Jump to content
CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Recommended Posts

H5 nades are absolute nukes. Even with thrust. And there are so many on the maps at all times. Without thrust? Holy titties. They are unbearable. H2A nades are very similar. Oh yeah and hitmarkers. But H5 nades also just track the duck out of you it seems. Like after you bounce it they'll just soar through the air right at your toes. Doesn't matter if you are at the top of a ramp or the bottom, they'll find you.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Both nades have their merit.

 

 

Here's the answer, right here. Would it be impossible to have a Halo game with both types of grenades?

Share this post


Link to post

H5 nades are absolute nukes. Even with thrust. And there are so many on the maps at all times. Without thrust? Holy titties. They are unbearable. H2A nades are very similar. Oh yeah and hitmarkers. But H5 nades also just track the duck out of you it seems. Like after you bounce it they'll just soar through the air right at your toes. Doesn't matter if you are at the top of a ramp or the bottom, they'll find you.

It’s crazy the lengths they have to go to in order to cancel out the Abilities they added into the game.

 

If adding thrust means you’ll need a massive blast radius and freaking grenade magnetism to cancel out the effects of thrust. Perhaps you shouldn’t add thrust.

  • Upvote (+1) 9

Share this post


Link to post

Sure, there is some skill with banking grenades to certain areas, but that skill is also present in CE. In the context of the sandbox, CE nades aren't any more lethal than other games in the series; they put someone 1 shot, at most.

 

They 1 shot you all the time.

Share this post


Link to post

I agree with hardway. both nades are well designed. There's nothing wrong with either of them. They're different but I think both are acceptable. Though I like how for CE, you can design areas that aren't "insta nade" such as downrush. Downrush has a lot of walls that are curved so you can't dink dink them to explode really fast, they'll bounce up and just never explode in time. 

 

 

Hitmarkers are just plain stupid no matter what. 

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

Eh. I don't see that as a positive. Banking nades and getting them to hit people mid air is a skill.

 

CE nades arent really used to aid weapons. They're used to straight up kill. They're also the most spammable due to their high damage and blast radius.

 

I also don't think even a well placed nade should be as lethal as ce nades are due to how easy they are to obtain.

1. agreed

 

2. not really... When mcc was glitched and you spawned with 2 nades, you definitely didn't spam them. People spam them because you have 4 of them in ce. 

 

3. Well for the most part that's 1 shot... so like the same as h2 and h3. They do kill in ce because there's no regenerating health. 

Share this post


Link to post

In the context of a Halo that doesnt use SA's:

 

1. Frags should only remove shields when detonating within the immediate vicinity of the hitbox, and the damage drop off should curve off only a bodylength from the player's centre mass, not fucking three body lengths like the Halo 5 version.

 

2. They should have a much quicker throw time and be able to move weapons and vehicles a lot, so they can still have utility (and therefore be worth having). I think this works for bouncy-style nades and allows for a lot of skill potential with bank shots.

 

3. The reason CE nades worked is because they had a slow throw time and a long fuse, which still let you do stuff before it blew your face off. I personally wish they were still a bit weaker, but this is mitigated by having a powerful weapon sandbox to compliment it. You CAN'T have powerful nades in a weapon sandbox that has everything taking longer than a second to kill.

 

4. Thrust sucks absolute donkey dick because the meta revolves around nades either being weak because a player has thrust available, or OP when a player doesnt have thrust available. 343 decided to make nades always fucking nukes so thrust is less relevant, which makes no sense because now the meta is literally spamming nades all the time as often as possible because they are literally power weapons that get thrown at 100 miles an hour from spawn. They should have gone the opposite way and made nades way less powerful so not only does thrust get away from them, but shooting people actually means something because they're not going to be permanently 1 shot from nades.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Idk what arg is smoking, but grenades are one of the few aspects of Halo that "modern Halo" hasn't completely destroyed yet (unlike skillful shooting and movement, R.I.P.). I mean aren't we the ones always pushing for a stronger utility and faster TTK to combat the combat evasion abilities? Why are strong nades suddenly the devil? Just imagine if we spawned with something as weak as H3's grenades instead of the H5 frags. You would never be able to kill the guy that thrusts around the corner every time he gets shot. Blame SprintThrustSlideHoverClamber, not the grenades. We need to delete Sprint & friends and up the base movement speed, not nerf the grenades. Yes they are completely ******** in the H3 Throwback playlist, but that playlist also has severe frame drops, weapons despawn after 10 seconds and the spawns are cancer, so it's no surprise they forgot to tweak the grenade damage radius.

