Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

[VideoGangsta]

Just343Things. The community has been asking for party restrictions for over a year now. Just don't expect to get one.

We've been asking since 2010

[arglactable]

CE is an exception, not the norm, because the game plays completely differently from the others. Saying that you can't 1 v 2 in "any" Halo is a completely valid statement because when the vast majority of players think of Halo, they're thinking of Halo 2 and up.

 

It's completely valid despite being demonstrably false? Putting "any" in quotes doesn't change that from an ignorant statement to a fact. So you can't generally 1v2 in Halo games with smaller shooting skillgaps and long perfect kill times? Shocker. What does this and what the "majority of Halo players" think of have to do with the fact that you can challenge a 2v1 in a Halo game? Seems like we're going in circles with this red herring. Not that I'm surprised.

[Basu]

Just343Things. The community has been asking for party restrictions for over a year six years now. Just don't expect to get one.

 

ftfy

[cookies4you]

It's completely valid despite being demonstrably false? Putting "any" in quotes doesn't change that from an ignorant statement to a fact. So you can't generally 1v2 in Halo games with smaller shooting skillgaps and long perfect kill times? Shocker. What does this and what the "majority of Halo players" think of have to do with the fact that you can challenge a 2v1 in a Halo game? Seems like we're going in circles with this red herring. Not that I'm surprised.

The point is that one exception does not invalidate 12 years of general consensus, and that it's perfectly forgivable when someone forgets about CE when you consider that its multiplayer following was minuscule compared to Halo 2's and the rest of the series.

 

For example, if someone said "there's no mod support in any Halo", they'd technically be wrong because of Halo PC. However, Halo PC is an exception, not the norm. It might not be completely correct, but the mistake is forgivable because the number of people who've played Halo PC is a fragment of the Halo populace.

 

QuietMan is getting on cubanex's ass for a completely minor thing.

[QuietMan]

The point is that one exception does not invalidate 12 years of general consensus, and that it's perfectly forgivable when someone forgets about CE when you consider that its multiplayer following was minuscule compared to Halo 2's and the rest of the series.

 

For example, if someone said "there's no mod support in any Halo", they'd technically be wrong because of Halo PC. However, Halo PC is an exception, not the norm. It might not be completely correct, but the mistake is forgivable because the number of people who've played Halo PC is a fragment of the Halo populace.

 

QuietMan is getting on cubanex's ass for a completely minor thing.

like I said, remember when Halo had a skill gap. You call Halo C.E. an exception, I call it exceptional.  Because of it's skill gap.  And I'm not about to let someone sit here and try to tell me I can't challenge 1v2 in C.E. with a more successful rate than any other Halo Game because I know it's a damn lie. I don't give a fuck how many people played it or know about it skill gap, it still exist and deserves recognition. And I have the right to reflect upon it with joy just as others have the right to reflect upon team chat pre-party era. 

[FLuFFy]

ftfy

 

ty 

[Mhunterjr]

The point is that one exception does not invalidate 12 years of general consensus, and that it's perfectly forgivable when someone forgets about CE when you consider that its multiplayer following was minuscule compared to Halo 2's and the rest of the series.

 

For example, if someone said "there's no mod support in any Halo", they'd technically be wrong because of Halo PC. However, Halo PC is an exception, not the norm. It might not be completely correct, but the mistake is forgivable because the number of people who've played Halo PC is a fragment of the Halo populace.

 

QuietMan is getting on cubanex's ass for a completely minor thing.

Halo CE is 'A' halo game though.... and it's not some spin off, it's the title that launched the franchise... it's not to be excused as some random blip on the radar... so the comment is flat out wrong...

[Ramirez77]

I don't think cubanex was trying to imply you can't 1v2 in Ce.  It probably just slipped his mind.

 

Y'know, more games really should be like Ce.  Or Counter-Strike.  Or so on.

 

At some point developers just adopted this fallacious reasoning that forced-team-reliance is equivalent to teamwork.  That your game doesn't have teamwork present unless the individual is crippled to the point of relying on their team for every single thing, and that the team should only be as strong as its weakest link. See MOBAs and to a lesser degree class-based shooters. Carrying nine weapons with their own roles was changed to being able to pick two out of nine weapons, and needing your team to pick the other seven.  Being able to find health was changed to needing someone to heal you.   Being able to take out enemies yourself was changed to needing teammates to focus fire on enemies. 

 

Yet even in games that allow the individual to do everything, teamwork is still beneficial to have.  You don't need teamshot, but it provides a moderate advantage.  And even if your teammates aren't aiding you in fights directly they're still blocking off routes and taking out other enemies, reducing the work you have to do yourself.  Teamwork is still an aspect of the game, it's just not a strict requirement.

[EagleBurn]

I have never heard of CE getting less attention. It's always been well respected, even more-so than Halo 2 at times. It was revolutionary game back then. It set the standards for the FPS controller layout on consoles, one of the first games to have a two weapon+grenade setup, the grenade being a separate button and not a switchable weapon was even bold for its time. The on-foot+land vehicles+flying vehicles+open-world maps made for some of the most fun missions there are in gaming, then you slap all of that on a mysterious Halo ring, you got a game that people aren't going to forget. Then you add all the LAN/splitscreen multiplayer on the now iconic maps. Bungie did a lot with that game and it was pretty beloved.

