Jump to content
CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Recommended Posts

Anyway, with that team of relatively low onyx and a diamond we match champ 120 something in arena and high onyxs today, not a huge problem...lost but had a close game. Prior we have matched 3 champs on the same team, beat a high ranked ~20s champ and a team with two champs. It's just the principle here. There is no equality. Why should my team with an average CSR of ~1700 ish and a diamond ranked player be matching a team with an average rating of ~3000 plus or high 2000s AND not be able to match the equivalent discrepancy downwards in the spectrum....like 2 plats and 2 diamonds? 3 diamonds and a plat? Idk whatever it equals out to be. 

 

 

1. The are no party restrictions which sucks, but Menke (the guy that made the ranking system) says he's working on a solution

2. This game's population is just abnormally low. 20k or something on a good day. Even Reach had more the last time I played. So yeah, it's gonna be hard to find matching opponents in a timely fashion.

Share this post


Link to post

This and the hidden MMR which certainly still exists in social/everywhere, is another major reason why this game is just not fun. It's frustrating, grinding, constantly rotating against sweaty - relatively skilled level competition in conjunction with a game where anyone can kill you because the skill gap is not very high.

You should read Menkes posts on waypoint in the Matchmaking forum. You may know this but you said you were away for a while. Josh Menke is back to fix the rank/mm system. He was explaining that MMR and CSR can have a significant delta, especially at the beginning of seasons. My guess is that with halos lower population and short seasons, this problem is worse.

 

Having a matching rank and visible rank that are independent doesnt make any sense to me, so hopefully they mitigate that.

 

For social its is definitely a lot more social now. I seem to get games that are tight or blowouts in either direction in pretty even distribution.

Share this post


Link to post

You should read Menkes posts on waypoint in the Matchmaking forum. You may know this but you said you were away for a while. Josh Menke is back to fix the rank/mm system. He was explaining that MMR and CSR can have a significant delta, especially at the beginning of seasons. My guess is that with halos lower population and short seasons, this problem is worse.

 

Having a matching rank and visible rank that are independent doesnt make any sense to me, so hopefully they mitigate that.

 

For social its is definitely a lot more social now. I seem to get games that are tight or blowouts in either direction in pretty even distribution.

Social has been great to me. Especially assault. Easy kills.
  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Social has been great to me. Especially assault.

Yeah I've actually had a lot of surprisingly good matches in there. Obviously some lopsided here and there, but enjoyable nonetheless. 

Share this post


Link to post

The biggest issue in social for me is playing against full parties and it happens a lot. 99% of the time it's not even a close game because the skill matching is so lopsided.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

This seems like the best place for this, I don't really think it needs its own topic.

 

TL:DR; I don't think 0% inner deadzone is the end all be all, I make more wild speculation on why H5 aim feel is trash at times, and I try and bait people into keep talking about what I consider the #1 biggest issue with the game as it stands.

 

With that, LETS BEGIN.

 

So, I recently took a month long hiatus from H5.  It was for a lot of reasons, but mainly because I was finding myself spending more time frustrated than having fun, and when something feels that way, the best thing to do is just cut it out of your life.  In the meantime, I played a LOT of MCC.  Now, I’m a CE fan to the core.  I’ve been at this whole Halo thing since I was 14, the year after CE launched.  However, I’m not married to H1, and I thoroughly enjoy 1-4, and consider myself above average at the series as a whole.

 

However, my time away from H5, and now spending a few days back with it, has once again made its aim issues glaring.  This is not a post harping on H5’s aim though, but rather to make an argument for trying to get the best out of it, or at least try and pull some more intelligent discussion out on the subject, something that I’ve actually noticed recently in this thread, specifically regarding melee.  Please, please, please continue to argue the ins and outs of the mechanic, I really do believe those sorts of conversations are the healthiest thing for the series, and and it makes our community more legitimate as a whole.

 

I want to talk about a few things, but two main topics specifically.  The first is my argument for NOT using a 0% inner dead zone value, and the second will be my speculation on what makes certain aspects of H5’s aim feel so different from the earlier iterations in the series.

 

First off, inner dead zone.  Everyone’s immediate response to dead zones is that the inner should be set to 0%, as that’s more precise, and there’s no reason to do otherwise.  And I understand that, and I think in a perfect theoretical setting, yes, a 0% inner dead zone is the path to best hypothetical aim.  I, however, will be the first to admit that I don’t have god aim.  As I mentioned I’ve been playing Halo fairly regularly for just shy of 15 years now.  I’ve tried lots of different control settings over the years, sensitivities, etc., but I have never been a “smooth” aimer, I’ve always been a twitchy, or a “chunky” aimer, which is probably more accurate.  That is, my aim input is made of multiple discrete movements, often times directly along the X axis and Y axis, not in the diagonal.  I’ve tried to put in the effort to learn that smooth style of aiming, but I can never get the speed needed to go along with it.  