 

Besides that, grenades have way bigger problems than their blast radius. The cancerous hitmarkers need to go, maps need to stop adding so much complex geometry that fucks with the nades (honestly what do the stairs on Eden even add to the game?). 

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

*snip*

 

Besides that, grenades have way bigger problems than their blast radius. The cancerous hitmarkers need to go, maps need to stop adding so much complex geometry that fucks with the nades (honestly what do the stairs on Eden even add to the game?). 

 

This has been an issue that's gotten worse, not just for nades, since H3, but is definitely bad now.  I don't know why I still do it, but everytime I run up a P-ramp on Truth, I jump and try and skip a nade off the floor on P2, and it just stops.  Why would you do this?  I know people get tired of hearing about CE, but the reason we constantly bring it up is because it did so many of these things right, and then it all got ruined.  I never really appreciated the perfectly tuned friction between nades and surfaces, and the lack of complex geometry until I started wasting nades to nonsense in H5.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

H5 nades are absolute nukes. Even with thrust. And there are so many on the maps at all times. Without thrust? Holy titties. They are unbearable. H2A nades are very similar. Oh yeah and hitmarkers. But H5 nades also just track the duck out of you it seems. Like after you bounce it they'll just soar through the air right at your toes. Doesn't matter if you are at the top of a ramp or the bottom, they'll find you.

 

I'm glad i'm not the only person that feels this way.  I watch a grenade coming straight at me, not hit the ground until it is already behind me, thrust forward and still get nailed by the explosion.  And the number of times i have tried to bounce a nade top mid on Fathom or into P/Car on truth and have it just stop dead is astounding.  I know they are tweaking nade damage next week, but i hope that collision detection/physics are a part of that as well.

 

Idk what arg is smoking, but grenades are one of the few aspects of Halo that "modern Halo" hasn't completely destroyed yet (unlike skillful shooting and movement, R.I.P.). I mean aren't we the ones always pushing for a stronger utility and faster TTK to combat the combat evasion abilities? Why are strong nades suddenly the devil? Just imagine if we spawned with something as weak as H3's grenades instead of the H5 frags. You would never be able to kill the guy that thrusts around the corner every time he gets shot. Blame SprintThrustSlideHoverClamber, not the grenades. We need to delete Sprint & friends and up the base movement speed, not nerf the grenades. Yes they are completely ******** in the H3 Throwback playlist, but that playlist also has severe frame drops, weapons despawn after 10 seconds and the spawns are cancer, so it's no surprise they forgot to tweak the grenade damage radius.

 

Besides that, grenades have way bigger problems than their blast radius. The cancerous hitmarkers need to go, maps need to stop adding so much complex geometry that fucks with the nades (honestly what do the stairs on Eden even add to the game?). 

 

They didn't tweak them in the H3 playlist because they can't.  It sounds like the grenade characteristics are hard coded somehow?  They said they couldn't tweak them for the tuning test because of the way the game is architected so im guessing its the same case here.

 

Honestly that H3 playlist with a proper BR, proper grenades and proper spawns would be the best thing Halo has had in a loooong long time.

Share this post


Link to post

Tbh we can only hope MCC will be fully fixed, because we’re not getting a halo that respects the halo formula. 343 has DELUDED themselves into believing THEIR version of halo is a SUCCESS! They ignore every halo social media/forum that consist majority of the time of halo 5 hatred. The biggest post on waypoint are anti h5/sprint shit.

But 343 they never learn from their mistakes. H5 is the example I need. Honestly why is it 343 hates classic halo so damn much. I hate h5 because it’s not fun! Halo doesn’t work with sprint because of the damn shield system. Some people like to say that if halo started out with abilities and removed them you’d hate it too? Maybe, because then the formula which halo had was broken. But the FACTS remain it didn’t! I’m not asking for halo 3.5! I’m asking for HALO!

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Nades are definitley one of the more rewarding aspects of Halo (and it will hopefully feel even more so in this update when blast radius is reduced. Now to get hitmarkers taken out...)

 

The use of grenades in this discussion is interesting. Anyone that's experienced with Halo knows not to throw a grenade in a gunfight that you're engaged in. That's a rookie mistake. You're even in shots and throw a nade? You're dead. You're up shot and throw a nade? You're dead. One of the more skillful aspects of gunfights to me is popping behind cover, baiting your enemy into throwing a nade, then popping back out to pull even or win the fight.

