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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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They've buffed her like 9 times even though she was already top 5 most played lol. Now she's just insane. Invincibility, faster self healing, res through walls. Geez. @@Basu don't worry bro they know EXACTLY what they need to do. They're thinking about giving Junkrat 2 mines! Super balance!

I've played the new Junkrat. He's fun as hell but super scary. His ult is to be feared again.

 

The new FFA and 4v4 DM are actually awesome though.

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I can't play overwatch anymore.  There are so many characters that are not fun to play as, and just straight up fucking annoying to play against.

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I can't play overwatch anymore.  There are so many characters that are not fun to play as, and just straight up fucking annoying to play against.

I don't have any real problems with heroes other than Mercy and maybe now Doomfist's 1hk ability. I have fun playing most heroes and have "main'ed" a different hero every season.

 

I played an FFA Ana only 1sk mode (no nades obv.) and had a ton of fun. I can't wait to see what kind of cool settings people come up with now that we have DM and FFA.

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I don't have any real problems with heroes other than Mercy and maybe now Doomfist's 1hk ability. I have fun playing most heroes and have "main'ed" a different hero every season.

 

I played an FFA Ana only 1sk mode (no nades obv.) and had a ton of fun. I can't wait to see what kind of cool settings people come up with now that we have DM and FFA.

Doomfist's 1hk and Hanzo's scatter are the 2 most annoying abilities for me. Excluding Mercy of course.
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It's really not that simple.

It really is that simple.

 

It's about meeting customers where they are.

 

There is, undeniably, a market for game altering MTs. GTA, EA sports, 2K sports, COD and Halo 5 to a lesser degree are profitable examples of that.

 

There is also a market for costmetic only MTs. CSGO and Destiny, Overwatch are undeniably profitable examples of that.

 

You haven't provided a single reason why the two models can't coexist in a game. Instead you keep arguing why one is "better" than the other- which is totally besides the point.

 

If Halo implemented both- Cosmetics for the entire game + game altering MTs only in Warzone - the revenue would be higher than if they just use one or the other.

 

It's simple math.

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It really is that simple.

 

It's about meeting customers where they are.

 

There is, undeniably, a market for game altering MTs. GTA, EA sports, 2K sports, COD and Halo 5 to a lesser degree are profitable examples of that.

 

There is also a market for costmetic only MTs. CSGO and Destiny, Overwatch are undeniably profitable examples of that.

 

You haven't provided a single reason why the two models can't coexist in a game. Instead you keep arguing why one is "better" than the other- which is totally besides the point.

 

If Halo implemented both- Cosmetics for the entire game + game altering MTs only in Warzone - the revenue would be higher than if they just use one or the other.

 

It's simple math.

Let's charge $100 A ticket to our football games. And then if people want to look at the jumb-o-tron we'll charge them $2 a look. $25 extra to stay for the "optional" fourth quarter.

 

More profit! It's math!

 

Oh shit. People stopped coming to the games.

 

When you put collectibles in your game. Even if it's only one section of your games. Many people will feel obliged to play it. Of course due to being designed around game chnging microtransactions that part of the game will naturally suck ass. This can cause people to not play the game at all.

 

Every single franchise that has added game altering microtransactions has seen population decline or just straight up terrible population figures.

 

Can you point out a franchise that has added game altering microtransactions that has seen population growth?

 

You will make more money off of growing a larger player base even if you draw less money per person.

 

If I have a store that attracts 1000 customers a day and they spend an average of $5 I'll be more profitable then your store that draws 250 people a day who spend $10 On average.

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Doomfist's 1hk and Hanzo's scatter are the 2 most annoying abilities for me. Excluding Mercy of course.

I think his 1hk needs a longer charge to reach the 1hk potential, and be a lot more noticeable when it's charging audibly. I catch way too many people running around corners because they didn't hear it charging I suppose.

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I think his 1hk needs a longer charge to reach the 1hk potential, and be a lot more noticeable when it's charging audibly. I catch way too many people running around corners because they didn't hear it charging I suppose.

The biggest problem was the hitbox, which is already fixed in the PTR. These new DVA changes though...

 

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758746118?page=2#post-30

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Let's charge $100 A ticket to our football games. And then if people want to look at the jumb-o-tron we'll charge them $2 a look. $25 extra to stay for the "optional" fourth quarter.

 

More profit! It's math!

