Jump to content
CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Recommended Posts

I was thinking that it could also be the only projectile capable of going through shield doors and Jackal Shields too.

 

Enemy thinks he's safe dancing behind Snowbound's shield door? Not so fast buster!

 

Enemy thinks he's safe crouching behind his Jackal Shield? Guess again goober!

 

Plus, I would also add a vehicle that has a hard light dome protecting the operator. It could counter that as well.

I will say making the boltshot a "slug" charge up is pretty decent in giving it further distinction from a shotgun role weapon.

 

If I was in charge of the sandbox of H4, I would have simply dropped the Scattershot and applied bouncy shots to the boltshot.

 

 

The idea of a a bouncy, bright orange tangerine slug of Death is somewhat amusing.

Share this post


Link to post

To fix the bolt shot, you go back to the h4 bolt shot, but up the effectiveness of the single shots (give them the scattershot bounce properties) . Id take this in competitive over the shotgun & scattershot anyday.

 

Boyo's idea has some concepts that would be decent improvements to the railgun.

 

No, all weapons should not be power weapons.

Share this post


Link to post

Truthm.jpg

 

Colourized photo of the Prophet of Reiku78 interrogating person with criticism of Halo 5 and 343 on r/Halo - Circa. 2017

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

I will say making the boltshot a "slug" charge up is pretty decent in giving it further distinction from a shotgun role weapon.

If I was in charge of the sandbox of H4, I would have simply dropped the Scattershot and applied bouncy shots to the boltshot.

The idea of a a bouncy, bright orange tangerine slug of Death is somewhat amusing.

In my mind, the Spiker would be the weapon with the ability to bounce shots off walls. In addition, it would also have "Plasma Stun". It makes more sense to me that a spike can bounce off a hard surface and that getting hit with a spike would slow your movement for a moment.

 

Plus, I think seeing a barrage of spikes coming at me from around a corner has a nice terror factor. Add in the fact that if one hits you, it becomes harder to dodge the rest and you have a weapon to be feared.

 

I guess my point is, I thinking bouncing projectiles would work best on an automatic weapon.

Share this post


Link to post

No, all weapons should not be power weapons.

But do you see how giving the Spiker the ability to bounce and the ability to stun makes it a powerful weapon in certain circumstances? Not a power weapon per se but something more than just a run of the mill automatic.

 

And I haven't even told you the best part yet. Clicking scope on the Spiker fires a "Clawline" (a grappling hook essentially) that, if it impacts something, quickly pulls you there. It has limited range (think going from ring 1 to ring 2 on sanc maximum) and it has a cool down after use but it does enhance your base movement.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

But do you see how giving the Spiker the ability to bounce and the ability to stun makes it a powerful weapon in certain circumstances? Not a power weapon per se but something more than just a run of the mill automatic.

 

And I haven't even told you the best part yet. Clicking scope on the Spiker fires a "Clawline" (a grappling hook essentially) that, if it impacts something, quickly pulls you there. It has limited range (think going from ring 1 to ring 2 on sanc maximum) and it has a cool down after use but it does enhance your base movement.

I think giving weapons niche use cases is different from making them all powerweapons.

 

I'm ALL for thinking outside the box with respect to how weapons function in the sandbox. I really like the idea of replacing smart scope with secondary fire modes for some weapons.

Share this post


Link to post

the big problem with the laser was how instantly it fucked vehicles from any range, so how do you address the kill time and range of a laser weapon.

 

 

Just to snowball ideas, do you guys remember how the sentinel beam in H3 had the laser bend when you changed direction quickly when firing it? Could be interesting for making it more difficult to use long range, making the laser bend behind.

 

As for the instakill, what about instead of being one relatively instant burst, after you charged it up you could keep holding the trigger and the laser would keep firing and depleting energy. Would take like one second of consecutive laser fire to destroy a vehicle or something idk

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

the big problem with the laser was how instantly it fucked vehicles from any range, so how do you address the kill time and range of a laser weapon.