 

God I miss the original trilogy.

[Gobias]

I don't think cubanex was trying to imply you can't 1v2 in Ce. It probably just slipped his mind.

 

Y'know, more games really should be like Ce. Or Counter-Strike. Or so on.

 

At some point developers just adopted this fallacious reasoning that forced-team-reliance is equivalent to teamwork. That your game doesn't have teamwork present unless the individual is crippled to the point of relying on their team for every single thing, and that the team should only be as strong as its weakest link. See MOBAs and to a lesser degree class-based shooters. Carrying nine weapons with their own roles was changed to being able to pick two out of nine weapons, and needing your team to pick the other seven. Being able to find health was changed to needing someone to heal you. Being able to take out enemies yourself was changed to needing teammates to focus fire on enemies.

 

Yet even in games that allow the individual to do everything, teamwork is still beneficial to have. You don't need teamshot, but it provides a moderate advantage. And even if your teammates aren't aiding you in fights directly they're still blocking off routes and taking out other enemies, reducing the work you have to do yourself. Teamwork is still an aspect of the game, it's just not a strict requirement.

I don't think Halo's designers have ever given much thought to teamwork. The reason this series has been infected with random spread, substantial bullet magnetism that takes effect at any range, and needlessly slow kill times is that the core ideals of Halo have been misinterpreted--and for anyone wondering how Halo could ever have a core identity, you must accept that Halo CE is the only true reference point.

 

The core philosophy has been totally inverted in a way that almost makes sense on the surface, but produces contradictions at every turn. If a player started with Halo 3, the odds are that he will oppose faster kill times because they are "oppressive," "don't give you a chance to fight back," and "make it so you can kill people using no skill." The contradiction is obvious because we all [should] know that slower kill times force an oppressive emphasis on teamshooting, which takes demonstrably less combined individual skill, and don't give you a realistic chance of finishing a fight in the first place if your target is in the remote vicinity of a piece of geometry or one of his teammates.

 

The reason for diluted player contributions is similar. Halo CE was designed such that one player could carry his team if he were good enough: skill curve expansion. Subsequent Halo games are designed with the intent that no player could bear responsibility for losing: skill curve compression. Superficially, these concepts may seem equivalent, but the difference becomes apparent when you consider that the biggest fans of Halo CE play 2v2 (heightened individual contributions) and the biggest fans of Halo 4 and 5 (note: those least susceptible to self loathing from cognitive dissonance) play 8v8 or 12v12

[Hitman]

I don't think cubanex was trying to imply you can't 1v2 in Ce.  It probably just slipped his mind.

 

Y'know, more games really should be like Ce.  Or Counter-Strike.  Or so on.

 

At some point developers just adopted this fallacious reasoning that forced-team-reliance is equivalent to teamwork.  That your game doesn't have teamwork present unless the individual is crippled to the point of relying on their team for every single thing, and that the team should only be as strong as its weakest link. See MOBAs and to a lesser degree class-based shooters. Carrying nine weapons with their own roles was changed to being able to pick two out of nine weapons, and needing your team to pick the other seven.  Being able to find health was changed to needing someone to heal you.   Being able to take out enemies yourself was changed to needing teammates to focus fire on enemies. 

 

Yet even in games that allow the individual to do everything, teamwork is still beneficial to have.  You don't need teamshot, but it provides a moderate advantage.  And even if your teammates aren't aiding you in fights directly they're still blocking off routes and taking out other enemies, reducing the work you have to do yourself.  Teamwork is still an aspect of the game, it's just not a strict requirement.

 

The rise of "team-based FPS" directly correlates with the down-fall of high skill ceiling FPS like Quake where one player could literally be untouchable to even a seasoned player. The reason being, nobody wants to play against players that they cant kill and basically accept they are on a lower tier of skill than another player and there is nothing else to blame other than themselves.

 

When I started playing UT4 alpha, it was a jarring experience coming from playing AAA FPS of recent years because my first couple games back I could not get a frag to save my life! I felt like a noob again, I could not find the timing to a shock combo, I could not hit a sniper headshot to save my life, basically I was Flak n00b again!   However, at the same time I relished it because it was an opportunity to learn a new and challenging UT game. I had to re-train my muscle memory, learn to wall-jump/dodge fluently, and re-adjust to the speed of the game. I still am not good at UT4 and always learning and that is okay with me. With others its simply not, they have to be "good" in their mind or have the game lie to them and tell them they are to keep on playing. Reminds me of that video of Fata1ity taking on like 8 gaming media members at once in Q3A who supposedly weren't exactly noobs either and demolishing them. There is no popular FPS you could do that in today. Player autonomy is the key to greater skill,creativity, and freedom in games, and developers have constantly pushed trends to not only control players actions with "on rails" FPS design and animations but reduce the skill-gap by giving players "EZ kill" buttons, randomizing design, and constricting FPS mechanics to a hand-ful of generic ones that offer little depth or room for gameplay creativity. There are a few FPS coming out that will look to reverse that trend but the question is will enough people be willing to leave the comfort of their artificially ego-inflated shooters and learn to play a real competitive FPS again? Alot of people talk about doing so and how they played "X game back in the day" but today sadly their actions speak differently than their words.

