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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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So, people who accept sprint... would buy Halo regardless of Sprint/No-Sprint. Meanwhile, people who don't accept sprint... won't accept Halo as much.

 

So, in other words: If Halo hasno-sprint, everyone is happy, 343 gets their sales, we get a good game, done. Why the fuck is so hard to understand it?

 

Because #immersion.

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You can only sprint with full shields.

 

 

 

 

 

Has anyone thought of that yet? If we do get stuck with sprint. That seems like the best of both worlds to me.

 

Bad game design sadly. You can't let a player feel like they aren't in control of their character. It's like saying you can only Clamber when you have a Pistol out. Stripping away abilities and making them situational can confuse people very quickly.

 

Best nerfs at the moment are:

 

  • Reduce Sprint Speed
  • Increase Base Speed
  • Slow Down Sprint When Shot
  • Stop Sprint When Shot
  • Make Ramp Up Time Longer
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I asked this Q to my 11-12 year old cousin who loves halo but started on Halo Reach:

 

Q) "If they were to take out sprint, how would you feel?"

 

A) "It would feel weird but I wouldn't mind it. I mean, I could deal with it on H2 anniversary and H3 so, yea. I wouldn't really mind it."

 

thots? thoughts?

 

I feel like it would be majority of people's reaction. As long as the gameplay is good people will shrug it off.

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I asked this Q to my 11-12 year old cousin who loves halo but started on Halo Reach:

 

Q) "If they were to take out sprint, how would you feel?"

 

A) "It would feel weird but I wouldn't mind it. I mean, I could deal with it on H2 anniversary and H3 so, yea. I wouldn't really mind it."

 

thots? thoughts?

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/would-you-play-halo-without-sprint/0d72a663-f94a-475b-899b-82ebd74e7af1/posts

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Best nerfs at the moment are:

 

  • Reduce Sprint Speed
  • Increase Base Speed
  • Slow Down Sprint When Shot
  • Stop Sprint When Shot
  • Make Ramp Up Time Longer

 

Suggested all these myself and I entirely support them.

 

I would also get rid of needing to hit full speed to slide, because it's a redundant mechanic, and sprint would become a better offensive tool

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Bad game design sadly. You can't let a player feel like they aren't in control of their character. It's like saying you can only Clamber when you have a Pistol out. Stripping away abilities and making them situational can confuse people very quickly.

 

Best nerfs at the moment are:

 

  • Reduce Sprint Speed
  • Increase Base Speed
  • Slow Down Sprint When Shot
  • Stop Sprint When Shot
  • Make Ramp Up Time Longer

 

Bad game design isn't really an argument. Not being able to charge your shields while sprinting is nearly the same thing, just to a lesser extent. Players learn how these mechanics work very quickly.

 

IMO sprint only at full shields solves almost all the issues we have with it. The only other remaining issue is that you can still cross the map fast and break setups.

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You can only sprint with full shields.

 

 

 

 

 

Has anyone thought of that yet? If we do get stuck with sprint. That seems like the best of both worlds to me.

Pointless. Getting from point to point is still way too easy with sprint, and that goes directly in the face of map positioning as an important gameplay element. Not to mention the fact that base player speed is still fuck all and strafing is pretty much useless.

 

Also, thruster pack is just as harmful, but if they nerfed it to a sort of "crouch plus sidestep" mechanic that complements strafing rather than replacing it entirely, that'd work. Having a wide array of subtle movement mechanics can only add to the metagame. Same with slide. Some would say that it's "useless", but you could say much the same thing about spring jumping, Gandhi hopping, Strongsiding, quick camo, weapon nading or crouch jumping.

 

Now that I'm over the honeymoon phase, I see that the easiest - and only - way to turn Guardians into a classic Halo title is to not make any compromises. Sprint has to go. The only way for it to possibly work is if it wasn't even recognizable as sprint. This would be extremely difficult, for the following reasons.

 

1. It would have to not allow players to get from point A to point B any quicker than in sprintless Halo, as it makes holding power positions completely impossible. This rules out the "only when 100% shields" idea. Not only that, but this means that turning sprint into an offensive-only tool STILL would not work.

2. It would have to not allow players to escape from battle easily.

 

It would work if you could ONLY use it when you're ALREADY in a battle, and NOT to get away. But then, it wouldn't even be sprint.

 

So yeah. It has to go. No compromises could logically work.

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Final Conclusions about H5:

 

There is no individual skill gap in this game.

Thruster and Sprint...well, you know.

Eden is the up there among the worst FPS maps ever made.

4v4 with 8 competent, non-******** players is without a doubt the most boring, drawn out experience of any game I've ever played. Worse than H4. As bad or worse than H2A Lockout.

 

 

Fuck that noise, I'm out.

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I've pretty much given up on halo but I'll add this since I see you guys mentioning being unable to sprint without full shields:

 

 

How about having sprint actually use your shields. X seconds = Y depletion

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Pointless. Getting from point to point is still way too easy with sprint, and that goes directly in the face of map positioning as an important gameplay element. Not to mention the fact that base player speed is still fuck all and strafing is pretty much useless.