 

 

Just to snowball ideas, do you guys remember how the sentinel beam in H3 had the laser bend when you changed direction quickly when firing it? Could be interesting for making it more difficult to use long range, making the laser bend behind.

 

As for the instakill, what about instead of being one relatively instant burst, after you charged it up you could keep holding the trigger and the laser would keep firing and depleting energy. Would take like one second of consecutive laser fire to destroy a vehicle or something idk

They already made the laser pretty shit post h3.

Share this post


Link to post

They already made the laser pretty shit post h3.

Yeah because it was just weak lol the post H3 laser is dumb too, just in a different way.

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah because it was just weak lol the post H3 laser is dumb too, just in a different way.

IIRC the Reach laser functions like your idea, you have to stay on target to deal maximum damage. It was completely awful against infantry though.

Share this post


Link to post

The Plasma Launcher could have two distinct fire-modes it can be toggled between by clicking the scope button: "Launcher Mode" and "Detonator Mode". Launcher mode would function like the Reach Plasma Launcher (except it no longer has a scope you can activate).

 

In Detonator Mode, the weapon can semi-automatically fire up to 4 plasma explosives that stick where they impact until you remote-detonate them.  The weapon does not automatically reload when the magazine is empty.  You have to manually reload the weapon by hitting the X button.

 

The plasma explosives can all be simultaneously detonated by reloading the weapon or detonated individually using the Directional Pad.  Up on the D-Pad detonates the first plasma explosive fired from that magazine, right the second, down the third, and left the fourth.  The plasma explosives will detonate automatically if shot or exposed to explosive damage.

Share this post


Link to post

I think my overall preference for a weapon sandbox is something that is similar to quake or halo CE, where it's actually a relatively small amount of weapons that all have niche roles and purposes. While I do enjoy dual weapon functions or alternate fires, I would rather keep things simple in Halo and not go over board with all the weapons.

 

If I had to make the choice for Halo 6, I would prefer it if they got rid of the redundant weapons and gave them all a secondary function if that meant getting a more diversely balanced sandbox

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

And we are back to "split fire modes" for weapons again lol. We have come full Halo.

 

Well, while we are all reiterating might as well join in.

 

Split fire modes sounds awesome on paper, in practice it can get muddy and redundant quickly.

 

A few weapons, say 15-20% of the sandbox with dual fire modes is cool, especially when used to give otherwise redundant weaponry a reason to exist (Plasma Pistol and the H4 Boltshot being good examples of that)

 

But when you start to make that a third, half or more, I think it becomes a gimmick, and it makes the weapons of the sandbox less predictable. You are starting to create the potential for what is essentially players having 4 weapons at once.

 

I would much rather have a sandbox filled with standalone weapons appropriately balanced for ease of use with either simple, niche roles (Sniper, Shotgun) highly skillful multi range weapons (GL) or weapons with unique mechanics like the Plasma Launcher that have a lot of apllications to a skillful player, than sandbox filled with weapons with shoehorned split fire modes where one or two modes lack much depth at all (Halo 5). I would still prefer it if they had depth because I think it makes for a better sandbox to have those modes as unique weapons all placed on maps, more to contest and a greater potential for totally unique map weapon sets that can help in crafting a unique experiance. A sandbox with 20 totally unique one fire mode weapons that cannot all be placed on one map is much better at acheiving this than a sandbox with 10 dual mode weap where most maps have 50-80% of the sandbox on map or more.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

@@Kell Of Scots

 

It's not like I'm saying "the Sniper Rifle's alt fire should be a heavy machine gun turret" (two completely different weapons that don't fit together).

 

The difference between a Plasma Launcher and a Plasma Detonator is the stickies detonating automatically or manually. Both modes still fire stickies that eventually blow up. Not a huge difference. I would still consider that one basic weapon.

Share this post


Link to post

@@Kell Of Scots

 

It's not like I'm saying "the Sniper Rifle's alt fire should be a heavy machine gun turret" (two completely different weapons that don't fit together).

