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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Pretty sure the same thing would happen in any other Halo game.

Spread would tighten, but never to that extent.

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YES IT DOES. 

 

There a video out there which show aiming down the sights reduces spread. 

 

Sure it doesn't slow you down when you aim in like CoD or Battlefield and you obviously get descoped but it is still ADS and simply not what they promised.

 

Josh Holmes even said something like "If players feel the need to scope in to win battles then we've broke the game." and that's exactly what happens - the SMG's spread while scoped in compared to unscoped is mental.

for automatics* which are broken and need nerfs anyways

 

 

Spread would tighten, but never to that extent.

does in H2A (or very close)

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Idk. Part of me wants to say the reason that you'll find more casual Halo players anywhere we congregate is because when looking for a competitive game it takes a special kind of idiot to pick Halo at this point. The Smash scene supported themselves and stayed alive and just played the games they loved instead of the newest game. That is exactly what Halo didn't do. Why? Well I'm not entirely sure but I think part of it is MLG being involved in the upwards tick and the decline sort of pushed a mentality onto the "competitive" community that placed extreme value on viewership/casual appeal that pushes people to try and make the newest Halo work no matter how unfit it happens to be and if that doesn't work we just quit. We should have just stuck it out at some point before H3 but we didn't. I put competitive in quotes because, well, that's kind of a joke on its own. We wouldn't be playing the Halo games we do if all we (the community) were interested in was competition. You had to butcher Halo 3's vanilla style of gameplay to make a tournament game that was mediocre at best and everything after that? Lol. Think about what changes it took for TU Reach to be "good". 

 

 

Awesome post, but I think the mindset of having to play the latest halo game no matter what even if it sucks wasn't the only thing to blame. What boggles my mind even more is that that the gametypes and settings being played weren't even the best ones avaliable, for exactly the nonsense reasons like "spectator appeal" and "casual appeal" that were and still are being used.

For example, it is more or less universally agreed that Reach NBNS was actually a decent experience and definetly the absolute best version of Halo:Reach that you could play.

What people seem to forget is that half of the equation, no sprint, was always available to be used in settings, but because of "spectator appeal" nonsense, we had to sit through countless settings of garbage, and it was our own fault. Ironically, the baselessness of the whole "spectator appeal" argument became bright as day when the NBNS MLG event had an incredible turnout, just for Halo to get dropped afterwards.

Settings and gametypes that made absolutely no sense happened in Halo 3 too, where we were we still using onslaught and amplified even in v8 settings were the map that they were supposed to be a placeholder for, Midship, was actually in the game with Heretic and was even being used in the MLG gametypes.

The kind of logic that was used to to justify using an inferior version of something, when the superior version is available is absolutely mindblowingly insane to me.

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What exactly is the big deal with the spread reduction thing? Just trying to play devils advocate here as I haven't seen much of any reason why it makes gameplay worse like I have with sprint and thruster. Let's say if something like this existed with the Halo 3 BR wouldn't that be a good thing? Or am I just looking at things out of context here. I hate ADS to, but only because I've stuck with Halo for 14 years so having my gun blocking the lower portion of my screen just fucks with how I process what's going on and my aim is worse because of it. I usually don't admit this because I don't really have any argument against "adapt". It's the only thing I want removed based solely on the fact that it's different and I like the old way better.

 

Edit: I'm stupid, Moa's post like 3 above me gives me a reason why it's bad. With all the other problems that must of slipped my mind.

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With ADS how it is right now, and if t remains unchanged, if we don't use DMR starts for the sake of reducing randomness I'm going to be so disappointed in the Halo community.

 

Randomness = bad, mmk?

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With ADS how it is right now, and if t remains unchanged, if we don't use DMR starts for the sake of reducing randomness I'm going to be so disappointed in the Halo community.

 

Randomness = bad, mmk?

Spawning with DMRs will result in people peek shooting across the map and thrusting back to cover... are you sure you want that?

 

As it is right now, maps don't have enough elements on them to promote pushing up. Power weapons are scarce on slow timers, and we haven't seen a single power-up. Leaving higher tier precision weapons on the map is better for the sake of flow.

 

We just need to drop the whole "increased accuracy while zooming" thing as a whole. Zoom should increase red reticle range and that's it. The AR should be a hipfire weapon, not a pseudo precision weapon. The magnum shouldn't be treated as a mere sidearm, it should be a viable precision weapon with short RRR and zoom power with a faster kill time than it has right now.

 

 

As for those defending Smart Scope as it is right now... whether you realize it or not, it turns Halo 5 into first shot = kill. If someone gets the jump on you with a zoomed in AR, you most of the time don't have a chance to fight back. It's not as bad for precision weapons that don't see a significant change while using it, but it ruins automatics. I don't give a shit how it looks, but it should not provide an accuracy bonus outside from increased red reticle range.

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I'll keep my final bit of feedback fairly concise:

AR/BR starts worked reasonably well for Slayer but spawning with the AR in Strongholds made each zone feel like a proverbial meat grinder.

Overall I enjoyed the BR/Magnum starts in week 2 the most, but I still think they're far from ideal. All I want is a starting weapon set that it as consistently powerful and nuanced as Halo CE's AR/Magnum loadout while continuing to be challenging for even the most experienced and skilled players to use perfectly (I can't help but think that the 343 Pro Team would be ideal at helping to gauge this).

 

As far as the maps go, I can't state enough how much the game would benefit from powerups making a comeback on fast timers.

