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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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You need to nail down the higher level stuff first.  They are hardly similar at all... if you can't see that, there is no reason to even continue this discussion.

Try making a point besides "it's lame" and we could start considering this a discussion to begin with.

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What if we just focused on core concepts rather than adding in a ton of content in an attempt to offer variety that the core gameplay should offer? Why do we need to have a million things when one of the issues is already a redundancy. Hypotheticals are cool but if we can't grasp the core how is anything that we add more beneficial than "this is cool". Not all "cool" things work and I think Halo's progression has shown this.

 

Cujjer's post about map design and weapon layout hit the nail on the head.

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What if we just focused on core concepts rather than adding in a ton of content in an attempt to offer variety that the core gameplay should offer? Why do we need to have a million things when one of the issues is already a redundancy. Hypotheticals are cool but if we can't grasp the core how is anything that we add more beneficial than "this is cool". Not all "cool" things work and I think Halo's progression has shown this.

 

Cujjer's post about map design and weapon layout hit the nail on the head.

Link?

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Can you explain to me how a Camo user deciding when and where to reveal himself is good for gameplay but a Hologram user deciding when and where to reveal himself is bad for gameplay? These scenarios are similar is so many ways that I must be missing the key element that makes one good and the other bad.

Its not the decision on when to reveal that is bad.

 

Its the lack of agency regarding the success:

 

Its not fun to get douped into aiming at a player that isn't really a player.

 

Its not skillful to deploy a holo and hope someone falls for it.

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Try making a point besides "it's lame" and we could start considering this a discussion to begin with.

 

You are insufferable.  Others have already made the same points i would, so i felt no need.  Also, "its annoying and lame" is all that matters.  I have played against hologram on many occasions and tried to use it myself.  Its annoying.  and lame.  we know this from thousands of encounters across multiple games. That experience means more than anything.  Hologram is not fun.

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Its not the decision on when to reveal that is bad.

Its the lack of agency regarding the success:

Its not fun to get douped into aiming at a player that isn't really a player.

Its not skillful to deploy a holo and hope someone falls for it.

Every point you made could also be said about Camo.

 

"It's not skillful to be invisible and hope someone falls for it." What is the major difference that I'm missing?

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You are insufferable.  Others have already made the same points i would, so i felt no need.  Also, "its annoying and lame" is all that matters.  I have played against hologram on many occasions and tried to use it myself.  Its annoying.  and lame.  we know this from thousands of encounters across multiple games. That experience means more than anything.  Hologram is not fun.

Thank you person who has never once been tricked into making a bad decision because of a Hologram and died because of it. Forgive me if I don't really lend a lot a weight to your opinion because you are clearly lying. Like really, never once has Hologram been effective against you? Give me a fucking break guy.

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Every point you made could also be said about Camo.

 

"It's not skillful to be invisible and hope someone falls for it." What is the major difference that I'm missing?

 

Holy crap this has been covered man.  Hologram you just let loose.... and hope something good comes of it.

 

Camo makes you invisible and you actually have to make active, real-time decisions with it.  You can move more stealthily.  Should i let these players pass by then take them from behind? will that take took long and i need to go now?  I only have 40 seconds with this.  Do i use it to secure a weapon, or get a sneaky flag grab, do i risk going full speed and getting seen between A and B or stay slow and take more time but lower my risk of detection?

 

you make NONE of those decisions with hologram.

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Every point you made could also be said about Camo.

 

"It's not skillful to be invisible and hope someone falls for it." What is the major difference that I'm missing?

Effective Camo use doesnt boil down to hope. Staying out of sight, while effectively using the duration of the power up to deal damage is a skill.

 

Pressing the holo button when out of sight isn't a skill. And whether or not someone is fooled by the holo isn't a skill. Once you decide to press the button, nothing is up to the player.

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Thank you person who has never once been tricked into making a bad decision because of a Hologram and died because of it. Forgive me if I don't really lend a lot a weight to your opinion because you are clearly lying. Like really, never once has Hologram been effective against you? Give me a fucking break guy.

Holy FUCK man.  The worst thing that i even remember happening to me is shooting a hologram, seeing it flutter, and thinking, "goddamnit".

 

I have never chased a hologram and gotten ambushed.  or shot at it long enough that the guy that threw it out popped out and killed me.  I dont understand why that is so hard to believe.... 

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Holy crap this has been covered man. Hologram you just let loose.... and hope something good comes of it.

 

Camo makes you invisible and you actually have to make active, real-time decisions with it. You can move more stealthily. Should i let these players pass by then take them from behind? will that take took long and i need to go now? I only have 40 seconds with this. Do i use it to secure a weapon, or get a sneaky flag grab, do i risk going full speed and getting seen between A and B or stay slow and take more time but lower my risk of detection?

