Jump to content
CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Recommended Posts

Not quite sure I thoroughly understand your thoughts on the H5 Magnum though. It feels mostly like the Reach DMR with no bloom to me, which is not the worst thing, IMO.

 

I'd say the gist of it is that online, at least with the latency I tend to get in games, battles with it sometimes ending up feeling like CE magnum battles, where you're leading or adjusting shots based off of strafe direction, rather than just "center mass, pull trigger, one shot, aim at head, pull trigger".  

 

CE's pistol combined with the bullet magnetism model made for this sort of multi-layered aim approach.  You're not just aiming at the player, you're aiming at the point where the bullet, when bullet magnetism is taken into account, is going to hit the point the player will be some future number of frames from the time you fire.  It's why (at least for me), the best way to hit a three shot in CE is to body the first two shots, and then pull the aimer up such that the head lays on the bottom of the reticle, so that the only place the magnetism can pull the bullet is into the head (with a bit of leading taken into account as well). 

 

There are times where I get the same feeling from the H5 magnum, specifically the need for leading, not the headshot concept.  For me if I'm not directly dead center on the face, I feel like the H5 magnum shots are all but random once they're one shot.

Share this post


Link to post

Great post. Thank you for persevering!

 

It's a shame you didn't get to play the v7 or GoldPro settings in Reach with the no-bloom DMR. I think that does a better job of what you're getting at here than the H5 magnum. It had better range, and it wasn't outclassed by 4 other redundant weapons in the sandbox.

 

That's why I want a Recon DMR as a starting weapon. It's range is kept in check so cross mapping isn't too easy, and it's skinned as a rifle already so sandbox designers can't just go over the magnum's head and design a better, non-starting weapon rifle like they did in H5. All they could do is make alternative rifles with very different traits, which is a good thing.

 

Now, I wouldn't just take the Recon DMR as is. I'd shorten the unscoped RRR a bit and significantly reduce the magnetism and suction-cup like sticky aim. Then I'd make it projectile and 4sk. I feel like that would give us an H1 style utility weapon we both want, with a skin that people can respect as the main weapon (none of this "it's a sidearm" waypoint bullshit), and no room for the sandbox team to box it out with redundant weapons.

 

 

I get the logic for wanting a utility rifle for context purposes, but in my opinion having a small and simple weapon like a Magnum as the utility weapon is a really cool thing to have ("Arena-esque"). It's some really cool imagery when the actual potential of a weapon is greater than the perceived strength. It's why I like the Gunfighter so much. Small, simple, difficult, but has a ridiculously high potential.

 

The concept of "going over the Magnum's head" is easily avoidable with more niche roles/traits for weapons (even rifles) and a less saturated sandbox.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

It's almost time to start that H6 hype train 

Speaking of this, does anyone know if Josh Holmes replacement (forgot his name) ever made an account here yet?

Share this post


Link to post

I'm getting a new laptop with the words "Gaming" in the title, am I joining the pc gamer crew.

 

Laptop? :(

 

 

Desktop would be better

Share this post


Link to post

Speaking of this, does anyone know if Josh Holmes replacement (forgot his name) ever made an account here yet?

 

Chris Lee ?

Share this post


Link to post

I'd say the gist of it is that online, at least with the latency I tend to get in games, battles with it sometimes ending up feeling like CE magnum battles, where you're leading or adjusting shots based off of strafe direction, rather than just "center mass, pull trigger, one shot, aim at head, pull trigger".

 

CE's pistol combined with the bullet magnetism model made for this sort of multi-layered aim approach. You're not just aiming at the player, you're aiming at the point where the bullet, when bullet magnetism is taken into account, is going to hit the point the player will be some future number of frames from the time you fire. It's why (at least for me), the best way to hit a three shot in CE is to body the first two shots, and then pull the aimer up such that the head lays on the bottom of the reticle, so that the only place the magnetism can pull the bullet is into the head (with a bit of leading taken into account as well).

 

There are times where I get the same feeling from the H5 magnum, specifically the need for leading, not the headshot concept. For me if I'm not directly dead center on the face, I feel like the H5 magnum shots are all but random once they're one shot.

 

Aaahhhh, I see what you mean now. Thanks for clarifying for me.

 

I actually kinda have that exact same 'lead the magnetism' feeling sometimes. But I often attribute it to the H5 aiming issues.

 

That feeling of losing all aim assist on shieldless targets is the most frustrating part of it.

 

Otherwise, I think that the weapon would still behave more like the Zero Bloom DMR from Reach.

Share this post


Link to post

Guaranteed he thinks I was talking about default bloom DMR and not v7. I would also wager he hasn't played reach since Q1 2011.