I enjoyed Pegasus a lot and was fairly impressed by the new Forge pieces. On the other hand Orion was a nice concept, but the way it's actually built makes it a bit too open and too much of a standoff in practice. Orion did get the implementation of static spawning weapons right though - more maps need much more of that (with powerups) in order to keep games flowing and to force standoffs to eventually break.

 

Overall I enjoyed my time with the beta knowing that it was exactly that. However I still hold on to the concern that even with some adjustments this game will still feel like another lacklustre attempt at a spinoff than a genuine Halo multiplayer experience. To be as blunt as possible I cannot see myself dedicating time to Halo 5: Guardians in place of The Master Chief Collection (even if it doesn't improve any further between now and Halo 5's release) if it does not become more faithful to Halo's legacy.

I very much want to play Halo 5 religiously, and I want it to be the game that ties people I know from around the world back together again. But if it stays the course that seems to have been set so far those things won't happen.

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The fact that we're even sitting here complaining about how Halo 5's ADS functions on some level like CoD's ADS is a testament to just how much 343 does not get it, and I don't say that as some form of an insult.

 

@Deez @Sal1ent

 

I know you guys are trying to create this environment where the developers and fanbase work together in harmony to create a good Halo experience, but when you guys constantly make unbelievably frustrating decisions, you just make it a constant battle. It shouldn't have to be that way.

We shouldn't have to sit here and tell you that ADS shouldn't be in Halo. We shouldn't even have to sit here and tell you that sprint shouldn't be in Halo, and yet here we are. Being a Halo fan these days is a struggle at best.

These guys come here to get our approval for their decisions, not for information on what decision is best. Keep that perspective and their behavior becomes clear and easy to understand.

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Fuck isolated playlists for us. Why can't they just make a good base game?

BECAUSE they are CONVINCED it won't make money.

 

The best thing they can do is release a classic h5c as dlc several months after h5 release. The cost for the classic should be minimal if they designed h5 right. That way they get two games in one development effort and reduce their risks of losing population due to lack of intetest in the game.

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I've seen that happen in Halo 2, except at like 3-4x that distance...

 

Meanwhile in Halo Ce the scope doesn't effect accuracy for the Magnum at all.

Fun fact: the CE Sniper rifle has better accuracy in scope -> more spread while out of scope.

 

The catch: it's only noticable if you glitch outside of Blood Gulch and shoot it from a ridiculous distance so it doesn't really affect gameplay.

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These guys come here to get our approval for their decisions, not for information on what decision is best. Keep that perspective and their behavior becomes clear and easy to understand.

Oh no I'm not stating it as if they come here to find out whether or not ADS should be in the game, I'm just saying it's crazy that we even have to be here talking about ADS in Halo. It's crazy that we even have to mention in our feedback that Halo shouldn't be that way. This stuff should go with out saying, and the fact that it doesn't with 343 says a lot about how much they really understand things. That's what I'm getting at.

 

It's frustrating that in the last few years, being a Halo fan has been about 90% bad news and 10% good or unimportant news. It's pretty tiring trying to stay excited for the future of Halo at this point. It becomes more and more difficult with every decision 343 makes.

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Core mechanics and gameplay stay consistent across multiple Call of Duty titles? Go figure. 

 

:prayers:

They're all about the community. Something we cannot say. 

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Spawning with DMRs will result in people peek shooting across the map and thrusting back to cover... are you sure you want that?

 

As it is right now, maps don't have enough elements on them to promote pushing up. Power weapons are scarce on slow timers, and we haven't seen a single power-up. Leaving higher tier precision weapons on the map is better for the sake of flow.

 

We just need to drop the whole "increased accuracy while zooming" thing as a whole. Zoom should increase red reticle range and that's it. The AR should be a hipfire weapon, not a pseudo precision weapon. The magnum shouldn't be treated as a mere sidearm, it should be a viable precision weapon with short RRR and zoom power with a faster kill time than it has right now.

 

 

As for those defending Smart Scope as it is right now... whether you realize it or not, it turns Halo 5 into first shot = kill. If someone gets the jump on you with a zoomed in AR, you most of the time don't have a chance to fight back. It's not as bad for precision weapons that don't see a significant change while using it, but it ruins automatics. I don't give a shit how it looks, but it should not provide an accuracy bonus outside from increased red reticle range.

I understand the idea of peek shooting and the issues that it can cause, but with proper map design it won't be an issue.

 

Currently the BR is still plagued with inaccuracies. Out of the maps currently shown, the only map that the DMR would cause issues with would be Truth. Empire and Eden, and especially regret often have open enough spaces in order to cause positive gunfights.

 

Also, at most ranges in this game the BR and DMR have similar RRR when scoped in. Obviously if you're on the bridge at the door to blue base and shooting into red base, the DMR is going to have an advantage, even if both are out RRR, because the BR still has spread.

 

The fact that both players can shoot each other mid range 4 times at the same time and not trade is absurd. That's randomness at it's finest.

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Here's a brilliant question that's a real head scratcher:

 

Why the fuck does the sword and Prophets Bane have a scope!?

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Why the fuck does the sword and Prophets Bane have a scope!?

 

Immersion. In the grand scheme of things (IE real answer) they need "consistency". If that's what it takes to be consistent then ADS's isn't good for Halo.

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Immersion. In the grand scheme of things (IE real answer) they need "consistency". If that's what it takes to be consistent then ADS's isn't good for Halo.

fuck the immersion excuse. I don't see how a Spartan has even been able to just teleport into someones face when using a sword.

 

If we want immersion, we remove the Sword lunge entirely. The scope on both Swords is just... dumb.

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