 

you make NONE of those decisions with hologram.

You make no real time decisions with Hologram? Isn't deciding when and where to deploy the Hologram a real time decision? Isn't deciding when to move from cover to attack the player you baited with the Hologram a real time decision? You are stating things that are demonstrably false.
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You make no real time decisions with Hologram? Isn't deciding when and where to deploy the Hologram a real time decision? Isn't deciding when to move from cover to attack the player you baited with the Hologram a real time decision? You are stating things that are demonstrably false.

 

Those are literally (and i mean that in a way that shouldn't piss off Hard Way) the only decisions you have to make with it.  And the effectiveness when someone does shoot at it is very limited, if someone doesn't realize its a hologram after 1 shot, they're an idiot.

 

The decisions you have to make with camo are variable and almost infinite.  And you have to be making them the whole time you have it and actually execute on your decision making properly.

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hologram shouldnt be a thing in halo because it's simply not effective 

 

why even waste the time and effort adding it?

You've never once been fooled by a Hologram?

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You make no real time decisions with Hologram? Isn't deciding when and where to deploy the Hologram a real time decision? Isn't deciding when to move from cover to attack the player you baited with the Hologram a real time decision? You are stating things that are demonstrably false.

None of these decisons are deep or skillful.

 

You deploy the hologram when you aren't seen. You then HOPE someone is fooled. And you pop out when you THINK their attention is on the holo.

 

Thats the entirety of hologram meta.

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None of these decisons are deep or skillful.

You deploy the hologram when you aren't seen. You then HOPE someone is fooled. And you pop out when you THINK their attention is on the holo.

Thats the entirety of hologram meta.

So you admit that Hologram does have some meta? There is some skill in deploying it successfully?

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So you admit that Hologram does have some meta? There is some skill in deploying it successfully?

There is as much skill in hologram as rock paper scissors

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There is as much skill in hologram as rock paper scissors

That's not an apt analogy. Expand on how rocks paper scissors is similar to Hologram if you want to convince me because I'm not buying it right now.

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Those are literally (and i mean that in a way that shouldn't piss off Hard Way) the only decisions you have to make with it. And the effectiveness when someone does shoot at it is very limited, if someone doesn't realize its a hologram after 1 shot, they're an idiot.

 

The decisions you have to make with camo are variable and almost infinite. And you have to be making them the whole time you have it and actually execute on your decision making properly.

Having your opponent looking and shooting in the wrong direction when you begin attacking them seems like a pretty big advantage.

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You've never once been fooled by a Hologram?

literally once

 

i'm sure they could implement hologram to make it more effective and believable but idk, seems like a lot of wasted dev time

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Having your opponent looking and shooting in the wrong direction when you begin attacking them seems like a pretty big advantage.

Unless you are playing against literal game journalists or an average 80 year old, it's best to just not use holo as it gives away your position.

 

I have never been out played because of a hologram. What kind of player walks in a straight line and doesn't move the right stick? If anything, sending out a hologram just puts you at a disadvantage, cause now your opponent is looking your direction.

 

Send a hologram down long hall on The Pit for example, now they know where you are. Send one down but don't follow it? Now it's beyond useless.

 

The only way holo would work AT ALL is if it acted like enemy AI for a sec and shot blanks at you or even maybe acted like it was real for one shot of damage, but then it's just become too useful and completely unfun to play against.

 

Edit: We've gone over this so many times. Why add stuff just because? That's kinda why Halo is in the state it's in now, they thought like Boyo and added whatever the hell they felt like it while ignoring the core gameplay.

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Unless you are playing against literal game journalists or an average 80 year old, it's best to just not use holo as it gives away your position.

 

I have never been out played because of a hologram. What kind of player walks in a straight line and doesn't move the right stick? If anything, sending out a hologram just puts you at a disadvantage, cause now your opponent is looking your direction.

 

Send a hologram down long hall on The Pit for example, now they know where you are. Send one down but don't follow it? Now it's beyond useless.

 

The only way holo would work AT ALL is if it acted like enemy AI for a sec and shot blanks at you or even maybe acted like it was real for one shot of damage, but then it's just become too useful and completely unfun to play against.

 

Edit: We've gone over this so many times. Why add stuff just because? That's kinda why Halo is in the state it's in now, they thought like Boyo and added whatever the hell they felt like it while ignoring the core gameplay.

Do you normally zig zag down the hallways on Pit, banging into the walls as you go? Or do you run down a straight hallway in pretty much a straight line?

 

And if an enemy is looking at your Hologram down one hallway while you outflank him by traveling through another, isn't that an advantage?

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