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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Guys, just know that 343i might not implement an HCS playlist/different settings for H6. Josh Menke said that the numbers dropped fast and that they didn't get the numbers they thought would happen. It explains the bad match ups with the ranking system in that playlist.

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Guys, just know that 343i might not implement an HCS playlist/different settings for H6. Josh Menke said that the numbers dropped fast and that they didn't get the numbers they thought would happen. It explains the bad match ups with the ranking system in that playlist.

They didn't get the numbers because anyone who actually cared to take Halo seriously before isn't playing Halo now. Not for a lack of trying, anyway.

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So long as they don't plague the definitive experience, I fail to see the problem in having more options.

 

It's literally the same thing as taking them off maps for the sake of competitive play that Halo has done since Halo 3. and I'm not even suggesting that they be default to a map.

I don't like the idea of throwing all this random crap in to the "casual" part of the game. Then making the "real" part of the game.

 

All that does is create one section of the game that becomes full of a disproportionately high amount of good players. This pushes most players in to the "casual" part of the game. This part of the game plays like shit so most people stop playing. The "real" part of the game becomes a sauna so most people quit that too.

 

343 needs to make a good solid halo game that is consistent cross the board . That just wants to be halo game.

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I don't like the idea of throwing all this random crap in to the "casual" part of the game. Then making the "real" part of the game.

All that does is create one section of the game that becomes full of a disproportionately high amount of good players. This pushes most players in to the "casual" part of the game. This part of the game plays like shit so most people stop playing. The "real" part of the game becomes a sauna so most people quit that too.

343 needs to make a good solid halo game that is consistent cross the board . That just wants to be halo game.

I wholeheartedly agree. The only way I could see something like Armor Abilities return is if they were made forge assets. This way, the regular game plays good and normal but six months or a year down the line, they can introduce an action sack playlist with jet packs and shit.

 

The only problem I see with that approach is ego. No developer wants to design things, only to let some random forger have the credit for it when he makes Dino Blasters a year later. There is too much "I MADE THIS. LOOK AT IT. LOVE IT" type attitude going around.

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Why the hell did they make a HCS playlist anyways instead of updating Team Arena? They're making the same mistakes they did in 2011 again ffs. Is it really that hard?

 

Again.

The Aiming was fucked for 17 months.

Yes, Clearly games are hard for 343.

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Again.

The Aiming was fucked for 17 months.

Yes, Clearly games are hard for 343.

 

20 months and counting*

 

 

Nothing has been done about the awful acceleration curves and I still get heavy aim.

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Guys, just know that 343i might not implement an HCS playlist/different settings for H6. Josh Menke said that the numbers dropped fast and that they didn't get the numbers they thought would happen. It explains the bad match ups with the ranking system in that playlist.

I don't care as long as the team arena playlist doesn't have radar or has spartan ability radar,and there are no autos (unless 343 somehow makes autos as skillful as precision weapons in 6.

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Guys, just know that 343i might not implement an HCS playlist/different settings for H6. Josh Menke said that the numbers dropped fast and that they didn't get the numbers they thought would happen. It explains the bad match ups with the ranking system in that playlist.

 

I'd love to know what they were expecting.

 

1. Hardcore playlists have always been among the least populated playlists.

 

2. They know there's an aversion to anything labeled competitive among the casual crowd, and they happily named it the HCS playlist. Hell, HCS is probably an even worse name than Hardcore for population reasons, because many casual players are going to avoid it simply because they don't know what the hell that is.

 

And 3. Instead of simply replacing Team Arena with HCS settings, they kept both playlists, with Team Arena near the top of the list and HCS at the bottom (AND we have a social Skirmish playlist which also offers objective modes).

 

I don't think they would have done anything differently if they were intentionally trying to tank the HCS population. 

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BF3? Lol I grinded that for hours and hours. The BF4 version is decent, but they 343'd it by upscaling it by like 150% for no reason.

 

100+ kill games every game on 360. loved it.

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I have a question pertaining to how we define "Skill Ceiling". I remember a conversation from a while back where we tried to end the semantics around how skill gap terms are used, and we more or less succeeded in defining "Skill floor".

