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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I think we are getting to a point where folks are talking past each other.

 

NO ONE is saying Halo2 was successful because of horrible starting weapons that lead to snowball matches at every skill level until it was patched. It was successful, in part because mechanics were streamlined to appeal to a wide audience. And also, in part, because the sandbox and toolset was flexible enough to entertain disparate groups of people. and as that toolset grew, so did the franchises popularity.

 

I love competitive Halo, but it's impact on the overall growth of the franchise is minuscule incomparison to the features aimed at folks who don't play competitively.

 

Sure H2 and CE launches aren't exactly an apples 2 apples comparison due to various factors, but are you really willing to dismiss the sales impact of designing a game such that it's much easier to pick up and find success? It's no secret why Bungie streamlined every single mechanical action in the game.

 

Now, Let's talk about what we do know. Prior to H5, Every game since CE has had playlists that were ranked with hardcore settings, playlists that were ranked with standard settings (radar, autos etc), and playlists that were unranked with standard settings.

 

And EVERY SINGLE TIME, the popularity hierarchy was Social>Ranked Standard> Hardcore and hardcore wasn't even close to being as popular as any of the ranked playlists (and there have been some shitty ranked playlists). MLG playlists were ghost town compared to Ranked Slayer.

 

The fact is for most of the people that play halo, competitive does not equal fun. And collecting $ from those people is a vital part of the business. Without them there is no Halo to make a competitive game out of.

 

I also think there are some semantics issues at play surrounding the terms fair, balanced, and competitive:

 

A game mode can be be fair and "balanced" without being a shining example of competitive viability. H5 Auto starts are not unfair. We consider it unbalanced because the competitive community has decided that the difficulty:lethality ratio is the unit of measure by which balance should be measured. When it comes to competitive viability, there's no question- THAT'S how balance should be measured.

 

But if you talk to people who don't share competitive sensibilities they view ideal balance differently. Rather than spoils going to the most skilled, they are happy to see them go to the most opportunistic- even if that opportunity Is afforded by simply having the better gun for the given situation. And that's their perogative, that's what they see as fun. But there's no question, it's not competitive.

 

It's the same thing with radar.

 

The idea that the opinions of the largest group of people spending money on this game shouldn't be respected is terrible business .

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I have started play more Firefight and I think it is pretty fun. But how is it possible that I see teammates using Ghosts when only REQ level 2 have been reached? This happened on Urban today and with so many crawlers he reached over 100 kills before we got to level 3.

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I have started play more Firefight and I think it is pretty fun. But how is it possible that I see teammates using Ghosts when only REQ level 2 have been reached? This happened on Urban today and with so many crawlers he reached over 100 kills before we got to level 3.

What level are the common random vehicle reqs?

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Random REQ's are level 3. Only thing I can think of is maybe he killed a lot of enemies and it gave him level 3 before everyone else, or he killed an enemy that was using a Ghost and it was still drivable.

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I have started play more Firefight and I think it is pretty fun. But how is it possible that I see teammates using Ghosts when only REQ level 2 have been reached? This happened on Urban today and with so many crawlers he reached over 100 kills before we got to level 3.

REQ levels aren't synced in Firefight, it's entirely dependant on your personal performance.

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I have started play more Firefight and I think it is pretty fun. But how is it possible that I see teammates using Ghosts when only REQ level 2 have been reached? This happened on Urban today and with so many crawlers he reached over 100 kills before we got to level 3.

 

 

REQ levels aren't synced in Firefight, it's entirely dependant on your personal performance.

Ooh, git gud scrub! 

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Ooh, git gud scrub! 

:P

 

I think it's just Warzone Assault which is synced, or at least your team mates kills contribute to your REQ level advancing.

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When does the "Proving Grounds" playlist come out today?

We don't know :/

 

Its popped up a few times today but it hasn't worked properly and was promptly pulled down again.

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Is the ranking system broke? I read a post where people were getting Champion ranks after their placement matches when they weren't Champions before.

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I think we are getting to a point where folks are talking past each other.

 

NO ONE is saying Halo2 was successful because of horrible starting weapons that lead to snowball matches at every skill level until it was patched. It was successful, in part because mechanics were streamlined to appeal to a wide audience. And also, in part, because the sandbox and toolset was flexible enough to entertain disparate groups of people. and as that toolset grew, so did the franchises popularity.

 

I love competitive Halo, but it's impact on the overall growth of the franchise is minuscule incomparison to the features aimed at folks who don't play competitively.

 

Sure H2 and CE launches aren't exactly an apples 2 apples comparison due to various factors, but are you really willing to dismiss the sales impact of designing a game such that it's much easier to pick up and find success? It's no secret why Bungie streamlined every single mechanical action in the game.

 

Now, Let's talk about what we do know. Prior to H5, Every game since CE has had playlists that were ranked with hardcore settings, playlists that were ranked with standard settings (radar, autos etc), and playlists that were unranked with standard settings.

 

And EVERY SINGLE TIME, the popularity hierarchy was Social>Ranked Standard> Hardcore and hardcore wasn't even close to being as popular as any of the ranked playlists (and there have been some shitty ranked playlists). MLG playlists were ghost town compared to Ranked Slayer.

 

The fact is for most of the people that play halo, competitive does not equal fun. And collecting $ from those people is a vital part of the business. Without them there is no Halo to make a competitive game out of.

 

I also think there are some semantics issues at play surrounding the terms fair, balanced, and competitive:

 

A game mode can be be fair and "balanced" without being a shining example of competitive viability. H5 Auto starts are not unfair. We consider it unbalanced because the competitive community has decided that the difficulty:lethality ratio is the unit of measure by which balance should be measured. When it comes to competitive viability, there's no question- THAT'S how balance should be measured.

