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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Honestly it really would not be hard to recreate the classic Halo style. You just have to pick one of the first three and totally steal everything about the base player traits, FoV, etc. Tweak anything that's obviously bad like Halo CE jump lag, H2 aim assist, or H3 FoV. Remake a bunch of maps from whichever you pick and then create like 9 new maps. The creative thinking is pretty much already done for whoever decides to do it if it ever happens.

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Honestly it really would not be hard to recreate the classic Halo style. You just have to pick one of the first three and totally steal everything about the base player traits, FoV, etc. Tweak anything that's obviously bad like Halo CE jump lag, H2 aim assist, or H3 FoV. Remake a bunch of maps from whichever you pick and then create like 9 new maps. The creative thinking is pretty much already done for whoever decides to do it if it ever happens.

This. There's nothing about classic halo that would make it more difficult to develop than any other shooter...

 

Its just that no dev has set out to emulate classic halo...

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I just see it differently. I have a job that I do because I want money. I don't necessarily want to do the job, but I need to make money and it's tolerable. The fact that I am working a job for monetary purposes has no negative impact on the work that I do. I do the best job possible. That's why I think "who cares if Bungie wants to do it or not". Developing games is a job, not Disneyland. If the money is there, I have full faith that they are more than capable of making a great original formula Halo again.

I see what you're trying to say here but it doesn't work with a creative project like a video game. A lot of games suffer because the people who work on them are not passionate about the project.

 

Imagine if Banksy was told what to paint rather than doing what he wanted for example.

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Remake a bunch of maps from whichever you pick and then create like 9 new maps. The creative thinking is pretty much already done for whoever decides to do it if it ever happens.

 

Does anyone know about the legal aspects of remaking maps from other franchises? I imagine literally ripping all the textures could get a dev into trouble, but is the bare geometry also protected by copyright and could result in said dev getting sued?

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Does anyone know about the legal aspects of remaking maps from other franchises? I imagine literally ripping all the textures could get a dev into trouble, but is the bare geometry also protected by copyright and could result in said dev getting sued?

 

Brick for brick remakes are definitely infringement. More so if you use any of the original assets like textures or models. I remember in my forge days, Bungie wouldn't consider any direct remakes for matchmaking due to copyright concerns.

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Does anyone know about the legal aspects of remaking maps from other franchises? I imagine literally ripping all the textures could get a dev into trouble, but is the bare geometry also protected by copyright and could result in said dev getting sued?

I know the installation 01 guys are only ok because they have created all original assets and aren't making any money.

 

The money part is key. As soon as a studio tried to make a game that smells like halo and make money they would get sued 6 ways to Sunday.

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Why don't you like the Speedboost power up?

 

In a game with sprint, its terribly redundant and useless.

In a game without it, It sits firmly in the "well i guess if i happen upon it i'll pick it up but i'm not about to go out of my way or 'set up' for that shit" category. Which makes me wonder, if its not worth it, why is it on the map? 

I guess don't have a problem with it existing as a thing.  Its not exactly something that should take more than a day to implement. Copy/paste OS mechanic. edit "aura" to white instead of green. Edit trait modifier from shield to 130ish% movement speed. done. You don't really need to balance it. You don't need to take it into account with map design. But at the same time, i don't see that it actually adds any kind of value to the game whatsoever.

 

Thats why i think the mini-me power up would be idiotic.  It would take more time to create and test technically. But it would also need to be specifically designed around if it were to have any kind if efficacy, adding an extra variable to map design in what would ultimately just come off as a silly gimmick that's totally ridiculous even for a futuristic sci-fi game.

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In a game with sprint, its terribly redundant and useless.

In a game without it, It sits firmly in the "well i guess if i happen upon it i'll pick it up but i'm not about to go out of my way or 'set up' for that shit" category. Which makes me wonder, if its not worth it, why is it on the map? 

I guess don't have a problem with it existing as a thing.  Its not exactly something that should take more than a day to implement. Copy/paste OS mechanic. edit "aura" to white instead of green. Edit trait modifier from shield to 130ish% movement speed. done. You don't really need to balance it. You don't need to take it into account with map design. But at the same time, i don't see that it actually adds any kind of value to the game whatsoever.

 

Thats why i think the mini-me power up would be idiotic.  It would take more time to create and test technically. But it would also need to be specifically designed around if it were to have any kind if efficacy, adding an extra variable to map design in what would ultimately just come off as a silly gimmick that's totally ridiculous even for a futuristic sci-fi game.

Why are you so hung up on development time? Why not look at mechanics in the light of "good for gameplay" or "bad for gameplay"?

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In a game with sprint, its terribly redundant and useless.

In a game without it, It sits firmly in the "well i guess if i happen upon it i'll pick it up but i'm not about to go out of my way or 'set up' for that shit" category. Which makes me wonder, if its not worth it, why is it on the map?

I guess don't have a problem with it existing as a thing. Its not exactly something that should take more than a day to implement. Copy/paste OS mechanic. edit "aura" to white instead of green. Edit trait modifier from shield to 130ish% movement speed. done. You don't really need to balance it. You don't need to take it into account with map design. But at the same time, i don't see that it actually adds any kind of value to the game whatsoever.