 

From what I remember, skill gap is defined by 3 important parts:

 

1.Baseline- Every player that is currently learning the very basics of the game, such as what button does what, how to aim, basic mechanics, ect. The reason we create a Baseline is to not artificially make the skill gap wider by including players who do not understand the game at a basic level yet.

 

2.Skill Floor- the minimum required knowledge to play the game at a basic level, including how to aim, move and utilize the full controls of a game. I think this is a very clear and elegant definition.

 

3. Skill Ceiling- This term is a little harder to define, but I think I came up with one that somewhat does it justice: The maximum level of gameplay control a player is capable of achieving from utilizing the full mechanics of the game. I'm still a bit iffy on this one, but I think I'm at least very close.

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20 months and counting*

 

 

Nothing has been done about the awful acceleration curves and I still get heavy aim.

 

Remember, fam.

 

Nonetheless, we are actively listening to feedback, and we are always welcome to change. So, if players do feel this strongly about the aim after a few weeks, our teams will without a doubt revisit the sensitivity curves in Halo 5. 

 

I think the thing that will actively piss me off the most about this is how Ghost said they'd revisit it if there were issues. And from day 1 onward there were complaints. And we got silence. On a related note, it actually took someone modding their controller to prove heavy aim exists to get 343i to even acknowledge heavy aim, something that could call the very integrity of every tournament ever hosted for this damn game into question. It took that for them to take any action on an insanely fucking serious issue that could basically be lumped into the "gamebreaking" category. Yunno, not being able to even aim properly, and having it break based on connection and other misc. bullshit. If said person hadn't raised some hell by doing so, would 343i have even put in that bare minimum effort to fix it? Lol, doubt it. Wow. I'm back to reiterating old points on Beyond. I fucking love this place. It's just Vent Central. Super cathartic. Love you guys.

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Guys, just know that 343i might not implement an HCS playlist/different settings for H6. Josh Menke said that the numbers dropped fast and that they didn't get the numbers they thought would happen. It explains the bad match ups with the ranking system in that playlist.

This is because they waited until the population was in the shitter before making the move.

 

If the game launched with the proper playlists, it never would have been an issue. The HCS population wouldn't have been nearly as big as the combined team Arena was, but it would've been large enough to let high level players reliably get good matches.

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I have a question pertaining to how we define "Skill Ceiling". I remember a conversation from a while back where we tried to end the semantics around how skill gap terms are used, and we more or less succeeded in defining "Skill floor".

 

From what I remember, skill gap is defined by 3 important parts:

 

"3. Skill Ceiling- This term is a little harder to define, but I think I came up with one that somewhat does it justice: The maximum level of gameplay control a player is capable of achieving from utilizing the full mechanics of the game. I'm still a bit iffy on this one, but I think I'm at least very close".

How's this?

 

Skill Ceiling:

 

The highest possible level of skillful play in any given game at which a player may perform at by fully utilizing and manipulating mechanics, bugs, game knowledge and other elements that contribute to the skill gap of the game.

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I have a question pertaining to how we define "Skill Ceiling". I remember a conversation from a while back where we tried to end the semantics around how skill gap terms are used, and we more or less succeeded in defining "Skill floor".

 

From what I remember, skill gap is defined by 3 important parts:

 

1.Baseline- Every player that is currently learning the very basics of the game, such as what button does what, how to aim, basic mechanics, ect. The reason we create a Baseline is to not artificially make the skill gap wider by including players who do not understand the game at a basic level yet.

 

2.Skill Floor- the minimum required knowledge to play the game at a basic level, including how to aim, move and utilize the full controls of a game. I think this is a very clear and elegant definition.

 

3. Skill Ceiling- This term is a little harder to define, but I think I came up with one that somewhat does it justice: The maximum level of gameplay control a player is capable of achieving from utilizing the full mechanics of the game. I'm still a bit iffy on this one, but I think I'm at least very close.

 

Skill Ceiling is impossible to define because throughout the lifetime of a game, new things are always being discovered that change and push the meta further (and inherently increase the skill ceiling). Trying to build the notion of a skillgap through that metric is impossible, since it is inherently an infinite gap (we will never know the full extent of a games skill ceiling as evidenced by old games that are still evolving and advancing like CE and Melee).