[GunRanger]

Christ on a cracker this kid is good:

 

xboxdvr.com/Shotzzy/63ff9bd1-ec9f-45aa-93ef-e3ce1a7a26f8

 

I couldn't even dream of having control over H5's aim like he does. Also, he YY's after almost all nade tosses, does it make any difference in H5? Cancelling animation, lowering time needed for next input, etc.? The grenade animation already seems to not hold up anything, at least just thinking off the top of my head.

Yeah his yy is the most perfect I've seen. Always ready to shoot so quickly

[xSociety]

"Non of the Christian Bale Batman movies told his origin story." 

[NAK]

CE is quite literally the only Halo where that can happen, and the overwhelming majority of Halo players did not play it competitively in any form.

 

You know, complete lack of online multiplayer and all that.

 

I would say that more than 90% of the current halo community isn't even aware how to play CE competitively. It honestly may be closer to 95% as well. The sad truth is most people don't even know what they are missing.

[NavG123]

I would say that more than 90% of the current halo community isn't even aware how to play CE competitively. It honestly may be closer to 95% as well. The sad truth is most people don't even know what they are missing.

Would you say that 5% of the current Halo community has significant experience with competitive CE lans?

 

I'd imagine it's much lower than even 5%. Unless maybe you'd count MCC players.

 

There seems to be a lot of people in other communities who like to qualify their opinion with "As a person who used to play CE" when talking about MP in H5.

[NAK]

Would you say that 5% of the current Halo community has significant experience with competitive CE lans?

 

I'd imagine it's much lower than even 5%. Unless maybe you'd count MCC players.

 

There seems to be a lot of people in other communities who like to qualify their opinion with "As a person who used to play CE" when talking about MP in H5.

 

I agree, if you are counting players who have experience at LANs it is probably less than 1% honestly. Yeah, I would guess ~5% probably have even a basic understand of how it is played. (with spawns, nades etc.)

[TheIcePrincess]

I would say that more than 90% of the current halo community isn't even aware how to play CE competitively. It honestly may be closer to 95% as well. The sad truth is most people don't even know what they are missing.

I know what I'm missing. A dumb overpowered pistol. It shouldn't be a three shot kill. It's a sidearm. It should be weaker. Halo 2 did the pistol right. How is CE even competitive? It takes no skill to 3 shot someone so fast. Killtimes are too fast. It's basically CoD in space.

[wow]

I know what I'm missing. A dumb overpowered pistol. It shouldn't be a three shot kill. It's a sidearm. It should be weaker. Halo 2 did the pistol right. How is CE even competitive? It takes no skill to 3 shot someone so fast. Killtimes are too fast. It's basically CoD in space.

wow that's so offensive to Infinite Warfare, which is actually a CoD in space and the best CoD there ever was.

[Mr Grim]

I know what I'm missing. A dumb overpowered pistol. It shouldn't be a three shot kill. It's a sidearm. It should be weaker. Halo 2 did the pistol right. How is CE even competitive? It takes no skill to 3 shot someone so fast. Killtimes are too fast. It's basically CoD in space.

you forgot to mention that the assault rifle is utterly useless when it SHOULD be one of the best guns in the game. It's a rifle for gods sake!

[Apoll0]

you forgot to mention that the assault rifle is utterly useless when it SHOULD be one of the best guns in the game. It's a rifle for gods sake!

 

Automatic weapons should always do more damage than precision weapons because they fire MORE BULLETS!! DUH!!!

 

-Reiku78

[Hard Way]

I know what I'm missing. A dumb overpowered pistol. It shouldn't be a three shot kill. It's a sidearm. It should be weaker. Halo 2 did the pistol right. How is CE even competitive? It takes no skill to 3 shot someone so fast. Killtimes are too fast. It's basically CoD in space.

You had me going for about 2 horrible seconds.

[wow]

You had me going for about 2 horrible seconds.

you really need to lighten up bro

[QuietMan]

I know what I'm missing. A dumb overpowered pistol. It shouldn't be a three shot kill. It's a sidearm. It should be weaker. Halo 2 did the pistol right. How is CE even competitive? It takes no skill to 3 shot someone so fast. Killtimes are too fast. It's basically CoD in space.

Would you like some slash with that S?

[The Tyco]

Would you like some slash with that S?

https://a4-images.myspacecdn.com/images03/2/ddec1e4d26f94cae963c8c54e9838749/600x600.jpg

[Killmachine]

I know what I'm missing. A dumb overpowered pistol. It shouldn't be a three shot kill. It's a sidearm. It should be weaker. Halo 2 did the pistol right. How is CE even competitive? It takes no skill to 3 shot someone so fast. Killtimes are too fast. It's basically CoD in space.

This is the fourth intentional neg i have ever given

 

You're 3/4 now Kels