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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Are there any other pick ups like Hologram or Jump Boots that you think Halo could benefit from?

Oh yeah absolutely. Like many other people here, I think the equipment idea has legs. We just need better equipment. H4's Regen Field as a single use would make a decent pickup too.

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Oh yeah absolutely. Like many other people here, I think the equipment idea has legs. We just need better equipment. H4's Regen Field as a single use would make a decent pickup too.

What do you think of a shield type of Equipment like Hardlight Shield or a Jackal Shield?

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What do you think of a shield type of Equipment like Hardlight Shield or a Jackal Shield?

I'm open to the idea. I didn't hate Hardlight, and as someone that plays a lot of Montagne in Siege, I can appreciate a well played shield character. I think the key with it would be a non-instant deployment of it so it can't be an "oh shit" button like the bubble shield was. You should have to plan it. And it should have limited hit points so that theres actually incentive to shoot at it.

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I'm open to the idea. I didn't hate Hardlight, and as someone that plays a lot of Montagne in Siege, I can appreciate a well played shield character. I think the key with it would be a non-instant deployment of it so you can't be an "oh shit" button like the bubble shield was. You should have to plan it. And it should have limited hit points so that theres actually incentive to shoot at it.

That's odd because I was thinking the opposite. Instant deployment allows it to be a counter to an incoming rocket or overcharged Plasma Pistol. How do you envision a non-instant deployment shield being used? To push forward under direct gun fire?

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I'll never understand why people make absolute statements like these. There is no skill, none, absolutely zero? So all I have to do is show that there is the slightest bit of skill involved and you are proven wrong? Ok. You could run to the corner of a room with no enemies in it, face the wall, then deploy your Hologram OR you could stand in cover, like inside a cave, where you suspect an enemy is outside then deploy the Hologram out into your enemy's sight line. One of those situations is clearly a more skillful use of Hologram than the other.

 

See how you were just proven wrong because you took such a hardline stance? You could say it takes very little skill or the benefit to gameplay is not significant enough to warrant its inclusion but you are undeniable wrong in saying it takes no skill.

So we should judge a powerups by how useful they are in empty rooms?

 

I took a 'hardline' stance because it should be obvious that we are talking about use cases in combat.

 

There is 1 single use case, and you don't have to be skilled to use it- you just have to know what that use case is. Knowledge and skill are not the same thing. the logical use case you provided is IDENTICAL to the one i provided earlier. Why? Because that's literally all there is to it.

 

I challenge you to come up with a scenario that is different.

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So we should judge a powerups by how useful they are in empty rooms?

I took a hardline stance because it should be obvious that we are talking about use cases in combat.

There is 1 single use case, and you don't have to be skilled to use it- you just have to know what that use case is. Knowledge and skill are the same thing. Ironically, the logical use case you provided is IDENTICAL to the one inprovided. Why? Because that's literally all there is to it.

1. Bait a sniper into firing at a Hologram to reveal his location via contrails

 

2. Cause an enemy to adjust his aim right before you move through a choke point like a doorway allowing you to get the first shot on someone who was expecting you

 

3. Cause an enemy to think you are just a Hologram running forward

 

4. Create confusion in a hill zone

 

That's four unique uses for Hologram right there.

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1. Bait a sniper into firing at a Hologram to reveal his location via contrails

 

2. Cause an enemy to adjust his aim right before you move through a choke point like a doorway allowing you to get the first shot on an enemy who was expecting you

 

3. Cause an enemy to think a real enemy is just a Hologram running forward

 

4. Create confusion in a hill zone

 

That's four unique uses for Hologram right there.

None of these are unique. 1-3 are the exact same concept: from cover, deploy hologram with hopes your enemy is distracted.

 

Option 4 doesn't work if you are seen deploying. If you are unseen when you deploy, it's they exact same concept as 1-3.

 

Also, none of these requires skill. Just knowledge that hologram is only useful if the opponent doesn't know that you just deployed a hologram. You have no agency over whether or not an opponent is fooled, beyond deploying when they can't see you.

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That's odd because I was thinking the opposite. Instant deployment allows it to be a counter to an incoming rocket or overcharged Plasma Pistol. How do you envision a non-instant deployment shield being used? To push forward under direct gun fire?

Mostly obj plays or meatshielding so a teammate can safely get a powerup/weapon.  It'd be really useful in Assault to protect the ball guy while he arms, but I mean it'd be good in any obj mode.

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None of these are unique. 1-3 are the exact same concept: from cover, deploy hologram with hopes your enemy is distracted.

 

Option 4 doesn't work if you are seen deploying. If you are unseen when you deploy, it's they exact same concept as 1-3.

 

Also, none of these requires skill. Just knowledge that hologram is only useful if the opponent doesn't know that you just deployed a hologram.

No in number 3 he means conditioning your opponent to not shoot at a hologram by spamming it a lot, and then pretending to be a hologram to cross an area.