 

The point here is that I’ve got muscle memory built up over years and years that expects a very specific in-game action to correlate with a specific amount of stick deflection.  I’d like to present two diagrams that will help me explain where my issue comes in:

 

MuuMuaG.png

 

Here we see a representation of the aim sticks input based on a 0% dead zone.  I’m not sure it’s truly 0%, but for the sake of argument we’ll assume so.  Given that, a 1/4 of stick deflection, or pushing the stick 25% of the way towards the outside ring would map to the game registering 25% of potential input.  

 

I forget where it was said, but previous Halo iterations did not use 0% dead zone.  If someone remembers where that was claimed, please provide a link.  The default value is 12%, so perhaps they were closer to that.  Let’s look at a diagram that represents something more like that.  In this case I called it 15%, but it isn’t to scale, and is just meant to get the point across:

 

Mpufdk3.png

 

Again, these aren’t exact values or to scale, just something relative to make the argument.  Here 25%, or 1/4 deflection is closer to a game value of 1/8 full potential, or more like 12%.

 

Now, for someone who is just starting out with console FPSs, I imagine going with 0% dead zone is probably your best bet.  However, having had 12-13 years of “thumb training” that expects a certain movement to map to a certain game input change, a change here is quite jarring.  To be fair, PLENTY of people don’t have these issues, and probably have adapted with far more ease than me.  If I’m being 100% honest if we didn’t have all these options, or if no one ever told us about them, I might have been better off.  But that’s not the case, so here we are.

 

So, given all this, someone might argue “AutomatousBeing, just adjust your sensitivity settings!”.  A-ha, well noted good reader, but that gets us into the second half of my argument.  There’s plenty of posts on here, and reddit, and waypoint, and the Xim forums about the acceleration curves.  However, I want to lay out how I feel H5 differs from the older iterations.  Let’s start with another diagram, roughly representing how the older iterations feel to me:

 

PUxZpxN.png

 

Basically, the inner half of the aim stick feels very static, and linear.  If you were to push the stick 25% of the way it would turn X amount, and if you were to push the stick 50% of the way, it would turn 2*X, and the rest of the range would map linearly onto that.  Somewhere past the 50% point we get a bit more turning speed, and somewhere around the last 10% we get a much higher turning speed.  The key here is that the changes are snappy, deliberate, and very “direct” feeling.  I hate to continue using the word linear, but that’s what comes to mind.

 

Now, onto what H5 feels like to me.  I keep stressing that feel point because I want to be clear this is a subjective argument, and I’m in no way claiming to be right about this:

 

KeTqtAI.png

 

Let’s start with the middle two values, the 1.0x and the 1.5x, and how they relate to what I have listed as 0.5x in the middle.  There are certain input movements in H5 that feel very right to me, and those tend to be 90 - 180 degree turns where I have to snap on to someone.  I think the stick input deflection value, or the way the input turn correlates with the time spent pressing the stick matches quite well to older Halo values.  

 

However, it’s the inner most section I don’t like, and this is where we get back to my dead zone argument.  H5 target acquisition (that is, spotting someone and then placing your reticle onto them), as well as gun battles are a constant struggle of too much input/not enough input.  I dance this line where I’m either dragging my reticle behind, or I’m throwing the reticle beyond the person.  Now, I’m not entirely certain that this is specifically the handling of aim input, or Halo 5’s reticle magnetism mechanism.  That’s another argument for another post, but the point is that the only thing that truly feels “squirrely” to me in Halo 5 is the aiming that takes place in this area:

 

WA9ebPA.png

 

Again, I don’t know what the core issue is here, magnetism, or handling of aim inputs on the precision scale, but it’s glaring. This is the crux of mechanical Halo skill, it is the key component to a strong pistol/BR, being able to win battles, etc.  

 

I don’t think this post needs to go on much longer.  I think there are a lot of other factors at play in regards to H5’s poor feel, but unfortunately we haven’t had a fully transparent disclosure from 343 about it.  GhostAyame made a post right when the game came out about the team keeping a pulse on the communities thoughts in regards to acceleration curves and aim feel, but aside from the few extra control settings, and an extremely ambiguous update regarding “input latency”, we’ve received little to make me feel that wasn’t an outright falsehood, or just PR speak.  Just to spitball, I have to wonder whether the following things might have ANYTHING to do with game feel, or more specifically engine performance and it’s effect on game feel:

 

- Xbox Accessories App Button Remapping.  I use this on a Xbone S Controller to swap triggers, map 'LB' to 'RB' and map 'B' to Left-stick Click

- The dynamic resolution system

- Different Xbox One hardware iterations

- Which cloud data center your game is running on

- The distance from that cloud data center, i.e., your latency

- The engine’s authorizing of client actions server side, and whether the client awaits that auth before relaying info to the player

- What map you’re currently playing on

- A bug in the model used for magnetism, or how latency affects this.  This is a whole other topic that I've alluded to in other posts, but I always come back to it as a potential issue

- Players' armors.  This is an interesting one, because if you watch textures pop in on certain levels game-start camera pan, it will differ game to game.  The structure on Plaza next to top-mid/camo spawn has a “Warning” sticker on it, and the texture resolution is not the same every game I play on Plaza.  Is the engine sacrificing texture quality because of poly count on different player armors?  Or is my Xbox currently running poorly and it needs to make up performance somewhere?