No, obviously I was considering it to be NBNS settings Reach. Nothing wrong with the DMR in those settings but if you think Halo Reach had a higher skill gap than Halo 3 MLG there is just a clear bias and I can't argue around that.

  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

No, obviously I was considering it to be NBNS settings Reach. Nothing wrong with the DMR in those settings but if you think Halo Reach had a higher skill gap than Halo 3 MLG there is just a clear bias and I can't argue around that.

 

So someone that doesn't agree with you is automatically biased and not worth arguing with?  I think you are missing the point of The Internet ;)  

 

The argument i read (and responded to earlier) was speaking specifically about the BR vs DMR, not the game as a whole. I think the NBNS DMR is a better and more skillful weapon than the H3 BR.  Less randomness, no partial credit, appropriately sized hit boxes.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Laptop? :(

 

 

Desktop would be better

 

Waiting for the Ryzen processors to launch would have been better.

Share this post


Link to post

I get the logic for wanting a utility rifle for context purposes, but in my opinion having a small and simple weapon like a Magnum as the utility weapon is a really cool thing to have ("Arena-esque"). It's some really cool imagery when the actual potential of a weapon is greater than the perceived strength. It's why I like the Gunfighter so much. Small, simple, difficult, but has a ridiculously high potential.

 

The concept of "going over the Magnum's head" is easily avoidable with more niche roles/traits for weapons (even rifles) and a less saturated sandbox.

Every time I see Reddit/Waypoint kids (henceforth referred to as Weddits) argue for the current strength of the AR over the pistol "because an assault rifle *should* beat a pistol", after I'm done screaming inside of my skull, I silently wish the pistol was just skinned as a rifle. I hate that argument, and I feel like a lot of the sentiments surrounding starting weapons in the casual community would be better if the starting weapons were DMR/AR from the start.

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

giphy.gif

 

better off jumping

 

- Arm Flailing

- Skinny Jeans

- Dirty water

- 25 degree angle of entry

- water up nose

 

+/- not sure if dead?

 

+ jumping from train.

+ made into internet gif

 

dive score: 3/10

meme score: 7/10

  • Upvote (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

No, obviously I was considering it to be NBNS settings Reach. Nothing wrong with the DMR in those settings but if you think Halo Reach had a higher skill gap than Halo 3 MLG there is just a clear bias and I can't argue around that.

Did you play v7? How could you NOT think that? You spawn with a single shot weapon that can actually kill people across the map. That alone makes it better. Not to mention a working weapon spawn system, the grenade launcher, jet pack as a pickup which I thought was great, and rockets that don't eat butthole.

 

As for negatives we have hitscan utility, which is offset by singleshot and kill potential

An easier sniper. Keep in mind that a ZB DMR is a MUCH bigger threat to a sniper than H3's BR.

A shitty overshield.

Grey maps. Because Onslaught and Amplified were such beauties. Also this doesn't affect gameplay.

Penance was slow as shit. Should have had a 1 min camo and jet pack at blue flag.

No more instasplodes :(

 

To me the difference in the starting weapon alone is enough for me to rate v7 Reach over v8 H3, but it had plenty more going for it. At the very least it's debatable, so I'm not sure how you can just write it off like I'm crazy, unless you haven't actually played it since we got rid of sprint, bloom and evade.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

So someone that doesn't agree with you is automatically biased and not worth arguing with?  I think you are missing the point of The Internet ;)

 

The argument i read (and responded to earlier) was speaking specifically about the BR vs DMR, not the game as a whole. I think the NBNS DMR is a better and more skillful weapon than the H3 BR.  Less randomness, no partial credit, appropriately sized hit boxes.

No that is not the case at all, we already laid out our arguments. If someone was arguing that Halo 4 had a higher skill gap than Halo 1 what is there to argue about? Yes it was originally about starting weapons or the BR in Halo 6 hypothetically but it evolved into talking about individual games and their skill gaps. 

 

I've already conceded that Halo 1 and 2 have higher skill gaps than Halo 3, but my argument is that Halo 3's skill gap is much closer to those two than people here seem to judge or project. It's very clear to me that H1>H2>H3>Reach NBNS> ---here is where it gets murky but H5 or H2A > H4.

 

The only argument I see is the randomness of the spread and the fact that registration is poor at long ranges (it's not hitscan). A BR fight in Halo 3 is more skilled than Reach, and it's clearly more skilled than Halo 2 when you cannot double/quad shot. Yes....that is unique to the H2 BR, but it's also a glitch that is unintentional and isn't really intrinsic to the gun itself, on top of this I am conceding H2's skill gap regardless. 