 

Also, thruster pack is just as harmful, but if they nerfed it to a sort of "crouch plus sidestep" mechanic that complements strafing rather than replacing it entirely, that'd work. Having a wide array of subtle movement mechanics can only add to the metagame. Same with slide. Some would say that it's "useless", but you could say much the same thing about spring jumping, Gandhi hopping, Strongsiding, quick camo, weapon nading or crouch jumping.

 

Now that I'm over the honeymoon phase, I see that the easiest - and only - way to turn Guardians into a classic Halo title is to not make any compromises. Sprint has to go. The only way for it to possibly work is if it wasn't even recognizable as sprint. This would be extremely difficult, for the following reasons.

 

1. It would have to not allow players to get from point A to point B any quicker than in sprintless Halo, as it makes holding power positions completely impossible. This rules out the "only when 100% shields" idea. Not only that, but this means that turning sprint into an offensive-only tool STILL would not work.

2. It would have to not allow players to escape from battle easily.

 

It would work if you could ONLY use it when you're ALREADY in a battle, and NOT to get away. But then, it wouldn't even be sprint.

 

So yeah. It has to go. No compromises could logically work.

Yeah, I mean, no sprint is obviously the best solution. I want that 100% but if we're stuck with it, I think this is a good compromise. Honestly, I would enjoy having a 100% shields sprint in BTB because I get so sick of hoofing it across the giant maps all the time. 

 

It's nice to say "no compromises work" but we may be at the point of having to compromise regardless.

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I've pretty much given up on halo but I'll add this since I see you guys mentioning being unable to sprint without full shields:

 

 

How about having sprint actually use your shields. X seconds = Y depletion

 

Players shouldn't have to choose between the best mobility and the most optimal health. Smarter players will not sprint to save their shields but the game will be poisoned by the toxicity of kids surfing in with Sprint and back smacking.

 

Also, its a silly concept in general. I wouldn't feel IMMERSED.  :quinn:

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Pointless. Getting from point to point is still way too easy with sprint, and that goes directly in the face of map positioning as an important gameplay element. Not to mention the fact that base player speed is still fuck all and strafing is pretty much useless.

 

Also, thruster pack is just as harmful, but if they nerfed it to a sort of "crouch plus sidestep" mechanic that complements strafing rather than replacing it entirely, that'd work. Having a wide array of subtle movement mechanics can only add to the metagame. Same with slide. Some would say that it's "useless", but you could say much the same thing about spring jumping, Gandhi hopping, Strongsiding, quick camo, weapon nading or crouch jumping.

 

Now that I'm over the honeymoon phase, I see that the easiest - and only - way to turn Guardians into a classic Halo title is to not make any compromises. Sprint has to go. The only way for it to possibly work is if it wasn't even recognizable as sprint. This would be extremely difficult, for the following reasons.

 

1. It would have to not allow players to get from point A to point B any quicker than in sprintless Halo, as it makes holding power positions completely impossible. This rules out the "only when 100% shields" idea. Not only that, but this means that turning sprint into an offensive-only tool STILL would not work.

2. It would have to not allow players to escape from battle easily.

 

It would work if you could ONLY use it when you're ALREADY in a battle, and NOT to get away. But then, it wouldn't even be sprint.

 

So yeah. It has to go. No compromises could logically work.

It should be as simple as:

 

incoming damage -> cancel sprint animation

 

if sprint is cancelled from incoming damage (before you stopped sprinting yourself), you can't start sprinting again until your shields have recharged. You could have an audio cue to let people know sprint won't work. If you stopped yourself via a manual input, you could sprint again until you're forced out of it. It would promote smarter sprint usage.

 

As for slide, it's useless because you need to sprint for a full second, and you don't even slide that far. Thrusters are better in any situation, you're just not limited to one direction and bound to the ground.

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Just kinda want to toss ideas around:

 

If we have to compromise and have sprint in the final game, would we happier viewing it as a high risk-high reward mobility option? Like what if when you reached max speed your shields popped. You could use it sparingly to get off a spawn back into some kind of action, but if you run for too long your shields "overload" or something, idk, something immersive, and your shields have to pop to sustain that speed? People that want to be sneaky and disruptive still have it as an option, but using it like crazy makes you extremely vulnerable.

 

There could even be a visual or audio cue when you're about to reach max speed and then POP. Shields are down, and won't recover until you stop sprinting (similar to the beta).  Thoughts? Questions? Concerns?

 

@@Vetoed - your idea above is really the most simple, effective fix. Just out super naive curiosity - has anyone tried throwing an idea like that to 343? I know they replied to someones tweet about sprint degrading shields and they seemed to be interested at least.

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It should be as simple as:

 

incoming damage -> cancel sprint animation

 

if sprint is cancelled from incoming damage (before you stopped sprinting yourself), you can't start sprinting again until your shields have recharged. You could have an audio cue to let people know sprint won't work. If you stopped yourself via a manual input, you could sprint again until you're forced out of it. It would promote smarter sprint usage.

