its funny that 343 say theyre bringing H5 back to 'arena gameplay' when the maps are everything but arena maps. Its as if theyve never played an arena shooter before.

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People's standards will have gotten really low if what you're saying here becomes the popular opinion. Saucey how bad does it need to get for us before it hits rock bottom in your mind?

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People's standards will have gotten really low if what you're saying here becomes the popular opinion. Saucey how bad does it need to get for us before it hits rock bottom in your mind?

 

I think MCC being broken was already rock bottom my friend. 

 

 

We are in it, right now. 

 

 

I also think rock bottom was during the whole AGL fiasco and Halo 4. 

 

 

True rock bottom would be Halo 5 releasing and nothing works, but since it is not being outsourced to a bunch of other companies (I hope), then it should be fine.

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Its funny that 343 say theyre bringing H5 back to 'arena gameplay' when the maps are everything but arena maps. Its as if theyve never played an arena shooter before.

 

I disagree. Empire, Truth and Regret I'd definitely consider arena maps. They're all small-medium sized symmetrical maps.

 

Eden belongs in CoD and the Breakout maps I just think suck because the gametype doesn't even belong in Halo to begin with.

 

Rankin was one of the most popular 1v1 maps in UT2K4 and the map is pretty large by Halo standards. (Yes, I realise the movement in UT is way faster, but my point remains)

 

 

You can't tell me Truth isn't an arena map but this is.

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Once blops3/waw2 is released there goes all your sprint/spartan ability fanboys Josh/Quinn/343. History repeats itself, this game will die

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Honestly, i think this is a great opportunity for the forge community to step up and create some great fresh maps. The aesthetic (from what we've seen) is pretty awful, but i think bending the rules a bit we can still make some decent-looking, amazing to play maps, and really create an enjoyable, competitive custom games experience.

Maybe even host community tournaments? We need to make the best of what we have.

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Unfortunately as others have said this is simply not enough, I understand Saucey's point of view as he just wants halo to be around for the sake of team beyond.
But honestly we all know that halo 5's population will drop immensely after 2 months and the fact the MCC was such a failure they can't ride off of broken game and expect big numbers. They are playing it safe and making the wrong calls by appealing it to the casuals.
Sprint, ADS, Large unattractive maps, clamber, thruster ect are just horrible for halo and do enhance the experience at all. 

I sold my xbox one this week which was mentally quite depressing, I played so much halo on the 360 and consider myself a very die hard fan of halo but I can't continue to support this company and the fact that they continue to release games that aren't what the competitive or really what any fan of halo wants is just not good enough.
I hope for the sake of the people that stuck around that they fix MCC and maybe if it ever gets fully fixed I'll consider buyer an xbox one, even though it looks incredibly unlikely.

Goodbye for now halo ;(

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Unfortunately as others have said this is simply not enough, I understand Saucey's point of view as he just wants halo to be around for the sake of team beyond.

 

 

Dude, I am saying it because it is actually a step forward. 

 

 

No matter how you look at it, no matter what negatives come with a toggle option, this is what is important: they budged on a subject that everybody thought was set in stone. 

 

 

 

That is called progression. 

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Dude, I am saying it because it is actually a step forward. 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you in that regard.

I just feel like I can't support a small gesture as an improvement, does that make sense?

I loved Reach NBNS and I can see how you see h5 as a good game in that regard and you're probably right, just for me personally I wanted more than that in a halo game.

I played reach competitively in Australia for 2 years and I can just see the community dying after a year so in halo 5 which makes me feel sad because it could just be so big you know?

I hope for everyones sake that it at least gets to a stage where it can be better than reach NBNS and that we can see some great matches like in reach.

 

 

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I disagree. Empire, Truth and Regret I'd definitely consider arena maps. They're all small-medium sized symmetrical maps.

 

Eden belongs in CoD and the Breakout maps I just think suck because the gametype doesn't even belong in Halo to begin with.

 

Rankin was one of the most popular 1v1 maps in UT2K4 and the map is pretty large by Halo standards. (Yes, I realise the movement in UT is way faster, but my point remains)

 

 

You can't tell me Truth isn't an arena map but this is.

I'm sorry but, especially in terms of messy sightlines and map geometry, it just doesnt make me think its an arena map.

Im talking more in terms of aesthetics and map geometry, not necessarily the layout and flow. I mean you saw the pre-art-team skeleton of Truth right?