 

Thats why i think the mini-me power up would be idiotic. It would take more time to create and test technically. But it would also need to be specifically designed around if it were to have any kind if efficacy, adding an extra variable to map design in what would ultimately just come off as a silly gimmick that's totally ridiculous even for a futuristic sci-fi game.

Pretty spot on. Doom has a "haste"pickup that not only makes you run faster but makes all the guns shoot faster. Pretty much combines DB and speed boost. Cool powerup imo

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Pretty spot on. Doom has a "haste"pickup that not only makes you run faster but makes all the guns shoot faster. Pretty much combines DB and speed boost. Cool powerup imo

 

Yeah I've always thought of the ideal Speed Boost/Haste power-up as: "What if my spartan was on meth?"

 

All animations would be faster (Weapon switch, reload, grenades, all of it), he'd move a little faster but mainly the acceleration would be buffed, and maybe shoot a little faster but not enough that it would overlap in usage with a Damage Boost.

 

In Halo 5 it seemed like a missed opportunity that it didn't drastically increase animation speeds because that would have felt really strong in a game where everything moves so fast.

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Why are you so hung up on development time? Why not look at mechanics in the light of "good for gameplay" or "bad for gameplay"?

 

1) Development is what i do.  I see how resource constraints/feature creep force sacrifices to be made in other areas all the time.  Its always important to consider.

2) If you were paying attention, i addressed both the mechanic itself and the dev time aspect but i'll go over it again.  

 

Speedboost is "meh" because it doesn't really add much value to the game, but doesn't take anything away either and is easy to create. So go for it.   

"mini me" is silly at best, stupid and cringy at worst, would take more time to develop individually and add another unnecessary variable to account for in map design.  You would be forced to feature it somewhere, otherwise what was the point?  The purpose of that particular power up is to allow for pathing changes that are very limited in scope (you're changing the map design dynamically in a way that only one person can take advantage of).  When there is another, simpler mechanic that can be used more liberally with less risk (a switch), why waste time reinventing the wheel?

 

 

 

Pretty spot on. Doom has a "haste"pickup that not only makes you run faster but makes all the guns shoot faster. Pretty much combines DB and speed boost. Cool powerup imo

  

Yeah I've always thought of the ideal Speed Boost/Haste power-up as: "What if my spartan was on meth?"

 

All animations would be faster (Weapon switch, reload, grenades, all of it), he'd move a little faster but mainly the acceleration would be buffed, and maybe shoot a little faster but not enough that it would overlap in usage with a Damage Boost.

 

In Halo 5 it seemed like a missed opportunity that it didn't drastically increase animations because that would have felt really strong in a game where everything moves so fast.

Edit: saw these ^ after i posted but yes this would be an implementation more worthy of "going out of my way for".  

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Pretty spot on. Doom has a "haste"pickup that not only makes you run faster but makes all the guns shoot faster. Pretty much combines DB and speed boost. Cool powerup imo

 

Yeah I've always thought of the ideal Speed Boost/Haste power-up as: "What if my spartan was on meth?"

 

All animations would be faster (Weapon switch, reload, grenades, all of it), he'd move a little faster but mainly the acceleration would be buffed, and maybe shoot a little faster but not enough that it would overlap in usage with a Damage Boost.

 

Edit: saw these ^ after i posted but yes this would be an implementation more worthy of "going out of my way for".  

 

I've posted about Haste before, I would love to see it in Halo. It combines the good aspects of both speed and damage boost, which are kinda bad on their own and it elegantly acts as a DPS boost without breaking the sandbox.

 

From my DOOM experience, Haste is also kind of ignored when compared to Quad Damage, Invisibility and Regeneration. But we have to keep in mind that a possible Halo version of Haste would be stronger, as OS and Camo aren't as strong as Doom's power ups, especially Quad Damage and then there's also no reloading and limited nade usage in Doom. A Halo Haste would obviously have to be tested, but I could definitely see it working as the third major powerup.

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I thought about making one of these videos. He does a pretty good job of covering a lot of ground without going into too much depth about the problems.

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Why are you so hung up on development time? Why not look at mechanics in the light of "good for gameplay" or "bad for gameplay"?

Having to design maps around a gimmick power up WOULD be bad for gameplay.

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ske7ch made an update in the weapon tuning thread. I quoted the important points.

 

 

A few misc. comments in response to posts I've seen over the last 57 pages:

 

1. There won't be another iteration to this playlist during this test. The schedule unfortunately doesn't allow for it. Instead, the team is working on parallel iteration right now internally based on feedback, data, and the survey results (surveys were sent out this past week). The team will come up with new/revised/final tunings as needed and that's what will roll out in the November update. We do want to make sure that players get a chance to test those changes as well - they should be better aligned in response to data/feedback but admittedly may not be quite perfect yet. The team has a plan to allow for another round of iteration and updating following the November update if needed.