 

The definition for Skill Floor should be less focused on proper control manipulation and more focused on how to properly play the game. As a side note, Halo has NEVER been designed with a clear cut route in how to learn the fundamentals of proper Halo team gameplay. Neither community nor developer have ever designed a tutorial or training mode that teaches players how to isolate, work as a team, or collapse on an objective. It's one of the most frustrating things I've personally encountered about this franchise and I would say has been detrimental to the road of evolving from a casual to a hardcore player for an incredibly long time.

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IS there a skill couch? Perhaps a skill desk or table. Maybe even a skill lamp

 

Yes, the skill couch is where i sit when i play. The skill desk/table is where is set my TV and the skill lamp lights up the room while I pillage people.

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I like the sound of this theoretical game type. What do you think?

 

Name: Conduit

 

Description:

 

Each team has a small area inside of their base that is designated as the "Charging Station". Any player who stands inside this charging station for five seconds is turned into a "Conduit". Becoming a conduit has no effect on the player EXCEPT, this player can now go activate one of the many Interactive Map Elements located throughout the map. Once the Conduit activates an Interactive Map Element, he loses his "charged" status and returns to being a normal player, no longer able to active Interactive Map Elements (unless he returns to a charging station for five seconds and becomes a conduit again).

 

Interactive Map Elements include:

 

-gates

-elevators

-shield doors

-light bridges

-gravity lifts

-man cannons

-teleporters

-auto turrets

-laser arrays

-electromagnetic land mines

 

Once a charging station has successfully turned a player into a Conduit, there is a cooldown period before that station can be used to charge another player. If another player, friend or foe, successfully charges himself at that same station, the previous Conduit loses his charged status.

 

The gametype is scored strictly based on enemy kills so it can be played without the use of any Interactive Map Elements but these automated allies can turn the tide of a battle with their map altering properties. Effectively controlling Interactive Map Elements is like "Map Control 2.0".

 

Summary: Allow players to activate cool shit on the map.

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I like the sound of this theoretical game type. What do you think?

 

Name: Conduit

 

Description:

 

Each team has a small area inside of their base that is designated as the "Charging Station". Any player who stands inside this charging station for five seconds is turned into a "Conduit". Becoming a conduit has no effect on the player EXCEPT, this player can now go activate one of the many Interactive Map Elements located throughout the map. Once the Conduit activates an Interactive Map Element, he looses his "charged" status and returns to being a normal player, no longer able to active Interactive Map Elements (unless he returns to a charging station for five seconds and becomes a conduit again).

 

Interactive Map Elements include:

 

-gates

-elevators

-shield doors

-light bridges

-gravity lifts

-man cannons

-teleporters

-auto turrets

-laser arrays

-electromagnetic land mines

 

Once a charging station has successfully turned a player into a Conduit, there is a cooldown period before that station can be used to charge another player. If another player, friend or foe, successfully charges himself at that same station, the previous Conduit loses his charged status.

 

The gametype is scored strictly based on enemy kills so it can be played without the use of any Interactive Map Elements but these automated allies can turn the tide of a battle with their map altering properties. Effectively controlling IMEs is like "Map Control 2.0".

That sounds convoluted, and the idea of having an objective mode around interactive elements sounds unneccesary.

 

Why not just have interactive map elements/unique map elements (Arcanum, Favyns latest ideas among others) that is designed around an objective gamemodes? That way you don't have to design elements around one game mode, but around a good map that can play multiple different modes, which offers more replay value, rather than one mode which is basically just convoluted Slayer and will only offer one experience?

 

You can get more for your effort designing a cool map with interactive elements and having players use those elements in effective ways based on the game mode.

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That sounds convoluted, and the idea of having an objective mode around interactive elements sounds unneccesary.

Why not just have interactive map elements/unique map elements (Arcanum, Favyns latest ideas among others) that is designed around an objective gamemodes? That way you don't have to design elements around one game mode, but around a good map that can play multiple different modes, which offers more replay value, rather than one mode which is basically just convoluted Slayer and will only offer one experience?

You can get more for your effort designing a cool map with interactive elements and having players use those elements in effective ways based on the game mode.