 

At its core, like i said, it had a map flow and layout of a typical (but stretched) halo map, but as soon as the art team added garbage map geometry, poor lighting, extreme gradients on everything and general overdesign, it becomes a bastard map that really reminds me of most popular squad shooters. And i have that opinion for all the Halo 5 disc maps.

 

Also, with Rankin (and UT2K4 in general), as you said, the high movement speed does make a massive difference to compare. When i benchmark a halo map, I do so against the size and scale of the Halo 1/2 competetive maps. The scale of Truth compared to midship, imho, is fucking ridiculous. it competely changes the way the map plays. Changing movement speed might help but it doesnt stop it being a garbage, messy, squad shooter-like version of midship.

 

And yeah, breakout is trash

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I'm not disagreeing with you in that regard.

I just feel like I can't support a small gesture as an improvement, does that make sense?

I loved Reach NBNS and I can see how you see h5 as a good game in that regard and you're probably right, just for me personally I wanted more than that in a halo game.

I played reach competitively in Australia for 2 years and I can just see the community dying after a year so in halo 5 which makes me feel sad because it could just be so big you know?

I hope for everyones sake that it at least gets to a stage where it can be better than reach NBNS and that we can see some great matches like in reach.

 

 

 

So you agree that it is a step forward, but you can't support a small gesture as an improvement?  I do not follow that line of thinking.

 

That is all Halo / gaming is my man when dealing with a developer. Several small gestures turn into one big improvement.  It takes time for community feedback to make it to the people who actually call the shots, and even more time if they disagree with the feedback. So it can be a slow painful process, and as you can see it wont happen at all once. 

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I have an honest question. Why happens if the recent changes to H5 sprint / movement speed actually make the game balanced, enjoyable, and competitive?

 

Will anyone on here actually admit to that?

 

It's OK to say you won't but it's good for thought for everyone who posts on this forum.

 

EDIT: The reason why I mention this is because this reminds me of BO2 and the inclusion of score streaks. Literally, no one thought it would work and it would make the game less competitive as well as more random. That was proven not to be true and in turn we had one of the most diverse Esports experiences on console (imo of course).

 

Again, food for thought.

Yes. I would be overjoyed to have a game that was fun to play. I have love for every competitive game and appreciate balancing in any genre. If i'm good or bad at the game it doesn't matter. The title of the game doesn't matter. The only reason I ever posted negative things about MCC/H5/H4/Reach was because they simply haven't been balanced well and shit all over what worked and what was fun before. They're all, with the exception of MCC, an attempt at reinventing the wheel. They failed. If they succeed with H5 somehow it'll be great. Right now though they're easily on the path to being another H4.

 

Its the story of every Halo game. Bungie changed the FPS landscape with CE and 2 on console. H3 was a change with forge/theater but it didn't have the same massive changes because it didn't divert as much from H2. They tried it again with Reach and blew it. Since then we've been having carry over failed ideas and pet projects from Reach with a few new fails.

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So you agree that it is a step forward, but you can't support a small gesture as an improvement?  I do not follow that line of thinking.

 

That is all Halo / gaming is my man when dealing with a developer. Several small gestures turn into one big improvement.  It takes time for community feedback to make it to the people who actually call the shots, and even more time if they disagree with the feedback. So it can be a slow painful process, and as you can see it wont happen at all once. 

I said it was an improvement, just not enough to change the game drastically to where we need it to.

What you say does make sense but I don't feel like I should accept a small change considering how far the game is from even being associated with a halo at it's core.

Most of the core elements still in the game are not halo and in my eyes never will be. 

 

I can see how you see myself and others as just complaining and ringing the same bell, but to be fair the last 2 halo's haven't even been close to what we wanted in a halo game. As you and countless others have said in the past we wanted a classic halo game and this isn't it.

 

Good on them for putting in a sprint toggle option, one step forward 10 steps backward is not productive.

Man I sound so cynical these days what happened ! 

You did this to me 343 ... haha

 

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Changing movement speed might help but it doesnt stop it being a garbage, messy, squad shooter-like version of midship.

Unfortunately this is how maps will always be now in AAA titles, except for small niche indie games. If Halo 5 Truth looked like Midship people would write off the game for using 2005 graphics.

 

I actually thought the maps were good for the most part. My biggest issue was the lighting and a bit of tidying up would be nice, eg. Some of the foliage on Regret was blocking LOS which will hopefully be fixed and the LOS top mid should be opened up a bit more.

 

The actual design of Truth, Regret and Empire is probably the best map design since Halo 2.