 

But if you talk to people who don't share competitive sensibilities they view ideal balance differently. Rather than spoils going to the most skilled, they are happy to see them go to the most opportunistic- even if that opportunity Is afforded by simply having the better gun for the given situation. And that's their perogative, that's what they see as fun. But there's no question, it's not competitive.

 

It's the same thing with radar.

 

The idea that the opinions of the largest group of people spending money on this game shouldn't be respected is terrible business .

With regards to your comment about MLG playlist not having many players compared to other ranked playlists, most ranked playlists had more players, but in its peak I saw the Halo 3 MLG playlist top out around 10k players which is probably Halo 5's total population lol

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REQ levels aren't synced in Firefight, it's entirely dependant on your personal performance.

Ok, thanks, that makes sense. 90% of the games I am the first one in the Ghost and I am always on top 2 the first round.

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With regards to your comment about MLG playlist not having many players compared to other ranked playlists, most ranked playlists had more players, but in its peak I saw the Halo 3 MLG playlist top out around 10k players which is probably Halo 5's total population lol

Not likely.

 

H3 showed unique users per 24hrs. So what you saw was 10k different accounts logging into the MLG playlist per day.

 

H5's population isn't all that impressive. But at worst it's peaking at like 10k online at once. The total unique users per day is well over that.

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Nah, i like MW, MW2, Black ops 1 and 2 quite a bit. the rest are anywhere from "meh" to "bleggggggghhhhcaaa" (thats vomit btw).

MW1 and MW2 were actually pretty good.

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Not likely.

 

H3 showed unique users per 24hrs. So what you saw was 10k different accounts logging into the MLG playlist per day.

 

H5's population isn't all that impressive. But at worst it's peaking at like 10k online at once. The total unique users per day is well over that.

H3 playlist showed current players.

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H3 playlist showed current players.

I think it was Bungie.net that only showed 24 hours.

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I think it was Bungie.net that only showed 24 hours.

Yup.

 

Main menu in H3 showed the 24 hour peak. Each playlist however had live counts

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Super pumped to get off work and to grind this new superior radar list and........nothing.

I feel your pain.

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This game plays like such utter dogshit once you hit onyx I don't know what to say.  Played nothing but onyx and champ in doubles tonight and the amount of stupid shit is fucking mind boggling. I don't feel like I'm being outplayed I feel like I'm being outbullshit on every death. Who can abuse the broken fucking thruster to swap teammates out to clean up for the shitty pistol and AR snipe me.  God fuck everything about this game.

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This game plays like such utter dogshit once you hit onyx I don't know what to say. Played nothing but onyx and champ in doubles tonight and the amount of stupid shit is fucking mind boggling. I don't feel like I'm being outplayed I feel like I'm being outbullshit on every death. Who can abuse the broken fucking thruster to swap teammates out to clean up for the shitty pistol and AR snipe me. God fuck everything about this game.

LOL I only touch Infection and WZFF Heroic. About the only way I can play the game without getting an aneurism. Can't even be bothered to play H5 right now anyways. I'm doing an OG Halo marathon.

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why do we all care about this dying franchise so much  :mj:

 

Imagine if someone took the Mona Lisa, changed it, then spent the next 6 years claiming it was better than the original, when all the fans of the original said otherwise, and were told to just "adapt" by the fans of the new ones, and that it was old and needed to change. Fans of the OG Mona Lisa since the original suddenly have something completely different to what they fell in love, and are thrown aside.

 

The painter then decides to give the original fans something, but its not what they wanted, and its a total POS ripoff that looks nothing like the

original, then the painter goes silent for 3 years while the OG Mona lisa fans get angrier and angrier, demanding an explanation. The painter then mentions it once very blue moon with the same generic comment about "how they are talking about it"

 

Meanwhile, an even newer updated Mona Lisa is released by the same artist, announcing it will be continually updated, while POS Ripoff will not be affected and the problem will be continued to work on.

 

Fast forward 2 years, and none of whats said happened, and the OG Fans are still waiting for the explanation, while still getting shafted on by the fuckwit new fans of the "modern mona lisa " who've never ever seen or been near the original, and dont have a fucking clue what they are on about.

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This game plays like such utter dogshit once you hit onyx I don't know what to say.  Played nothing but onyx and champ in doubles tonight and the amount of stupid shit is fucking mind boggling. I don't feel like I'm being outplayed I feel like I'm being outbullshit on every death. Who can abuse the broken fucking thruster to swap teammates out to clean up for the shitty pistol and AR snipe me.  God fuck everything about this game.

I mean... this post is probably an overreaction. There is an abundance of what I would deem degenerate gameplay in H5 though. Crouching in random corners, a lot of easy automatics, awkward map geometry leading to some really awkward encounters, poor weapon placements, and finally extremely powerful and easy power weapons. Depending on who you match and how much they really want to win you'll probably be subjected to a lot of bullshit. It happens a lot to players who are used to playing competitive settings over the years. You'll push out and try to get good positioning and angles but in the end you're putting yourself in a position to need to out skill someone should they catch you coming. The "adapted" players though? A lot of crouching memes, autos, and stagnant gameplay. The objective is to never put yourself in a position that requires you to actually out skill someone but rather to out play them before they even turn the corner. Its smart but its not the peak of competitive gameplay and there's a reason we traditionally remove as many of those crutches and opportunities as we can in competitive settings. It was always this way though even in H3 when you played some of that default Guardian with a radar, hammer, etc. I think the gameplay is shit tier but its always been this way. We just don't have a playlist to retreat to anymore to avoid all of that crap.

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