 

As to throwing nades around corners when you're disengaging from a fight? There's a reason "Don't chase" is solid Halo advice.

 

Moving to a different game that doesn't allow nades to be manipulated on floors/walls as Halo does feels weird. I've grown accustomed to thinking about how I can bounce nades.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I'm glad i'm not the only person that feels this way. I watch a grenade coming straight at me, not hit the ground until it is already behind me, thrust forward and still get nailed by the explosion. And the number of times i have tried to bounce a nade top mid on Fathom or into P/Car on truth and have it just stop dead is astounding. I know they are tweaking nade damage next week, but i hope that collision detection/physics are a part of that as well.

 

 

They didn't tweak them in the H3 playlist because they can't. It sounds like the grenade characteristics are hard coded somehow? They said they couldn't tweak them for the tuning test because of the way the game is architected so im guessing its the same case here.

 

Honestly that H3 playlist with a proper BR, proper grenades and proper spawns would be the best thing Halo has had in a loooong long time.

Oh yeah trajectory is crazy random. Nading P2 from street is almost always gonna make the nade stop completely and hurt yourself. And they could've messed with blast radius and damage and knock back in the classic playlist. It's in the custom games options. They just didn't bother. So maid like Guardian are now nade city.

Share this post


Link to post

Nades are definitley one of the more rewarding aspects of Halo (and it will hopefully feel even more so in this update when blast radius is reduced. Now to get hitmarkers taken out...)

 

The use of grenades in this discussion is interesting. Anyone that's experienced with Halo knows not to throw a grenade in a gunfight that you're engaged in. That's a rookie mistake. You're even in shots and throw a nade? You're dead. You're up shot and throw a nade? You're dead. One of the more skillful aspects of gunfights to me is popping behind cover, baiting your enemy into throwing a nade, then popping back out to pull even or win the fight.

 

As to throwing nades around corners when you're disengaging from a fight? There's a reason "Don't chase" is solid Halo advice.

 

Moving to a different game that doesn't allow nades to be manipulated on floors/walls as Halo does feels weird. I've grown accustomed to thinking about how I can bounce nades.

Well that's not really true in H5 since you have things like thrust. You can throw nades and cancel the animation with a thrust. You can also peek, nade, peek, nade, and use thrust when you really need to. The amount of times people throw nades instead of shoot is pretty damn high. Even if it's a "low level" tactic it's still something that can make you one shot when normally the guy couldn't hit you at all.

Share this post


Link to post

Well that's not really true in H5 since you have things like thrust. You can throw nades and cancel the animation with a thrust. You can also peek, nade, peek, nade, and use thrust when you really need to. The amount of times people throw nades instead of shoot is pretty damn high. Even if it's a "low level" tactic it's still something that can make you one shot when normally the guy couldn't hit you at all.

 

My bad, I should have clarified I was mostly spectating about how the blast radius change will alter what I was describing.

 

As it stands, yea, you're absolutely correct. Thrust does change a lot, and allows the person that the nade is being thrown at to evade too. That gets into the whole thrust debate though.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I'm glad i'm not the only person that feels this way. I watch a grenade coming straight at me, not hit the ground until it is already behind me, thrust forward and still get nailed by the explosion. And the number of times i have tried to bounce a nade top mid on Fathom or into P/Car on truth and have it just stop dead is astounding. I know they are tweaking nade damage next week, but i hope that collision detection/physics are a part of that as well.

 

 

They didn't tweak them in the H3 playlist because they can't. It sounds like the grenade characteristics are hard coded somehow? They said they couldn't tweak them for the tuning test because of the way the game is architected so im guessing its the same case here.

 

Honestly that H3 playlist with a proper BR, proper grenades and proper spawns would be the best thing Halo has had in a loooong long time.

Nah physics engine tweaks are much easier than you think. I got to play with Blizzards new Domino physics engine that they made specifically for Overwatch. It's literally just a series of values that you can enter numbers in.

 

"Friction = X

Bounciness = Y

Weight = Z

Air Resistance = A"

 

So on and such. Now obviously I don't know EXACTLY how everything works there but last I checked Halo also runs physics separately through the havok engine. It should be as simple as changing a few values, seriously. They added physics to the gravity hammer in H5 several months later so, I don't see a reason H5 nades couldn't be touched. They won't of course.