 

The difference between a Plasma Launcher and a Plasma Detonator is the stickies detonating automatically or manually. Both modes still fire stickies that eventually blow up. Not a huge difference. I would still consider that one basic weapon.

 

You dont even need an alt fire mode for that though, just tap trigger for automatic detonation on-hit/on-rest/etc.  Hold then release for manual detonation.  Like the HR grenade launcher.  So we kind of already have that niche filled.

 

I certainly agree with @@Kell Of Scots that only a minority of weapons need alt-fire modes.  I dont think anybody in here thinks they should ALL have them, though in our eagerness to come up with new ideas i can see how that would come across.

Share this post


Link to post

That's one item. If everything is OP that means that each weapon would dominate in its own niche. That would've make every weapon uncontestable within its intended range. It would basically be like a hero shooter.

If the utility is done right, that's your equalizer. That's how most of CE's sandbox is.

Share this post


Link to post

And we are back to "split fire modes" for weapons again lol. We have come full Halo.

 

Well, while we are all reiterating might as well join in.

 

Split fire modes sounds awesome on paper, in practice it can get muddy and redundant quickly.

 

A few weapons, say 15-20% of the sandbox with dual fire modes is cool, especially when used to give otherwise redundant weaponry a reason to exist (Plasma Pistol and the H4 Boltshot being good examples of that)

 

But when you start to make that a third, half or more, I think it becomes a gimmick, and it makes the weapons of the sandbox less predictable. You are starting to create the potential for what is essentially players having 4 weapons at once.

 

I would much rather have a sandbox filled with standalone weapons appropriately balanced for ease of use with either simple, niche roles (Sniper, Shotgun) highly skillful multi range weapons (GL) or weapons with unique mechanics like the Plasma Launcher that have a lot of apllications to a skillful player, than sandbox filled with weapons with shoehorned split fire modes where one or two modes lack much depth at all (Halo 5). I would still prefer it if they had depth because I think it makes for a better sandbox to have those modes as unique weapons all placed on maps, more to contest and a greater potential for totally unique map weapon sets that can help in crafting a unique experiance. A sandbox with 20 totally unique one fire mode weapons that cannot all be placed on one map is much better at acheiving this than a sandbox with 10 dual mode weap where most maps have 50-80% of the sandbox on map or more.

You definately dont need an alternate fire mode for EVERY weapon. But having a handful of them could potentially countdown on the redundancy.

 

Ideally it would be a healthy mix of weapons that have standard zoom, an secondary function, and a primary function only.

 

I don't think there is a such thing as too many weapons in the sandbox. Because the sandbox supports so many different styles and modes of play. But there should be a small-ish number of weapons that show up on the arena and only after careful consideration of what works on each map as pickups.

 

The more experimental weapons would bones thrown to casual play.

 

PS: the h4 boltshot really wasn't analogous to the PP... It was really a shotgun (a better take on the shotgun). For competive play i'd rather have H4 boltshot than shotties or scattershot.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

You dont even need an alt fire mode for that though, just tap trigger for automatic detonation on-hit/on-rest/etc.  Hold then release for manual detonation.  Like the HR grenade launcher.  So we kind of already have that niche filled.

That implementation would restrict auto detonations to a single sticky. It takes more than one sticky to take out heavy vehicles like Scorpions and Wraiths.

 

That would also reverse the "charge to fire" and "semi auto" mechanics of the Launcher and Detonator respectively. (Plasma Launcher is charge to fire multiple stickies. Plasma Detonator is semi auto. Why should these mechanics be swapped?)

 

Is there a reason I am not seeing for reversing these mechanics?

Share this post


Link to post

But do you see how giving the Spiker the ability to bounce and the ability to stun makes it a powerful weapon in certain circumstances? Not a power weapon per se but something more than just a run of the mill automatic.