I'm not familiar with Favyns ideas. I would love to hear them though.

 

There is nothing preventing you from playing flag, assault, oddball, or hill within the confines of the conduit game mode. Does becoming a conduit prevent you from picking up a flag or bomb or ball? No, it doesn't.

 

What about it is convoluted? (Honest question, not trying to be a dick.)

 

I don't understand your last sentence if you wanted to clarify it for me. No disrespect, just want to understand you better.

 

@@Boyo , you got balls kid, I'll give you that

I don't think it's brave to share ideas on a forum. That's what they're here for.
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I'm not familiar with Favyns ideas. I would love to hear them though.

 

There is nothing preventing you from playing flag, assault, oddball, or hill within the confines of the conduit game mode. Does becoming a conduit prevent you from picking up a flag or bomb or ball? No, it doesn't.

 

What about it is convoluted? (Honest question, not trying to be a dick.)

 

I don't understand your last sentence if you wanted to clarify it for me. No disrespect, just want to understand you better.

 

I don't think it's brave to share ideas on a forum. That's what they're here for.

 

This is the video we have been referring to lately:

 

 

its long but watch and pay attention to the whole thing.

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I'm not familiar with Favyns ideas. I would love to hear them though.

 

There is nothing preventing you from playing flag, assault, oddball, or hill within the confines of the conduit game mode. Does becoming a conduit prevent you from picking up a flag or bomb or ball? No, it doesn't.

 

What about it is convoluted? (Honest question, not trying to be a dick.)

 

I don't understand your last sentence if you wanted to clarify it for me. No disrespect, just want to understand you better.

 

I don't think it's brave to share ideas on a forum. That's what they're here for.

Sure, but some forums are less inviting than others... so people tend to gravitate to wherever their ideas will see the least resistance.

 

You soldier on, despite the relatively low chance of your ideas getting any support.

 

Obviously this doesn't require any actual 'bravery', there is no risk in posting. But you are persistent.

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I like the sound of this theoretical game type. What do you think?

 

Name: Conduit

 

Description:

 

Each team has a small area inside of their base that is designated as the "Charging Station". Any player who stands inside this charging station for five seconds is turned into a "Conduit". Becoming a conduit has no effect on the player EXCEPT, this player can now go activate one of the many Interactive Map Elements located throughout the map. Once the Conduit activates an Interactive Map Element, he loses his "charged" status and returns to being a normal player, no longer able to active Interactive Map Elements (unless he returns to a charging station for five seconds and becomes a conduit again).

 

Interactive Map Elements include:

 

-gates

-elevators

-shield doors

-light bridges

-gravity lifts

-man cannons

-teleporters

-auto turrets

-laser arrays

-electromagnetic land mines

 

Once a charging station has successfully turned a player into a Conduit, there is a cooldown period before that station can be used to charge another player. If another player, friend or foe, successfully charges himself at that same station, the previous Conduit loses his charged status.

 

The gametype is scored strictly based on enemy kills so it can be played without the use of any Interactive Map Elements but these automated allies can turn the tide of a battle with their map altering properties. Effectively controlling Interactive Map Elements is like "Map Control 2.0".

 

Summary: Allow players to activate cool shit on the map.

Interactive Map Elements (IMEs) are interesting. However, the implementation of them would have to be done in a way it didn't hinder the skill gap.  Things like you listed seem rather frustrating to deal with for me as a player, as does the way to power up to use these IMEs. I'm sure you know, but 5 seconds is long time in Halo. I think the best IMEs I've seen in a Halo game are the ones in H2. Containment had the ramps to the bases you could open and close, and Relic had the teleporter you could open inside the base. Now these may not be "cool" but they're functional and really effect the game being played (Especially the one on Relic in one bomb or one flag). Blocking routes with laser/shield walls would be neat in a gamemode like Invasion where a team could go press a button to open a route to help with flanks etc. like on Relic. Auto turrets should not ever have a place in a shooter. Especially in one like Halo where as it stands currently teamshot is king.

 

If you want to enable the player to mess with IMEs simply make them either hills to control while contested to trigger them, or switches that can be activated without having to be in the same spot for more than a second. Anything else generally slows down gameplay and keeps players out of the action for far too long.

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