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

What they really need to do is add a collision map over all complicated geometry so that for example stairs are viewed as a solid ramp by grenades, rockets and the like. H3s top mid should not just scatter naded randomly and rockets disappearing in staircases on Eden in 2017 is just downright pathetic.

Share this post


Link to post

What they really need to do is add a collision map over all complicated geometry so that for example stairs are viewed as a solid ramp by grenades, rockets and the like. H3s top mid should not just scatter naded randomly and rockets disappearing in staircases on Eden in 2017 is just downright pathetic.

I’m all for not allowing grenades to get stuck in unintended gaps in geometry but isn’t the distinction between a ramp and stairs, in relation to grenade bouncing, that it is possible on the former and impossible on the latter? Isn’t that intentional map design?

Share this post


Link to post

1. agreed

 

2. not really... When mcc was glitched and you spawned with 2 nades, you definitely didn't spam them. People spam them because you have 4 of them in ce.

 

3. Well for the most part that's 1 shot... so like the same as h2 and h3. They do kill in ce because there's no regenerating health.

2. By spam I mean just haphazardly throw at someone. In 2/3 if you just chuck a nade at a guy whos looking at you you're probably not going to do any damage. In ce, it can be very deadly.

 

3. Ya, exactly. They one shot often.

Share this post


Link to post

Nah physics engine tweaks are much easier than you think. I got to play with Blizzards new Domino physics engine that they made specifically for Overwatch. It's literally just a series of values that you can enter numbers in.

 

"Friction = X

Bounciness = Y

Weight = Z

Air Resistance = A"

 

So on and such. Now obviously I don't know EXACTLY how everything works there but last I checked Halo also runs physics separately through the havok engine. It should be as simple as changing a few values, seriously. They added physics to the gravity hammer in H5 several months later so, I don't see a reason H5 nades couldn't be touched. They won't of course.

 

Yeah. I mean, none of this shit should be hard, but it seems to be for some reason?

Share this post


Link to post

Regarding melee's. Do we keep Halo CE's mechanics where each weapon and a different melee hitbox?

Share this post


Link to post

Nah physics engine tweaks are much easier than you think. I got to play with Blizzards new Domino physics engine that they made specifically for Overwatch. It's literally just a series of values that you can enter numbers in.

 

"Friction = X

Bounciness = Y

Weight = Z

Air Resistance = A"

 

So on and such. Now obviously I don't know EXACTLY how everything works there but last I checked Halo also runs physics separately through the havok engine. It should be as simple as changing a few values, seriously. They added physics to the gravity hammer in H5 several months later so, I don't see a reason H5 nades couldn't be touched. They won't of course.

 

Perhaps 343 is not using OOP programming for nades, so any change they make changes it game wide and they are too lazy to write a class for it.

 

Highly doubtful, but then again, can't ever be too sure with 343.

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps 343 is not using OOP programming for nades, so any change they make changes it game wide and they are too lazy to write a class for it.

 

Highly doubtful, but then again, can't ever be too sure with 343.

 

They have mentioned this specifically.  They can't change base grenade characteristics without changing them for the whole game like they can with weapons.

Share this post


Link to post

They 1 shot you all the time.

Only if you've lost some health. A Halo 1 frag will never 1 shot someone at full health and shields.

 

2. By spam I mean just haphazardly throw at someone. In 2/3 if you just chuck a nade at a guy whos looking at you you're probably not going to do any damage. In ce, it can be very deadly.

This is the exact opposite of my experience.

 

Only floors start the fuse. Walls and ceilings do nothing to quicken the fuse. The only exception to this is gold hall on Zealot.

 

This description of airburst nades isn’t accurate. You need to use a floor to start your timer. The trick becomes trying to airburst it on the enemy to give them minimal time to react.

 

Both nades have their merit.

 

Also, the presence of health packs makes nades way more lethal in H1 because a nade will kill full shield yellow health.

My mistake. I still maintain my position that the fuse timer has a huge impact on the skill requirement for the grenades. It's much easier for spammed grenades to be problematic with the one-bounce timer of later Halo games.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I’m all for not allowing grenades to get stuck in unintended gaps in geometry but isn’t the distinction between a ramp and stairs, in relation to grenade bouncing, that it is possible on the former and impossible on the latter? Isn’t that intentional map design?

They also get stuck under the stairs.

 

In a game with a history of using bank nades to attack a position making a 'realistic' stair vs grenade bounce is just not acceptable. If it is intentional, then it was an attempt to make certain positions stronger because the flow of the map is broken because of the SAs.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.