- On another note, why is it that playing H5 Forge on the PC feels so much crispier than on the Xbox?  Have any pros commented further on the current state of LAN builds and their feel vs H5F?

 

 

That’s enough for now, hopefully someone reads this, it took a bit to write.  I’ve got plenty more I could go on about, but I have to keep these somewhat reasonable if I expect any feedback.

tldr - aiming is still shit

  • Upvote (+1) 5
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Social has been great to me. Especially assault. Easy kills.

All you have to do is be a god at using toggle crouch, shit works like magic

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

The fact that Frankie said they'll be sticking with Halo 5s formula for future titles and refining it makes me want to run myself over. That post on neogaf brought my feelings into a dark place.

Lucky for us, literally everything 343 says is a lie/doesn't actually come true.

 

So. Who knows.

  • Upvote (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

Man that enemy team looks bad. But Goddamn ToggleCrouchGod looks like a legend.

Toggle crouch must fix h5's aiming.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I agree that melee battles in Halo 5 are very bland and I do think having a more in depth melee system would greatly increase the fun factor within these engagements. I've always been a fan of being able to double melee/BXR. I think the idea of removing the lunge effectiveness for certain weapons is interesting, I'll talk with some people

I've always liked how melee works for the A.I. in the games, really... Like the Elites and the Flood, or the Brute Chieftains in Halo 3. Their melee has a bit more range and it's very telegraphed to dodge and punish, but at the same time it doesn't feel too 'easy' to do that either. It has depth to it.

 

They still lunge but it's 'fixed' and it's the same distance each time.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

There is literally (and I use that word correctly) no chance of me buying Halo 6.

 

1. 343 ruined the community with Halo 4.

2. 343 ruined my favourite games of all time with MCC.

3. 343 ruined everything unique and iconic about Halo with Halo 5.

 

There is absolutely zero chance that Halo 6 is going to be good.

 

If they throw it on PC and literally come to Beyond to bow down and kiss the feet of all the CE kids and then proclaim to the Halo community that they cannot make a decent Halo game for the life of them... there might be a chance.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Switched to my avatar by mistake and now I can't switch back. It doesn't even show all my old gamerpics either. Back on 360 we had to pay for them, and now all that content I owned is gone. Microsoft is so shitty man

Share this post


Link to post

Switched to my avatar by mistake and now I can't switch back. It doesn't even show all my old gamerpics either. Back on 360 we had to pay for them, and now all that content I owned is gone. Microsoft is so shitty man

You still have your 360? If you use that you can probably change it back.

 

GG on Fathom last night btw

Share this post


Link to post

There is literally (and I use that word correctly) no chance of me buying Halo 6.

 

1. 343 ruined the community with Halo 4.

2. 343 ruined my favourite games of all time with MCC.

3. 343 ruined everything unique and iconic about Halo with Halo 5.

 

There is absolutely zero chance that Halo 6 is going to be good.

Halo 6 will be good.  I for one hope the people with attitudes and opinions like yours fade away and make room for people who are OK with change.  I think most of the major changes people wanted for Halo 5 will be in 6 as they [343] likely had to make a decision at some point to focus those efforts on Halo 6, or divert enough resources and money back to make them in Halo 5 retroactively.  I think they'd admit H5 had flaws but it damn sure did a good job at bringing back the hype that Bungie, yes BUNGIE, began to kill with Halo Reach and spartan abilities.  I accept your neg's but I won't stop reminding you all there are people on here that actually like where Halo 5 took the series and look forward to the future of it.

  • Downvote (-1) 19

Share this post


Link to post

Man that enemy team looks bad. But Goddamn ToggleCrouchGod looks like a legend.

I fuckin hate you guys. I have halo-PTSD now.

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

I fuckin hate you guys. I have halo-PTSD now.

He could have been SaltiestSphincter33286, at least you didn't get statted on by a default Xbox GT

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

He could have been SaltiestSphincter33286, at least you didn't get statted on by a default Xbox GT

 

At least then i would have known who it was and sent ASCI dick messages during the game haha

Share this post


Link to post

After my long spiel yesterday, I've figured out the key to get the best of the aim in Halo 5.

 

0.5x, 0.5y, 1 Accel.

 

Here's a Fathom Assault with those settings:

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/24d6d52c-6036-47a6-9d08-fbb8932fc7c7/players/automatousbeing?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All

 

I went 44-9, over 60% accuracy, 6 perfects.  

 

That's it guys, it's as easy as that!

 

No lie, I'm gonna try and play these settings for a month.  Because why not, my aim with reasonable settings wasn't getting any better.  Ninja rage clips inbound.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.