 

You'll probably find the maps in UT4 have a lot more detail than UT2k4. The current map in Toxikk is far more detailed than other arena games but the map still plays well.

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Looking at the replies they are not getting it still. I do however agree with that one guy that said that Sprint being in H4 was not the main reason the population dropped so fast. For me it was lack of good maps, lack of playlist options, no ranks etc...

 

Problem is that the maps for H5 are looking to be pretty bad too so I don't think getting rid of Sprint is good enough.

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Unfortunately this is how maps will always be now in AAA titles, except for small niche indie games. If Halo 5 Truth looked like Midship people would write off the game for using 2005 graphics.

 

I actually thought the maps were good for the most part. My biggest issue was the lighting and a bit of tidying up would be nice, eg. Some of the foliage on Regret was blocking LOS which will hopefully be fixed and the LOS top mid should be opened up a bit more.

 

The actual design of Truth, Regret and Empire is probably the best map design since Halo 2.

 

You'll probably find the maps in UT4 have a lot more detail than UT2k4. The current map in Toxikk is far more detailed than other arena games but the map still plays well.

Of course people would write it off if it had 2005 graphics, but that wasnt really what i meant. You can still have great graphics, amazing looking maps with simple and smooth map geometry. The Pit, Guardian, Countdown, Beaver Creek & Prisoner (Reach) are great proof of that. 

 

In terms of looks i find every map 343 has done is just way too busy, just like every design of everything theyve ever done.

 

And honestly to a certain degree, i have the same kind of feeling about toxikk, from what ive seen. Especially with lighting and player visibility. Its just a pet peeve of mine, taking to the extremes with H5. And i havent seen much of UT4 but we'll see how that pans out.

In fact one of the reason i loved H3 (my first Halo) and hated COD was player visibility. In H3 you could pretty much always clearly see another player. Bright red and blue. In CoD, players blend into the drab and messy colours so easily, its just awful.

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I think most people agree with you. Players should stick out instantly no matter where they are. Judging by the feedback hopefully this will be tweaked.

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Looking at the replies they are not getting it still. I do however agree with that one guy that said that Sprint being in H4 was not the main reason the population dropped so fast. For me it was lack of good maps, lack of playlist options, no ranks etc...

 

Problem is that the maps for H5 are looking to be pretty bad too so I don't think getting rid of Sprint is good enough.

Yeah, for me it was everything that's commonly complained about. The maps, flinch, sprint, AAs and all the rest.

The first thing I noticed I hated was the maps, and it took a while to realise it was the traits that sprint imposes on map design that was making me hate them. Halo 5's maps just aren't doing it for me either. This game doesn't appeal on any level. :/

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Sorry man but I will have to disagree. This move(the toggle) again IMO is exactly what they did with Reach years ago, a "gesture" or so to speak to calm the competitive community down by giving them the option to play Halo like they want to. This is going to hurt the game in the long run(like it did with Reach) and we are going back to square one.

 

Such a simple solution it is to just remove sprint(and adjust the maps/gameplay to it, but its probably too late for this) and the just refuse to do just because "the game needs to evolve". It makes me really sad that "that" is their POV and vision for the game, I will prolly enjoy playing custom games with friends and whatnot, but in the long run(probably just as fast as Halo 4 and MCC), Halo 5 is going to die and be forgotten.

 

Maybe when it crashes and burns and they see it...perhaps Halo 6 will go back to no sprint and then we can move on.

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I didnt play much Halo 5 but from what I remember there is no Power Ups (Overshield, invis) or Equipment (Buble, grav lift) ?

 

Power ups obviously offer alot, even in a competitive sense.

Equipment are fun in social sense. Nothing better then when you face a rocket guy, throw out you bubble and he kills himself. 

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I didnt play much Halo 5 but from what I remember there is no Power Ups (Overshield, invis) or Equipment (Buble, grav lift) ?

 

Power ups obviously offer alot, even in a competitive sense.

Equipment are fun in social sense. Nothing better then when you face a rocket guy, throw out you bubble and he kills himself. 

There weren't any powerups in the beta but thankfully they've said they'll be in the final game.

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Yeah, these toggles aren't quite a game-changer, but at least puts me in the "might buy it" category.

 

And maps are never "designed for sprint" in my opinion. There is always a base movement speed that fits the scaling of a map perfectly. Any maps that are considered large without sprint are large with sprint too.

 

I remember people thinking Halo Reach maps were designed for sprint. That's just silly.

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