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No in number 3 he means conditioning your opponent to not shoot at a hologram by spamming it a lot, and then pretending to be a hologram to cross an area.

OK, different. Still no skill involved... just a hope that the opponent will be fooled. There's no skill in knowing if it's been spammed enough that he won't shoot. And I doubt many would wait around for him to make a move anyway.

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@@Deez, why is the movement speed so slow in the H3 playlist? Why is the shield recharge delay so absurdly long? These decisions need to be defended. Until then I have to assume the people in charge of these decisions have never played Halo 3.

 

All we wanted was no spartan abilities on forge remakes. How hard is this?


Also, who chose the gametypes? Oddball on High Ground?

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OK, different. Still no skill involved... just a hope that the opponent will be fooled. There's no skill in knowing if it's been spammed enough that he won't shoot. And I doubt many would wait around for him to make a move anyway.

Yes. Hoping your opponent will be fooled is the very essence of Hologram. If your criteria is going to be so generalized then yes, Hologram only has one use: fooling your enemy. Ignoring the fact that fooling your enemy can occur under a variety of different situations for many different reasons.

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Pinned down by a Sniper? Deploy your Hologram out in the same direction two or three times. Then you run out on the same vector you deployed your previous Holograms. You can either get to new cover or turn and start firing at the enemy sniper, who might be taken by surprise at what he thought was just another Hologram.

 

Wait what? There is no way that would be a viable move in any other format besides maybe a 1v1. Another player would have come at you from another angle or the sniper would have maneuvered around by the time you could sit there and send out so many holograms.

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Wait what? There is no way that would be a viable move in any other format besides maybe a 1v1. Another player would have come at you from another angle or the sniper would have maneuvered around by the time you could sit there and send out so many holograms.

Why would a sniper move if he had you pinned down?

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Why would a sniper move if he had you pinned down?

 

To finish the kill? Are you intending to defend your previous post?

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To finish the kill? Are you intending to defend your previous post?

Do you regularly sacrifice your superior position to hastily finish an enemy that has no chance of harming you in your current location?

 

Also, could you just ask me specific questions. I have no idea what you mean by defend my previous post when I am replying to multiple people at once.

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Do you regularly sacrifice your superior position to hastily finish an enemy that has no chance of harming you in your current location?

 

Also, could you just ask me specific questions. I have no idea what you mean by defend my previous post when I am replying to multiple people at once.

 

I'm talking about this quote:

 

"Deploy your Hologram out in the same direction two or three times."

 

I am asking you address my point about other players in the game intervening in this supposed situation where you are pinned down by a sniper and are somehow able to send out 2 - 3 holograms as a viable move.

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I'm talking about this quote:

 

"Deploy your Hologram out in the same direction two or three times."

 

I am asking you address my point about other players in the game intervening in this supposed situation where you are pinned down by a sniper and are somehow able to send out 2 - 3 holograms as a viable move.

Well, if you are behind cover and your teammates are keeping their teammates busy then I don't see how this is such a far fatched situation. You can still defend yourself against flanking enemies. The real threat is the sniper trained on your position. I'm not exactly sure what you are asking me. Like I said, specific questions can be answered.

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High Ground Slayer will spawn you right next to enemies if you are anywhere near the cliff/shotgun area. This is such a joke so far. How did it take THIS long to make something this bad? They didn't even make the fucking maps!

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Yes. Hoping your opponent will be fooled is the very essence of Hologram. If your criteria is going to be so generalized then yes, Hologram only has one use: fooling your enemy. Ignoring the fact that fooling your enemy can occur under a variety of different situations for many different reasons.

You haven't provided different scenarios. Just blocking line of site then deploying hologram to hopefully fool an opponent. you provided one variation, blocking line of site, deploying a hologram, then pretending to be a hologram- a tweak to the same concept.

 

None of the scenarios require skill. And all of the outcomes are depended on hope rather than superior execution. therefore it's not a beneficial to gameplay.

 

anytime effective use boils down to a hope and a Hail Mary, it's not a compelling addition.

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Why does it take so long for shields to start charging in the classic playlist, why didn't they just decrease the speed at which it charges to emulate Halo 3?

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Well, if you are behind cover and your teammates are keeping their teammates busy then I don't see how this is such a far fatched situation. You can still defend yourself against flanking enemies. The real threat is the sniper trained on your position. I'm not exactly sure what you are asking me. Like I said, specific questions can be answered.

 

Your point, as i understand it, is that hologram would be a beneficial addition to the halo sandbox as an on map pickup. I disagree with that. I am attempting to prove that its impact on the game is very small and as a consequence should not be included in a halo game. I have provided examples of its minimal impact to prove that claim. I do not understand how my intent is unclear to you.

 

In reference to the point you made in the quoted post above: If your teammates are successfully preventing my teammates from attacking you, the hologram is not doing anything to help you.

 

The strongest decision you can make in this scenario is to rely on your teammates to break this stalemate by putting pressure on the sniper. As a result, the hologram goes unused by a player making the optimal decision.

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