 

2. HCFP surveys were sent out last week to some participants. Not everyone will get one - I'm not sure what qualifiers they used but people were likely selected based on things like how many games they played, their history with Halo 5 (and prior Halo games), their general play habits and styles, etc... The user research team needs to get a thorough but representative sample.

 

4. The BR is clearly the hottest topic of all in this test. The points about 'inconsistent feel' and 'random spread', etc.. has definitely been received by the team. (I can't accurately speak to the mechanical changes nor how accurate those assessments may/may not be) But the feedback has been heard loud and clear.

 

6. When the final changes are determined and locked for the November update, we will absolutely go into specific details of exactly what's changed and share the reasoning for the change and the tuning test metrics/results that helped inform those decisions.

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/weapon-tuning-test---phase-two-feedback---9-11/e3ef4d10-968f-4680-9665-e5f92ab31f76/posts?page=58#post1151

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But the feedback has been heard loud and clear.

If they keep the random spread on the BR man...

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@@Apoll0

 

I agree. Speedboost is useless. Nobody wants to reach locations faster, have a better strafe, or traverse the map in a more unpredictable manner.

 

Especially in objective gametypes, being able to move with the ball faster, or get to a new hill faster, or carry a flag faster isn't something anyone would be interested in.

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If they keep the random spread on the BR man...

 

I swear I've heard 343 say that thing about feedback before. Not sure where that's got us before!

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Brick for brick remakes are definitely infringement. More so if you use any of the original assets like textures or models. I remember in my forge days, Bungie wouldn't consider any direct remakes for matchmaking due to copyright concerns.

 

 

I know the installation 01 guys are only ok because they have created all original assets and aren't making any money.

 

The money part is key. As soon as a studio tried to make a game that smells like halo and make money they would get sued 6 ways to Sunday.

 

Thanks guys. Yeah I've never seen remakes from other games make it into MM in any game. I wonder how this would change for spiritual sucessors rather than remakes. For example, H4's Meltdown is very close in shape and overall design to CE's Infinity, H3's Avalanche to Sidewinder or Valhalla and Blood Gulch.

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@@Apoll0

 

I agree. Speedboost is useless. Nobody wants to reach locations faster, have a better strafe, or traverse the map in a more unpredictable manner.

 

Especially in objective gametypes, being able to move with the ball faster, or get to a new hill faster, or carry a flag faster isn't something anyone would be interested in.

You already have Sprint making it redundant. I'm going to change my route around the map so I can go Sprint speed without pushing a button for 40 seconds? No I'm not.

 

It's doesn't let you sneak more effectively. It doesn't let you take more damage. It's doesn't let you do more damage. As we saw with sword on truth CTF, being able to move an objective significantly faster comes with it's own set of problems.

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You already have Sprint making it redundant. I'm going to change my route around the map so I can go Sprint speed without pushing a button for 40 seconds? No I'm not.

 

It's doesn't let you sneak more effectively. It doesn't let you take more damage. It's doesn't let you do more damage. As we saw with sword on truth CTF, being able to move an objective significantly faster comes with it's own set of problems.

That's what makes OV and Camo so good. They are powerful enough to sway the course of the game yet maps don't need any special accommodations for their existence.

 

When you start screwing with movement, you are adding pressure to the map designer and opening up an avenue for unintended exploits.

 

Haste sounds like it could be a more useful addition to the sandbox- it won't break maps and it doesn't reduce the need for aim skill. I dont know if it would have the game-swinging potential of OV an Camo though.

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@@Apoll0

 

I agree. Speedboost is useless. Nobody wants to reach locations faster, have a better strafe, or traverse the map in a more unpredictable manner.

 

Especially in objective gametypes, being able to move with the ball faster, or get to a new hill faster, or carry a flag faster isn't something anyone would be interested in.

 

No one is saying Speedboost is completely useless, especially in objective gametypes it does have its advantages. What people are saying is that it doesn't offer enough of an advantage when compared to OS, Camo or Rockets, Sniper or Railgun.

 

Imagine Speed Boost instead of OS on Construct KOTH. Would anyone drop from closed street or lobby down to basement to secure Speed Boost? Hell no, it just doesn't offer enough benefit to risk your life and map control to secure it, while the items I mentioned above do. And it is in fact almost useless in Slayer, especially on slow setup-oriented maps where you need to hold your teammates hands at any given time to win.

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At this point, all I can hope for is for Joseph Staten to return to Halo.  Unfortunately, that probably won't happen either.

 

Staten wrote Shadow of Intent recently, which may seem like a good sign but as I understand, it was only because Frankie begged him to.

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At this point, all I can hope for is for Joseph Staten to return to Halo. Unfortunately, that probably won't happen either.

 

Staten wrote Shadow of Intent recently, which may seem like a good sign but as I understand, it was only because Frankie begged him to.

There's no writing out of the hole Halo 5 dug is into...

 

They need to do some Pre-Reach prequels so we can go back to having fun enemies and logical plots.

 

And for those that think the narrative should dictate gameplay, we'd have a lore based excuse to go back to good gameplay mechanics.

 

Kill all the birds with one stone.

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