 

And I haven't even told you the best part yet. Clicking scope on the Spiker fires a "Clawline" (a grappling hook essentially) that, if it impacts something, quickly pulls you there. It has limited range (think going from ring 1 to ring 2 on sanc maximum) and it has a cool down after use but it does enhance your base movement.

and when ever you melee with it killer clowns pop out and strangle the enemy spartan with balloons. 

Share this post


Link to post

The problem is that the weapon sandbox is largely designed for the campaign, and modern Halo has to accommodate the humans, Covenant, and prometheans with their own suite of weapons. This is bound to lead to redundancy because 343 never figured out a way to make the prometheans fun to fight without duplicating the Covenant weapon archetypes, which are themselves corollaries of the human weapons ever since Halo 2 when Bungie decided they wanted to make Halo a cover shooter (this is legitimately what ex-Halo designer Jamie Griesemer was saying in a GDC talk).

 

Add to this the fact that 343 is afraid to design radically new weapons since, as I said earlier, they watched playtesters neglect those weapons because their functions weren't clear. 343's compensation for this is to stick to basic weapon archetypes and make the weapons horrifically easy to use when they do deviate from this strategy (hydra, splinters, arguably plasma caster). To compensate for this compensation, the core of the sandbox--rifles and autos--are also made much easier so the game isn't overrun by these gimmicks.

 

Obviously the preferred solution is a CE-style sandbox that covers every crucial role (the human weapons) with some additional niche weapons with functions we haven't seen. But likely there will be redundancy, since Halo 6 will have Covenant and prometheans. I think the best way forward is to try to consolidate roles where possible (nix the railgun and turn the binary rifle into a charge-up Call of Duty explosive crossbow) while giving unique traits to less-removable redundancies (nix the tracking and make the suppressor's rounds go "berserk" after a medium distance, glowing brighter and doing more damage, so players are encouraged to close the gap in both campaign and multiplayer). Instead of toggleable fire modes, which could be complicated or just bad, the bullets themselves would behave uniquely. You don't have to think as hard when suggesting alt-fire modes, so they can turn out sort of dumb, but that suppressor idea took me a long time to think up and would be pretty good imo.

 

Actually, the ideal approach would be to craft a combat loop for the prometheans distinct from the Covenant's, so the door would be opened to genuinely new weapons rather than reskins with hopefully well-designed quirks. But I don't see that happening any time soon.

  • Upvote (+1) 8

Share this post


Link to post

The only gun right now with alt fire is the light rifle. The only one I can see in addition to that would be the AR. Auto unscoped, but zoomed in could be single shot

Share this post


Link to post

I'm a stickler for the old ways.  If the weapons sandbox is designed around the campaign, stick to covenant and human weapons only by making the Promethean weapons disintegrate along with the enemy when they get killed.  That would be sweet.  Then they could get rid of all the bad Promethean weapons I hate.  The smaller the weapon sandbox and less redundancy, the better.  There doesn't need to be three types of shotguns.   There doesn't even need to be two...  Like my good friend @@xSociety said, KISS.  

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

That implementation would restrict auto detonations to a single sticky. It takes more than one sticky to take out heavy vehicles like Scorpions and Wraiths.

 

That would also reverse the "charge to fire" and "semi auto" mechanics of the Launcher and Detonator respectively. (Plasma Launcher is charge to fire multiple stickies. Plasma Detonator is semi auto. Why should these mechanics be swapped?)

 

Is there a reason I am not seeing for reversing these mechanics?

 

Yeah, when I think about weapon balancing i dont even consider vehicles. I hate vehicle play.  If thats how the implementation would be, and it would only be in big team and warzone, thats fine.  I wouldn't want something that can surgically shoot multiple stickies in quick succession AND let me air-burst them in Arena. one at a time.

 

I would be ok with an anti-vehicle weapon like that specifically i guess, but dont play that way so don't really care lol.

 

What i want is the standard CE plasma rifle back.  Melt shields, not much health damage.  Slows the player getting hit.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.