 

Oh shit. People stopped coming to the games.

 

When you put collectibles in your game. Even if it's only one section of your games. Many people will feel obliged to play it. Of course due to being designed around game chnging microtransactions that part of the game will naturally suck ass. This can cause people to not play the game at all.

 

Every single franchise that has added game altering microtransactions has seen population decline or just straight up terrible population figures.

 

Can you point out a franchise that has added game altering microtransactions that has seen population growth?

 

You will make more money off of growing a larger player base even if you draw less money per person.

 

If I have a store that attracts 1000 customers a day and they spend an average of $5 I'll be more profitable then your store that draws 250 people a day who spend $10 On average.

What at totally incompatible analogy.

 

I'm talking about adding a game mode that can cost extra while keeping the existing experience the same.

 

Your analogy just puts a paywall before existing experiences.

 

Here's an analogy that actually uses the ideas that are being presented:

 

Lets add a casino to the stadium. No added cost for the jumbotron or 4th quarter or any of the nonsensical strawman BS you brought up.

 

People who dont like to gamble watch the game as they always have at the same price they always have. Those who DO like to gamble hit the slots.

 

More profit without impacting the normal experience at all.

 

So GTAV one of the most popular games in the world has seen population declines? The primary cause of population decline is a game not being fun. Poorly implemented MTs can contribute to a game not being fun, but it isnt neccisarily the cause. Correlation does not equal causation.

 

Without warzone h5, halo still has a poorly balanced sandbox, bugged aiming, terrible playlist management, missing content, no local MP and a worst ever campaign. Thats why the population tanked. If these issues werent present at launch, those who dont like Warzone would have still liked and played the game.

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What at totally incompatible analogy.

 

I'm talking about adding a game mode that can cost extra while keeping the existing experience the same.

 

Your analogy just puts a paywall before existing experiences.

 

Here's an analogy that actually uses the ideas that are being presented:

 

Lets add a casino to the stadium. No added cost for the jumbotron or 4th quarter or any of the nonsensical strawman BS you brought up.

 

People who dont like to gamble watch the game as they always have at the same price they always have. Those who DO like to gamble hit the slots.

 

More profit without impacting the normal experience at all.

 

So GTAV one of the most popular games in the world has seen population declines? The primary cause of population decline is a game not being fun. Poorly implemented MTs can contribute to a game not being fun, but it isnt neccisarily the cause. Correlation does not equal causation.

 

Without warzone h5, halo still has a poorly balanced sandbox, bugged aiming, terrible playlist management, missing content, no local MP and a worst ever campaign. Thats why the population tanked. If these issues werent present at launch, those who dont like Warzone would have still liked and played the game.

Essentially our disagreement stems from you stating that no matter what, game changing microtransactions will make more money.

 

Which obviously isn't true. As you've stated yourself it's all about the execution.

 

I can't see any shooter that even somewhat aims to be balanced pulling this off. Halo is the least likely as it's the most balance intensive and has the least competent developer.

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Essentially our disagreement stems from you stating that no matter what, game changing microtransactions will make more money.

 

Which obviously isn't true. As you've stated yourself it's all about the execution.

 

I can't see any shooter that even somewhat aims to be balanced pulling this off. Halo is the least likely as it's the most balance intensive and has the least competent developer.

Adequate execution being necessary goes without saying... without that, non of the monetization scenes work... besides that i detailed explicitly how it would need to be executed.

 

Halo should be the easiest to pull off because in the core game, progression has no bearing on the sandbox. Simply banish the rng system to Warzone - and allow the rest of the game functions as it always has.

 

The problems come from trying to heavy-handedly divert people to the RNG. In halo5, that materialized by dissolving the progression system and tying customization to RNG. There's simply no need to do that - its bad exection. Not only do Warzone fans dislike getting fucking visors in req packs when they are hunting weapons but core halo fans dislike not having any real agency over their spartan or their progression.

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Thoughts about Halo 5's skill gap compared to the "classic" Halo games (lets say H2 and H3 in this case), on an individual and teamplay level? 

 

IMO, H5's pace, abilities, and ttk make it more difficult to carry a game through individual skill and requires more coordinated teamplay. Hence, the abundance of solidly skilled pros but a clear lack of contenders in the competitive scene - and also the sizable gap between AM and pro teams. (Until very recently when Splyce broke out as a top team). 