 

This happened before and I am not going to change anyone's mind and the arguments I see are not going to change my mind either.

 

Which Halo game requires the most skill for sniping? Halo 3. Other than Halo 1, which game requires the most skill to win BR fights without button glitches? I would argue Halo 3. I'm not sure in what universe Halo Reach has a higher skill gap than Halo 3, it's baffling to me. 

  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Every time I see Reddit/Waypoint kids (henceforth referred to as Weddits) argue for the current strength of the AR over the pistol "because an assault rifle *should* beat a pistol", after I'm done screaming inside of my skull, I silently wish the pistol was just skinned as a rifle. I hate that argument, and I feel like a lot of the sentiments surrounding starting weapons in the casual community would be better if the starting weapons were DMR/AR from the start.

The AR should instead be the SMG. Because then this time the auto is a 'sidearm'. Funny I don't remember any complaints about the SMG being weak in H2, only that the BR was 'too easy'.

 

Lol

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Did you play v7? How could you NOT think that? You spawn with a single shot weapon that can actually kill people across the map. That alone makes it better. Not to mention a working weapon spawn system, the grenade launcher, jet pack as a pickup which I thought was great, and rockets that don't eat butthole.

 

As for negatives we have hitscan utility, which is offset by singleshot and kill potential

An easier sniper. Keep in mind that a ZB DMR is a MUCH bigger threat to a sniper than H3's BR.

A shitty overshield.

Grey maps. Because Onslaught and Amplified were such beauties. Also this doesn't affect gameplay.

Penance was slow as shit. Should have had a 1 min camo and jet pack at blue flag.

No more instasplodes :(

 

To me the difference in the starting weapon alone is enough for me to rate v7 Reach over v8 H3, but it had plenty more going for it. At the very least it's debatable, so I'm not sure how you can just write it off like I'm crazy, unless you haven't actually played it since we got rid of sprint, bloom and evade.

 

It's clear that you have a preferential bias for Reach and I have a bias towards Halo 3. I don't consider being able to scope in and cross map enemies essential to the skill gap. Also the Halo 5 pistol, despite being hitscan and the game having huge hitboxes, is not necessarily effective from the distances we are holding the H3 BR to. 

 

We definitely agree on other ideas, and I agree with a lot of things here, but I cannot see how Reach NBNS is in the same league as Halo 3 MLG settings, so that is why I say we can agree to disagree. Also you cite the rockets in Reach as a positive? They were the most overpowered rockets in the entire series, I thought they were a negative personally.

  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

On the topic of projectile weapons: I could honestly take it or leave it on the starting weapon. If a weapon does fire projectiles, I want them to be easily visible so you can accurately judge where they land.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

Did you play v7? How could you NOT think that? You spawn with a single shot weapon that can actually kill people across the map. That alone makes it better. Not to mention a working weapon spawn system, the grenade launcher, jet pack as a pickup which I thought was great, and rockets that don't eat butthole.

 

As for negatives we have hitscan utility, which is offset by singleshot and kill potential

An easier sniper. Keep in mind that a ZB DMR is a MUCH bigger threat to a sniper than H3's BR.

A shitty overshield.

Grey maps. Because Onslaught and Amplified were such beauties. Also this doesn't affect gameplay.

Penance was slow as shit. Should have had a 1 min camo and jet pack at blue flag.

No more instasplodes :(

 

To me the difference in the starting weapon alone is enough for me to rate v7 Reach over v8 H3, but it had plenty more going for it. At the very least it's debatable, so I'm not sure how you can just write it off like I'm crazy, unless you haven't actually played it since we got rid of sprint, bloom and evade.

V7 was still slow and clunky. There was no fixing reach movement.

 

And it suffered from horrid maps. Either maps that were scaled for sprint or shit tins of awful, grey forge maps that went for that stupid amp/onslaught type gameplay.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I have no bias against Halo 3. I've played every Halo for their entire lifespan and found a lot of joy in ALL of them. I put 3 years into that game, thousands of games, watched EVERY tournament for it, I even reffed the 08 season with MLG. I love MLG H3. But time and perspective have not been kind to that game.

 

I'm one of the most objective critics of the Halo series on this site. I give credit where credit is due. The problem is that, comparatively, H3 doesn't deserve a lot of credit. And a lot of competitive Halo fans came in during H3 and have a soft spot for it, and overlook a lot of its shortcomings, or in your case view them as positives. The truth is that it was a relatively shallow game that did more to disempower the individual than almost any game in the series.

  • Upvote (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.