 

As for slide, it's useless because you need to sprint for a full second, and you don't even slide that far. Thrusters are better in any situation, you're just not limited to one direction and bound to the ground.

@@Vetoed - your idea above is really the most simple, effective fix. Just out super naive curiosity - has anyone tried throwing an idea like that to 343? I know they replied to someones tweet about sprint degrading shields and they seemed to be interested at least.

@@Sal1ent

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Final Conclusions about H5:

 

There is no individual skill gap in this game.

Thruster and Sprint...well, you know.

Eden is the up there among the worst FPS maps ever made.

4v4 with 8 competent, non-******** players is without a doubt the most boring, drawn out experience of any game I've ever played. Worse than H4. As bad or worse than H2A Lockout.

 

 

Fuck that noise, I'm out.

 

There's the potential for the largest individual skill gap since Halo 1. However, the abilities which allow players to escape quickly (most notably thruster, not sprint actually) serve to reduce this to another Halo 2/3/Reach/4 game where teamshot is everything. Any time you get into a 1v1, the losing player will simply thrust to cover and retreat to where their teammates can provide support.

 

This game would be great with 3 simple changes:

Increase strafe speed

Remove thrusters

Decrease ttk on precision weapons.

 

You don't even need to remove sprint if you fix the ttk.

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I think its a GREAT multiplayer Halo! Best yet!

 

The balance of weapons on the maps. The abilities everyone has and the full fairness of power weapons, now one team can't throw the respawn cycle off and control power weapons the whole game. Find myself able to carry a team a lot easier now that a full team can't do that.

 

GREAT job 343! Halo is about being a Spartan in a suit with abilities, you guys nailed it with Halo 5!

 

The Only thing that feels off (to me) is the sniper feels like it has a slight delay... all other weapons seem to be on point especially with those dedicated servers.

 

Good Job 343!!

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343 is doing the same thing Blizzard did with Diablo. So sad.

 

Naw, Diablo III devs admitted their mistakes and did their best to fix them. http://www.pcgamer.com/diablo-iii-interview-lead-designers-reflect-on-their-mistakes-look-ahead-to-reaper-of-souls/

 

I can respect a different studio having their own "vision" for a storied franchise and conflicting with old-school fans because of it, but I cant respect a developer too arrogant to admit when they are wrong and who keeps on repeating the same mistakes.

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Once you realise what Sprint does to this game, it becomes impossible to enjoy.

 

Sprint is basically a terminal disease to Halo, it might be too late to save at this point.

i'm honestly more pissed with having shit teammates fuck my rank up but sprint sucks too

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Naw, Diablo III devs admitted their mistakes and did their best to fix them. http://www.pcgamer.com/diablo-iii-interview-lead-designers-reflect-on-their-mistakes-look-ahead-to-reaper-of-souls/

 

I can respect  a different studio have a different "vision" for a storied franchise and conflicting with old-school fans because of it, but I cant respect a developer too arrogant to admit when they are wrong and who keeps on repeating the same mistakes.

This article was before RoS, when they continued to ruin the game, and not listen to the good feedback that was being given on their forums, and people getting so fed up that most stopped playing and even the MVP's got so fed up they quit their position with the Diablo forum to actively speak out against how bad everything they were doing was.

Auction House actually was a good idea, but they screwed it up themselves.

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It should be as simple as:

 

incoming damage -> cancel sprint animation

 

if sprint is cancelled from incoming damage (before you stopped sprinting yourself), you can't start sprinting again until your shields have recharged. You could have an audio cue to let people know sprint won't work. If you stopped yourself via a manual input, you could sprint again until you're forced out of it. It would promote smarter sprint usage.

 

As for slide, it's useless because you need to sprint for a full second, and you don't even slide that far. Thrusters are better in any situation, you're just not limited to one direction and bound to the ground.

What about map design? If the map is designed with Sprint in mind, those who can't sprint due to a previous encounter can't go to a safer position while the maps are huge. In the other hand, you can't have classic maps with sprint. Imagine a small sized classic map, then add unlimited sprint + truster. 

 

For example, 4v4, you and I fight in the middle, you kill me but I leave you one shot. You can't sprint or go faster to a safe zone near your team, while in the other hand there's 3 opponents that can go all around the map and finish you off. Yeah, you have 3 teammates, but that doesn't mean they'll guarantee you cover. If its Br starts plus an open map it'll be really easy to finish you off. Understandably, you shouldn't get away due to the bad positioning you have in the middle of the map. But this theory can apply in most places in the game.

 

Pink 2, one shot, you can't sprint, you'll get guys sprinting at you ready to throw nades, groundpound you, charge at you, etc.

 

From my perspective Sprint is quite an issue, and when you try to balance it there's still some issues that most of us can't see until we play it. 

 

Also, from my perspective, not being able to sprint for not having full shields won't work that well, and might even piss off a lot of people.

 

 

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I don't think we should try to balance sprint (Obviously it will never be truly balanced - map design etc). This gives 343 the impression that we are okay with their horrible changes/direction.

 

I'd just prefer to not purchase the game.

 

We have compromised enough over the years. I'm sick of giving them good money for an inferior product.

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