 

Whereas in older Halo's, individual gunskill was more impactful in the sense that 1vX situations were more manageable. Not to say that team-shooting and coordination wasn't required in those games as well. 

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Thoughts about Halo 5's skill gap compared to the "classic" Halo games (lets say H2 and H3 in this case), on an individual and teamplay level?

 

IMO, H5's pace, abilities, and ttk make it more difficult to carry a game through individual skill and requires more coordinated teamplay. Hence, the abundance of solidly skilled pros but a clear lack of contenders in the competitive scene - and also the sizable gap between AM and pro teams. (Until very recently when Splyce broke out as a top team).

 

Whereas in older Halo's, individual gunskill was more impactful in the sense that 1vX situations were more manageable. Not to say that team-shooting and coordination wasn't required in those games as well.

A lot of people may not agree but I believe the skill gaps from H2-H5 are more or less similar, with CE being the obvious outlier. I'm not even a CE purist either.

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Thoughts about Halo 5's skill gap compared to the "classic" Halo games (lets say H2 and H3 in this case), on an individual and teamplay level?

 

IMO, H5's pace, abilities, and ttk make it more difficult to carry a game through individual skill and requires more coordinated teamplay. Hence, the abundance of solidly skilled pros but a clear lack of contenders in the competitive scene - and also the sizable gap between AM and pro teams. (Until very recently when Splyce broke out as a top team).

 

Whereas in older Halo's, individual gunskill was more impactful in the sense that 1vX situations were more manageable. Not to say that team-shooting and coordination wasn't required in those games as well.

If I was generous, I'd say H5 has an equivalent skill gap to previous Halo games, but that skillgap is based solely on unwanted elements.
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If I was generous, I'd say H5 has an equivalent skill gap to previous Halo games, but that skillgap is based solely on unwanted elements.

Not true. Shooting takes more skill in h5 than h2. H2 is so easy in retrospect

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Not true. Shooting takes more skill in h5 than h2. H2 is so easy in retrospect

Yeah you live in a delusional world if you think that. When Reach came out I remember being annoyed at how much auto aim everything had. Felt too easy to shoot.

 

When Halo 4 came out I thought it was even WORSE.

 

H2A was even WORSE than 4.

 

And H5 gunplay makes ever game I've ever played seem like a master class in gunskill. I have never seen an entire weapon sandbox so convoluted with copious auto aim and bullet magnetism the way H5 has it. Hell I played H4 on MCC and the railgun felt HARD to use, like what the fuck are our standards now. The only semblance of difficulty comes from the gimped aiming and idiotic thrust. H5s gunplay is the easiest I've seen in a shooter maybe ever.

 

I also have been playing V7 doubles lately on backwards compatible and it feels worlds harder than I remember. That's what happens when you play H5, you get babied.

 

 

I'll recognise that H5 is the only Halo with true movement tech but it's done in such an abomination of a way I don't even care.

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Youre completely delusional if you really thinnk that. H2 is far and away the easiest in terms if gun skill. It was impossible to turn around and out shoot someone who had first shot.

 

 

H5 is mostly fought in white reticue ranges, which is easily the most skilful weve had since h1. Even within red ranges, coupled with the movement, it still is harder than h2. H2 was so teamshot heavy because of the ease of aiming.

 

 

H5 bullet mag is obscene but the auto aim is really no different than the predecessors

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Not true. Shooting takes more skill in h5 than h2. H2 is so easy in retrospect

Besides the pistol  (which is also way too easy and has too little range for a "skill based utility weapon") every H5 weapon has way more aim assist and especially bullet mag than its H2 counterpart. Also remember that in H5 you move like a turtle unless you are sprinting or thrusting (or abusing slidejumpthrust), while in H2 you have a great strafe at your disposal. And on top of that, the easiest weapons in the sandbox aka autos are now suddenly the most powerful.

H5 has the easiest sandbox of any Halo to date besides maybe The 4 (again the pistol is H5's only redeeming quality here) And that's not even factoring in other elements of the Sandbox like Melee, Splinter Grenades, broken vehicles like the Wasp and Banshee or the broken-by-design REQ weapons (yeah they're supposed to be better but most of them are just "press RT to win")

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Anybody else feel like they have been dying mid-thrust a lot more lately?  Obviously the kill-shot came before the thrust actually happened, but its been happening to me more than ever the last couple weeks.

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